• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Activist filmmaker arrested in senator’s office

apdst said:
Does that make it ok?
Click to expand...

...I find it odd that you try so hard to defend what this guy did when it is illegal but flip your lid over what ACORN did because you don't think it was "ok". You lose your credibility as a reasonable adult every single minute you spend on this board.
 
winston53660 said:
Is what happened at ACORN prosecutable?
Click to expand...

There's "open investigations" by the NY AG, CA AG, and Brooklyn DA, but who knows if there's actually anything happening on those fronts.

It's also made more complicated by the fact that O'Keefe, the guy who the individual employees were supposedly trying to help do all these bad things, didn't actually intend to do them himself. That makes it harder to bring charges for a variety of legal reasons.
 
RightinNYC said:
There's "open investigations" by the NY AG, CA AG, and Brooklyn DA, but who knows if there's actually anything happening on those fronts.

It's also made more complicated by the fact that O'Keefe, the guy who the individual employees were supposedly trying to help do all these bad things, didn't actually intend to do them himself. That makes it harder to bring charges for a variety of legal reasons.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I guess if ACRON and or the employees were involved in prostitution it could prosecutable. But I think just giving advice is not with out intent. Basically I can you how to make a pipe bomb.....**** one can learn that off TV.
 
I'm not defending O'Keefe and his buddies if they are found guilty of a serious crime... and it does look like that might be about to happen. However, I have heard thoughtful discussion from local talk radio shows here n New Orleans that suggests that O'Keefe might have walked the fine line between crime and legal investigation. Let's wait to see what comes out of this in court before we condemn him. After all, some of you probably think that O.J. was innocent!
 
winston53660 said:
Thank you, I guess if ACRON and or the employees were involved in prostitution it could prosecutable. But I think just giving advice is not with out intent. Basically I can you how to make a pipe bomb.....**** one can learn that off TV.
Click to expand...

Basically that's the problem. There's no doubt those employees of ACORN should have been fired and certainly an internal investigation needed to be done, but I'm not sure what the "crime" was.

I'm sure the prosecutors are also rethinking this now, not wanting to put this guy on the stand as their star witness.
 
Patterico's Pontifications Law Enforcement Official: No Wiretap Attempt by O’Keefe

Law Enforcement Official: No Wiretap Attempt by O’Keefe

Looks like law enforcement and James O’Keefe’s supporters agree: he did not intend to wiretap Mary Landrieu:
A law enforcement official says the four men arrested for attempting to tamper with the phones in the New Orleans office of Sen. Mary Landrieu (D) were not trying to intercept or wiretap the calls.
Click to expand...

The Washington Post, which this morning claimed otherwise, today had to retract that mistake — a grave error that Andrew Breitbart socked them for last night, and I socked them for this morning. Here is the relevant part of their embarrassing correction:

Earlier versions of this story incorrectly reported that James O’Keefe faced charges in an alleged plot to bug the office of Sen. Mary Landrieu. The charges were related to an alleged plot to tamper with a phone system. The headline incorrectly referred to a plot to bug the phone and a caption incorrectly referred to an alleged wiretap scheme.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

So there was no intent to wiretap. Let’s dispel that idea now. Nobody is claiming he was trying to bug Landrieu. Everyone who compared this to Watergate was wrong, wrong, wrong — and should be embarrassed. Period. The only question now is what he and 3 other men did intend to do. The Government position is that O’Keefe & Company wanted to shut down Landrieu’s phone system:

Instead, the official says, the men, led by conservative videomaker James O’Keefe, wanted to see how her local office staff would respond if the phones were inoperative. They were apparently motivated, the official says, by criticism that when Sen. Landrieu became a big player in the health care debate, people in Louisiana were having a hard time getting through on the phones to register their views. That is, the official says, what led the four men to pull this stunt — to see how the local staffers would react if the phones went out. Would the staff just laugh it off, or would they express great concern that local folks couldn’t get through?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Me, I don’t buy the Government theory. I think Good Lt. has a much better theory. Playing off of my posts’ focus on the allegedly jammed phone lines, Good Lt. spun out a theory that I think makes more sense than anything I have seen:

I am postulating that the group was trying to document (with video camera) that Landrieu’s office had either disconnected or re-routed the phones to deflect incoming calls – hence, why they couldn’t get through. There have been anecdotal reports that Landrieu’s office has received complaints that it has been inaccessible by phone, particularly around the time when she was bought off by the Democrats for the now-infamous Louisiana Purchase.
Click to expand...

I have a related theory that strikes me as even more likely: they came in to “fix” the “jammed” phone lines — expecting to be received by countless staffers saying: “What problem? We haven’t had any jammed phone lines. What are you talking about?”
Click to expand...

Wow.

I guess we'll find out more soon, but that seems like a pretty plausible explanation to me. As noted by Josh Marshall yesterday, there was a huge part of this that didn't make sense:

Beyond the criminal activity and brazenness of the act, one of the questions we were wondering yesterday afternoon about the WingNerd team down in New Orleans was, just what were they thinking? O'Keefe was allegedly using his cell phone to film the attempt to bug Landrieu's office as it happened. And that's not too smart since that amounts to filming your accomplices in the process of committing a felony. And it goes beyond that. Let's say their 'operation' was a complete success. And let's say they got something really juicy off of Sen. Landrieu's tapped phone line. What exactly were they going to do with it? The moment you surface either transcripts of the recordings of any calls, you immediately become the target of a federal investigation.

...

Now, one might speculate that they were going to use the bug to get leads that they would then report out and surface by other means. But, frankly, to put it mildly that does not sound like the James O'Keefe MO. And filming the bugging as it happened definitely suggests they didn't plan on keeping the thing a secret. So again, what were they thinking?
Click to expand...

If they were actually there to wiretap the phones, it would make no sense for them to be videotaping this. However, if they were there to try to prove that the phones had never been jammed, or for one of the other reasons mentioned above, then it would make much more sense.

See why it's a bad idea to accuse people of treason before you know any of the facts?
 
Hatuey said:
...I find it odd that you try so hard to defend what this guy did when it is illegal but flip your lid over what ACORN did because you don't think it was "ok". You lose your credibility as a reasonable adult every single minute you spend on this board.
Click to expand...

Point out where I defended what this guy did. Thanks in advance.
 
RightinNYC said:
Patterico's Pontifications Law Enforcement Official: No Wiretap Attempt by O’Keefe

Law Enforcement Official: No Wiretap Attempt by O’Keefe







Wow.

I guess we'll find out more soon, but that seems like a pretty plausible explanation to me. As noted by Josh Marshall yesterday, there was a huge part of this that didn't make sense:



If they were actually there to wiretap the phones, it would make no sense for them to be videotaping this. However, if they were there to try to prove that the phones had never been jammed, or for one of the other reasons mentioned above, then it would make much more sense.

See why it's a bad idea to accuse people of treason before you know any of the facts?
Click to expand...

Be careful, the Libruls might accuse you of defending the guy.
 
Re: James O’Keefe arrested by FBI

apdst said:
:rofl...Well, here in the real world that isn't how the process works.
Click to expand...

donc said:
Providing they don’t mind hiring an excon. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...
dont ollie north and g gordon liddy get plenty of airtime on their network? I think the problem could run deeper. The senator sits on the homeland security committee.
 
Last edited:
RightinNYC said:
Patterico's Pontifications Law Enforcement Official: No Wiretap Attempt by O’Keefe

Law Enforcement Official: No Wiretap Attempt by O’Keefe


Wow.

I guess we'll find out more soon, but that seems like a pretty plausible explanation to me. As noted by Josh Marshall yesterday, there was a huge part of this that didn't make sense:



If they were actually there to wiretap the phones, it would make no sense for them to be videotaping this. However, if they were there to try to prove that the phones had never been jammed, or for one of the other reasons mentioned above, then it would make much more sense.
Click to expand...

This "defense" sounds like a guy who claims he's writing a book about pedophilia after being caught downloading child porn and hanging out in teen chat rooms.

"I was just doing some investigative journalism." :spin:
 
Glinda said:
This "defense" sounds like a guy who claims he's writing a book about pedophilia after being caught downloading child porn and hanging out in teen chat rooms.

"I was just doing some investigative journalism." :spin:
Click to expand...

Except it's the government's own theory that there was no attempt or intent to wiretap the phones at all.
 
RightinNYC said:
Except it's the government's own theory that there was no attempt or intent to wiretap the phones at all.
Click to expand...

What I have read is that the government gives this to be the initial charges, and that more charges could come. I have also read that the fourth guy they caught had audio recording equipment in his truck. I have also read that 2 of those who were caught have admitted that they were there to wiretap. On the other hand, I have read that this was nothing more than an attempt to manipulate the phones so they could do a funny documentary on them.

So, with all of what I have read, what have I learned? Nothing. LOL. Even if it turns out to be just tampering with phones, though, that itself is a felony that comes with a sentence of up to 10 years in the pen.

The bottom line? Nothing is as it seems at first glance. We the public are still pretty much in the dark, despite all the information we have read and heard, which is conflicting.

A bit of trivia for "Nothing is as it seems": There is a theory still making the rounds that Watergate was not the bugging of the Democratic headquarters, but that they were attempting to remove the bugs because of the Plamondon Supreme Court decision just a few days earlier, which ruled that planting bugs was seriously illegal. You can read more about Pun Plamondon here and more about the case here.They are very entertaining reads.
 
Last edited:
RightinNYC said:
Except it's the government's own theory that there was no attempt or intent to wiretap the phones at all.
Click to expand...
What you have is an anon law enforcement official saying that it wasnt. Nothing actually on the record. The law enforcemnt official could mean anything from FBI to local cop to the kid's father who is the US attorney. Until we know more not much could be ruled in or out. However breitbart should be careful as he could be implicated. O'Keafe was on his payroll.
 
PogueMoran said:
What you have is an anon law enforcement official saying that it wasnt. Nothing actually on the record. The law enforcemnt official could mean anything from FBI to local cop to the kid's father who is the US attorney. Until we know more not much could be ruled in or out. However breitbart should be careful as he could be implicated. O'Keafe was on his payroll.
Click to expand...

Brietbard denies knowledge of what O'Keefe was doing. I think it is safe to say that he won't be implicated.
 
apdst said:
Point out where I defended what this guy did. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

apdst said:
It's going to fun watching the DoJ try to prove that a crime was actually committed here.
Click to expand...

apdst said:
Did they have electronic surveillance devices on their person that would enable them to actually tap a phone? If not, then the government's ability to prove intent is going to seriously hampered.

Actually, this is the only crime that's been committed:

If the government can't prove intent, then O'Keefe is going to allowed to walk with probation, at the most.
Click to expand...

apdst said:
The only thing O'Keefe admitted to was going into Landreau's office dressed a telephone repairman. I haven't seen anywhere that he admitted to trying to tamper with the phone system.
Click to expand...

apdst said:
Well, taping isn't a crime.

They didn't tap the phones. Get over it.
Click to expand...

apdst said:
Only if it's done without someone's knowledge. Other than that, it's called, free speech.
Click to expand...

You are welcome. :2wave:
 
apdst said:
Point out where I defended what this guy did. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

apdst said:
It's going to fun watching the DoJ try to prove that a crime was actually committed here.
Click to expand...

apdst said:
Did they have electronic surveillance devices on their person that would enable them to actually tap a phone? If not, then the government's ability to prove intent is going to seriously hampered.

Actually, this is the only crime that's been committed:

If the government can't prove intent, then O'Keefe is going to allowed to walk with probation, at the most.
Click to expand...

apdst said:
The only thing O'Keefe admitted to was going into Landreau's office dressed a telephone repairman. I haven't seen anywhere that he admitted to trying to tamper with the phone system.
Click to expand...

apdst said:
Well, taping isn't a crime.

They didn't tap the phones. Get over it.
Click to expand...

You are more than welcome. :2wave:
 
danarhea said:
On the other hand, I have read that this was nothing more than an attempt to manipulate the phones so they could do a funny documentary on them.
Click to expand...

These guys aren't in the comedy business dana.
 
Hatuey said:
You are more than welcome. :2wave:
Click to expand...

Not defending him, just calling it like I see it. Surely a law and order Liberal like yourself doesn't want to see a citizen's rights violated and be wrongfully convicted of a crime he didn't commit. Or, is this different?
 
apdst said:
Not defending him, just calling it like I see it.
Click to expand...

Is the main ingredient in gumbo bull****? Because you seem to always be full of gumbo, "blood".

Surely a law and order Liberal like yourself doesn't want to see a citizen's rights violated and be wrongfully convicted of a crime he didn't commit. Or, is this different?
Click to expand...

Alright sparky, let us see how I'll destroy your arguments today. What rights of his have been violated? They were caught entering a federal building under false pretences and tried to tamper with government property. That in and of itself is a felony. No rights have been violated and your dishonesty has once again been exposed. Want to try this again?
 
Hatuey said:
Is the main ingredient in gumbo bull****? Because you seem to always be full of gumbo, "blood".
Click to expand...

Another well thought out mature response. Well done.

Alright sparky, let us see how I'll destroy your arguments today. What rights of his have been violated? They were caught entering a federal building under false pretences and tried to tamper with government property. That in and of itself is a felony. No rights have been violated and your dishonesty has once again been exposed. Want to try this again?
Click to expand...

How can you destroy his argument when the government hasn't even charged him with wire tapping?

I know its tempting but a lynching isn't exactly whats called for here.
 
PogueMoran said:
What you have is an anon law enforcement official saying that it wasnt. Nothing actually on the record. The law enforcemnt official could mean anything from FBI to local cop to the kid's father who is the US attorney. Until we know more not much could be ruled in or out.
Click to expand...

Funnily enough, an "anonymous law enforcement official" was the only source for the claim that the fourth guy had "listening equipment" or that they were there to wiretap. That didn't seem to stop anyone else from reporting it as gospel.

However breitbart should be careful as he could be implicated. O'Keafe was on his payroll.
Click to expand...

What should he be careful about? If he knew something before, he could be implicated whether or not he's careful. If he didn't, then he can't.
 
Looks like that's the official defense:

A lawyer for one of four conservative activists accused of tampering with a Louisiana senator's phones says they hoped to embarrass her over claims her staff ignored calls critical of her stance on health care reform.

J. Garrison Jordan is an attorney for suspect Robert Flanagan. He denies the men sought to disable or wiretap the phones in Sen. Mary Landrieu's office at a federal building in New Orleans.

Jordan said Thursday they were trying to document allegations that Landrieu's staff has been ignoring phone calls about the Democratic senator's health care position.
Click to expand...

ACORN foe James O'Keefe dialing for Landrieu disconnect? | Louisiana Politics & Government - - Louisiana Politics | State Legislature News - NOLA.com

If it turns out that there was no wiretapping equipment and that there's no evidence of any intent beyond this, then I could see the charges being dropped.
 
texmaster said:
Another well thought out mature response. Well done.
Click to expand...

"I just call it as I sees it" - apdst

How can you destroy his argument when the government hasn't even charged him with wire tapping?

I know its tempting but a lynching isn't exactly whats called for here.
Click to expand...

Where did I say it had? They were charged with entering a federal building with purpose to commit a felony. 10 years. End of story.

Phone-tampering case: Prank or political spying? - Yahoo! News

All four men were charged with entering federal property under false pretenses for the purpose of committing a felony, which carries up to 10 years in prison. They were not charged with wiretapping.

Meanwhile, the conservatives who once made O'Keefe their hero for his hidden-camera expose of ACORN distanced themselves from his latest project.
Hannah Giles — who posed as a prostitute for the sting videos, in which ACORN staffers appeared to offer illegal tax advice and support the misuse of public funds — said she was shocked when she heard about O'Keefe's arrest.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom