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Obama tells Senate not to 'jam' through healthcare plan

Dav said:
Talk about missing the point. Did you bother to read what I was responding to?

You acted in disbelief when told that most Americans like their coverage. I provided two different polls to prove that it was correct.
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No, you pulled select stats from an older poll. There was a lot more information in that poll about who makes up the Fox and cable news audience.

My point was that the Fox audience is different at 5:00, 8:00, & 9:00.

The Fox news audience has changed somewhat since the 2008 election. Your assumption is that it grew proportionally to those pre-election numbers.

And let me add this point -- anybody who identifies as getting their news from one source only can't be too bright.
 
Don't you hate it when people tell you to do something that you were already going to do?
 
hazlnut said:
Because... They don't really count?:(

We shouldn't concern ourselves with infants not born in the U.S.? Is that your point?
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We're talking statistics, get a grip.
 
hazlnut said:
No, you pulled select stats from an older poll. There was a lot more information in that poll about who makes up the Fox and cable news audience.

My point was that the Fox audience is different at 5:00, 8:00, & 9:00.

The Fox news audience has changed somewhat since the 2008 election. Your assumption is that it grew proportionally to those pre-election numbers.

And let me add this point -- anybody who identifies as getting their news from one source only can't be too bright.
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What the hell does Fox have to do with anything I said? You're going on all sorts of tangents here.
 
hazlnut said:
Because... They don't really count?:(

We shouldn't concern ourselves with infants not born in the U.S.? Is that your point?
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Did it ever occur to you, that with our almost open borders policy, people from all over the third world (but mostly from south of the border) come over here not just for jobs but to use healthcare system as well (alot of it for free of course). Alot of them may have pre-existing conditions that were brought with them from there home country,many probably from a country with a socialist healthcare system. If cases like these are added into the statistics then it would not give you an entirely accurrate picture would it? Look at how many people come here to use the healthcare vs. how many leave here to go elsewhere & I think you'll have your answer.
 
Grim17 said:
Obama is either backing off because he's smart enough to realize the repercussions of jamming the bill through before Brown is seated, or the democrats plan on using reconciliation to jam it through after he is seated, or both.

I could be wrong, but I just can't imagine that Obama is moving to the center and respecting the wishes of the American people. He is surrounded himself with too many far-left radicals, that would never accept such a compromise.


Not having read all the comments, I hope I haven't repeated what someone else has said.
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I think you hit upon the real reason. Seat Brown, then pass the bill under reconciliation. I don't like what may be coming any more than you do, but it's a viable political option that may well result in passage, no matter what the GOP tries to do to kill it. It is the way Bush passed his tax cuts in the face of a Democratic filibuster. It works.

Hold onto your ass and your wallet. It's coming.
 
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the nuclear option can't be used to enact social legislation, it can only be used for budgetary quick fixes that are temporary in nature

most of what obamacare contemplates can't be carried by the emergency spending allowances afforded by reconciliation---pre existing conditions, mandates on individuals to buy, wellness and prevention, formation of boards and agencies...

Ezra Klein - The problems with budget reconciliation

RealClearPolitics - 'Reconciliation' to Pass Health Bill Won't Work

furthermore, any pieces passed via reconciliation must be reupped very frequently, the party would find itself within 6 months fighting this entire bloody battle all over

finally, any attempt to cram thru massive society-wide reform via anything other than normal parliamentary procedure will be seen as a repugnantly partisan power play

in short, reconciliation lacks political legitimacy

in our political climate, any attempt to go there will almost result in violence

reconciliation, in this context, is and always has been pure bluff
 
hazlnut said:
Because... They don't really count?:(

We shouldn't concern ourselves with infants not born in the U.S.? Is that your point?
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Yes, that's it EXACTLY... :roll::roll::roll:

No, it's that illegal's don't have the same standards of healthcare, pre-natal and post natal that citizens do.
 
hazlnut said:
Says who? People with cadillac plans?

When attempting to 'talk the truth', best not to do so from your ass.
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Moderator's Warning:
Knock it off, hazlnut.
 
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Dav said:
What the hell does Fox have to do with anything I said? You're going on all sorts of tangents here.
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My bad -- I got two threads confused.

My original point was that if you peel back the layers and read both reports -- not everything is as rosy as you suggested.

Yes, healthy people and people with good health care are happy...
 
MrVicchio said:
No, it's that illegal's don't have the same standards of healthcare, pre-natal and post natal that citizens do.
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Are you saying because the are reluctant to see a doctor? Or deliver in public hospitals?
 
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