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Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

Corporations don't have rights because only individuals have rights. The individual people working in a corporation have rights. The corporate entity itself does not.

Sure it does. If you sue a corporation, for instance, it has the same legal rights an individual would.
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

Sure it does. If you sue a corporation, for instance, it has the same legal rights an individual would.

Incorporation can still work in matters of lawsuit without claiming the corporation itself has rights. We can grant certain privileges. But a corporation itself is not an entity which innately possesses rights, only individuals can posses rights.
 
They "made it easier" in the sense that they removed a stupid procedural hurdle that forced companies to funnel money through other organizations in order to have a say.

Before this decision, if GM wanted to speak out on a particular bill or support a candidate during election season, they had to create or join a PAC or 527 (usually with a name like "The Council of American Manufacturers"), fund that organization, and then the organization had to speak in code words, urging the public to "keep issues in mind," to "support American manufacturing," and to "oppose efforts to send manufacturing overseas," while showing their displeasure "with officials who support this bill." Depending on the structure of that organization, it may not have been required to release the sources of its funding.

Now, rather than doing all of that, GM can create an ad that says "We at GM believe that X bill harms American manufacturing and will result in a loss of jobs for Y reason. We ask you to support this congressman who is opposed to the bill." GM's funding for that ad is a matter of public record.

Exactly.

People, you know those goofy ads where they say things like "call Congressman X and tell him you don't want this or that?" Those are just campaign ads that can't come out and say "vote for or against congressman X." They have to say something else to get their message across without triggering the stupid law that assumed that corporations are somehow automatically corrupt when they talk about elections.
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

They overturned a case less than 20 years old.

The Supreme Court essentially declared that corporations, unions, and nonprofits have all the same rights as human beings...which goes against precedent established when Teddy Roosevelt was president. Corporate personhood has traditionally been viewed as a gift government bestows on businesses, and which they therefore have the right to limit.
 
Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down Key Section of McCain-Feingold

As much as the people at dailykos would like to pretend that that was the issue in question in this case, it wasn't. It is, however, a useful tool for distracting people from the fact that the claims of "an end to democracy" are horribly overblown.
i don't read the dailykos. and i'm certainly not trying to distract anyone. it's my belief that all campaigns should be funded by taxpayers, equally.
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

Incorporation can still work in matters of lawsuit without claiming the corporation itself has rights. We can grant certain privileges. But a corporation itself is not an entity which innately possesses rights, only individuals can posses rights.

Apparently not.

In any event, the First Amendment says nothing about persons. It says there can be "no law" restricting freedom of speech. Nothing about rights, just a restriction on government power to restrict speech.
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

Sure we do.

It's not judicial activism when the court affirms the Constitution and rejects 100 years of bad law and precedent.

A) Corporate personhood is not a doctrine enshrined anywhere in the text of the Constitution.
B) Do you understand that "judicial activism" has an actual meaning other than "Supreme Court decisions I personally dislike"? Judicial activism is the willingness to overturn precedent if one disagrees with the precedent. So yes, "rejecting 100 years of bad law and precedent," as you describe it, is a textbook example of judicial activism.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
The ownership of property is one of the most important freedoms an American has. The court has just ruled that said ownership can't be restricted by congress attempting to protect incumbents.

You are aware that the sole purpose of McCain-Feingold was incumbent protection, aren't you?

How is that relevant to anything I wrote? What in the world gave you the impression I support the McCain-Feingold Act?
 
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Which is neither here nor there.

Not quite. It was to highlight that those in charge knew what they were doing. They knew they were supporting their friends in the banking and Wallstreet sectors at the cost of the People; but wanted to pass it so they had to make something up to sell it to us. It shows that the government is already willing to bend to corporation and the aristocracy even at the cost of the People. I don't see how making it easier for corporations to do the same thing will behoove us especially when the individual is still heavily restricted.

They "made it easier" in the sense that they removed a stupid procedural hurdle that forced companies to funnel money through other organizations in order to have a say.

Before this decision, if GM wanted to speak out on a particular bill or support a candidate during election season, they had to create or join a PAC or 527 (usually with a name like "The Council of American Manufacturers"), fund that organization, and then the organization had to speak in code words, urging the public to "keep issues in mind," to "support American manufacturing," and to "oppose efforts to send manufacturing overseas," while showing their displeasure "with officials who support this bill." Depending on the structure of that organization, it may not have been required to release the sources of its funding.

Now, rather than doing all of that, GM can create an ad that says "We at GM believe that X bill harms American manufacturing and will result in a loss of jobs for Y reason. We ask you to support this congressman who is opposed to the bill." GM's funding for that ad is a matter of public record.

Of those two methods, which one sounds more shady and likely to result in a corruption of the electoral process?

The ironic part is that because corporations don't want to be identified as publicly supporting or opposing particular candidates, even after this decision, most of them will still continue to use the former method. We're going to see just as much corporate involvement in future elections, only now the papers and public will blame it all on the SC decision overturning BRCA, when in reality, the problem comes from BRCA itself.

It would be funny if it weren't so infuriating.

In some perfect world we'd maybe see that. But instead of coming out against a bill with public adds imploring us to call congress, I think we'll just see more greed and corruption. Instead, GM can not just funnel money to the pockets of the lawmakers that want it, even if the law could possibly harm the People themselves. The individual is still restricted

That's a problem intrinsic to the corporate form.

Aye, that it is. We've allowed certain rules and regulations to come into place which isolate the CEO and board from the mandates of the true owner. That too should be changed.
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

Apparently not.

In any event, the First Amendment says nothing about persons. It says there can be "no law" restricting freedom of speech. Nothing about rights, just a restriction on government power to restrict speech.

The FCC is government law and regulation which restricts free speech. If we're defining through practice, then apparently so.
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

That is still illegal. This decision did not change that.

A corporation cannot contribute to a campaign using corporate funds. Nor can any foreigner.

This decision is about corporations spending money to speak, or buy ads to speak. They buy ads all the time, now they can do it to talk about politics again.

foreign corporations and multi-national corporations can buy political ads which is the number one campaign expense, they do not have to participate directly, the indirect approach will work just fine
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

A) Corporate personhood is not a doctrine enshrined anywhere in the text of the Constitution.

Nor is freedom of speech only for persons.

B) Do you understand that "judicial activism" has an actual meaning other than "Supreme Court decisions I personally dislike"? Judicial activism is the willingness to overturn precedent if one disagrees with the precedent. So yes, "rejecting 100 years of bad law and precedent," as you describe it, is a textbook example of judicial activism.

Now that I agree with!
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

foreign corporations and multi-national corporations can buy political ads which is the number one campaign expense, they do not have to participate directly, the indirect approach will work just fine

As long as you don't confuse the two.
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

The FCC is government law and regulation which restricts free speech.

But the people own the airwaves, not the broadcasters. We license them to use it. We can put conditions on that if we want to.

What we ought to do is make TV stations give free time for political messages in the public interest so it won't cost so much in the first place and money won't matter as much.
 
How did we come in possession of pieces of the electromagnetic radiation spectrum? Can I own purple? I'll charge exorbitant prices for it and restrict what can be done with purple.
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

As long as you don't confuse the two.

as long as you fully understand the implications and end result......
 
How did we come in possession of pieces of the electromagnetic radiation spectrum? Can I own purple? I'll charge exorbitant prices for it and restrict what can be done with purple.

We own it because it's a public resource and it is limited. If we just let anyone broadcast, there would be nothing but static.

Fine - you can have maroon. Happy?
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

A) Corporate personhood is not a doctrine enshrined anywhere in the text of the Constitution.

Restriction of corporate political activity is not mentioned in the Constitution either.

But there is the Tenth Amendment.

Hence, my argument that Congress does not have the power to restrict corporate political activity is Constitutionally grounded, your assertion that it can is disproven.

B) Do you understand that "judicial activism" has an actual meaning other than "Supreme Court decisions I personally dislike"?

Yes, it means court activity I personally dislike, not you, that isn't allowed by the Constitution. Notice that the court activity has to be unconstitutional or, more specifically, no grounded on the Constitution.

Since the Constitution does not allow Congress to control corporate political activity, the court's announcement that the Congress does not have that power is not "judicial activism".

Judicial activism is the willingness to overturn precedent if one disagrees with the precedent.

So what's it called when it's the willingness to overturn precedent when one agrees with the precedent?

Since we're exploring this brand new definition of judicial activism that never existed before, and since you're opposed to it, what's you're opinion of the Brown vs Board of Education ruling?

So yes, "rejecting 100 years of bad law and precedent," as you describe it, is a textbook example of judicial activism.

No, it's a textbook example of the court doing it's job and correcting mistakes made by other courts, just like Brown vs Board of Education was.

How is that relevant to anything I wrote? What in the world gave you the impression I support the McCain-Feingold Act?

Your defense of it is a good clue.
 
The Supreme Court essentially declared that corporations, unions, and nonprofits have all the same rights as human beings...which goes against precedent established when Teddy Roosevelt was president.

I don't see how you're getting that from this decision. Nowhere does it give corporations "all the same rights as human beings." It just reaffirms (strongly) a SC precedent going back to 1886.

i don't read the dailykos. and i'm certainly not trying to distract anyone. it's my belief that all campaigns should be funded by taxpayers, equally.

And as I noted before, this isn't about funding campaigns, it's about speech during campaign season. Do you think that everyone other than the candidates should be banned from expressing their thoughts on the election? The NYT should be banned from endorsing candidates? The ACLU should be banned from advocating for candidates who support privacy rights? The Sierra club should be banned from emailing its members to vote for environmental candidates?
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

as long as you fully understand the implications and end result......

I do.

I support freedom of speech, and I trust the voters to handle it.
 
We own it because it's a public resource and it is limited. If we just let anyone broadcast, there would be nothing but static.

Wrong!

The GOVERNMENT seized it because the "Progressives" allowed that to happen, even though there's no Constitutional authority for the government to seize or regulate property.

The correct and Constitutional process to "regulate" the E-M spectrum would have been to allow exploiters of new radio bands title to those bands in their area of broadcast, and to treat such titles as the government treats real estate.

Just in case you didn't notice, there are laws against trespassing on privately owned property and there could easily have been anti-E-M-trespassing laws.

Cite the Constitutional authority allowing the government to steal the E-M spectrum.
 
Re: Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending

I do.

I support freedom of speech, and I trust the voters to handle it.

your trust is misplaced given the current state of affairs in this nation methinks
 
And as I noted before, this isn't about funding campaigns, it's about speech during campaign season.

First, this is a great thread and a great discussion. But I do have to point out that the central issue is about speech and funding. They're being treated as the same thing. Money = Speech is an argument that many conservatives have been making for quite awhile. George Will probably makes the best case for it I've ever read.

This ruling from SCOTUS affirms that imo. Whether that's what they intended or not.
 
Wrong!

The GOVERNMENT seized it because the "Progressives" allowed that to happen, even though there's no Constitutional authority for the government to seize or regulate property.

The correct and Constitutional process to "regulate" the E-M spectrum would have been to allow exploiters of new radio bands title to those bands in their area of broadcast, and to treat such titles as the government treats real estate.

Just in case you didn't notice, there are laws against trespassing on privately owned property and there could easily have been anti-E-M-trespassing laws.

Cite the Constitutional authority allowing the government to steal the E-M spectrum.

LOL.

Go start a new thread on this one. You can start by explaining how anyone could hear a damn thing if anyone with a transmitter and microphone could broadcast any time they wanted.
 
Instead, GM can not just funnel money to the pockets of the lawmakers that want it, even if the law could possibly harm the People themselves. The individual is still restricted

GM should be banned most bodaciously from any and all political activity in the foreseeable future.

GM is a government controlled company at this time.

When the government divests itself of GM, GM can resume it's status as an equal among other publicly traded corporations and private persons.
 
LOL.

Go start a new thread on this one. You can start by explaining how anyone could hear a damn thing if anyone with a transmitter and microphone could broadcast any time they wanted.

Nah, almost everyone but you can figure out what I meant by "no trespassing".
 
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