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New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

Navy Pride said:
If rational gays got together and got rid of the "feel good liberals like DD" and took their cause to the proper authorities I believe you would have a good chance to get civil unions, but I also believe your chances are decreasing for civil unions because of the reasons I mentioned.........

Just like my friend Dave (the guy on our golf team who sadly lost his partner a while back) says to the militant gays and the feel good liberals "Just shut the **** up".
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Yes Navy....there are many people who try to silence the voice against discrimination just like there were those who wanted to keep Blacks on the back of the bus.
I will continue to speak out against discrimination against all members of our nation. Those who sit silent in the face of discrimination are cowards and those who accept compromise instead of equality and fairness are no better.
 
disneydude said:
Yes Navy....there are many people who try to silence the voice against discrimination just like there were those who wanted to keep Blacks on the back of the bus.
I will continue to speak out against discrimination against all members of our nation. Those who sit silent in the face of discrimination are cowards and those who accept compromise instead of equality and fairness are no better.
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And you will continue to hurt their cause in trying to get Civil Unions......
 
Navy Pride said:
If rational gays got together and got rid of the "feel good liberals like DD" and took their cause to the proper authorities I believe you would have a good chance to get civil unions, but I also believe your chances are decreasing for civil unions because of the reasons I mentioned.........

Just like my friend Dave (the guy on our golf team who sadly lost his partner a while back) says to the militant gays and the feel good liberals "Just shut the **** up".
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And if all the rational opponents of gay marriage got together and proposed civil unions and shut out the jackasses that are controlling the debate for you, you might see more rational gays come around to the idea of the civil union. But that ain't happening either so I guess we are at an impass.
 
disneydude said:
Like I said Navy....you are playing checkers...the rest of us are playing chess.
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The rest of us????:rofl Your losing in your own state one of the most liberal in the nation and 30-0 in the other states who have voted on the issue..........Now who is playing checkers??????????:rofl
 
jallman said:
And if all the rational opponents of gay marriage got together and proposed civil unions and shut out the jackasses that are controlling the debate for you, you might see more rational gays come around to the idea of the civil union. But that ain't happening either so I guess we are at an impass.
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They are not going to do that........They want the status quo.....If you want the change, you have to do it...........

Gotta go..Taking my wife shopping.........Good job jallman........:2wave:
 
jallman said:
And if all the rational opponents of gay marriage got together and proposed civil unions and shut out the jackasses that are controlling the debate for you, you might see more rational gays come around to the idea of the civil union. But that ain't happening either so I guess we are at an impass.
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Most of the conservatives I know at this point have no problem with civil unions
 
Navy Pride said:
Most of the conservatives I know at this point have no problem with civil unions
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Its like Jallman says...the only reason they don't have a problem with civil unions is because of the very real "threat" of gay marriage. If gays compromise and accept civil unions, you can bet that the right-wing will begin a campaign to neuter civil unions of any meaning.
 
disneydude said:
Its like Jallman says...the only reason they don't have a problem with civil unions is because of the very real "threat" of gay marriage. If gays compromise and accept civil unions, you can bet that the right-wing will begin a campaign to neuter civil unions of any meaning.
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I'm not going to attribute that to the whole right wing because I am rather right wing myself. However, as long as the "family values" charlatans have their cult following of fanatics and inbreds screaming and caterwauling over Adam and Steve getting their gay freak on, then you have to worry about constant litigation, rights being held in limbo, and constant social conflict.
 
disneydude said:
Its like Jallman says...the only reason they don't have a problem with civil unions is because of the very real "threat" of gay marriage. If gays compromise and accept civil unions, you can bet that the right-wing will begin a campaign to neuter civil unions of any meaning.
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Wrong, to me civil unions have nothing to do with gay marriage or marriage.........
 
Jallman I see you gave DD a thanks for his post....He is exactly what I am talking about that is hurting your chances to get civil unions with equal rights.........He is extreme on the subject and believe me he turns people off that might be sympathetic to your cause......
 
Navy Pride said:
Wrong, to me civil unions have nothing to do with gay marriage or marriage.........
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Navy, understand this...while you might be a good person at heart and have only fairness and justice in mind while trying to preserve your own traditions, there are others in this country who are not as noble and they have been the ones driving the debate.

I fully understand that your apprehension is about making certain that your religious and cultural traditions remain intact. I also understand that in expressing that apprehension, you do your best to remain respectful of those around you. You are not the issue here because you aren't one of the jackoffs we're talking about.

Basically, disney's and my issue is with people that head up these so-called "protect the family" lobbies who run around collecting church money by falsely telling people, who otherwise would not care, that homosexuals are leading a charge to destroy their way or life, molest their kids, have their kids taught to be homosexuals in school...basically stopping just short of telling people that we eat babies and rape puppies for fun because we know it makes Baby Jesus cry. They whip up these mobs against the eeeebul vampire homosexuals and convince them the only way to save society is to go and do something wholly unAmerican...vote AWAY the rights of individuals.

If that were being done to you about, say...men who have asian wives...wouldn't you be a little contrary and mistrustful of the idea of compromise?
 
jallman said:
Navy, understand this...while you might be a good person at heart and have only fairness and justice in mind while trying to preserve your own traditions, there are others in this country who are not as noble and they have been the ones driving the debate.

I fully understand that your apprehension is about making certain that your religious and cultural traditions remain intact. I also understand that in expressing that apprehension, you do your best to remain respectful of those around you. You are not the issue here because you aren't one of the jackoffs we're talking about.

Basically, disney's and my issue is with people that head up these so-called "protect the family" lobbies who run around collecting church money by falsely telling people, who otherwise would not care, that homosexuals are leading a charge to destroy their way or life, molest their kids, have their kids taught to be homosexuals in school...basically stopping just short of telling people that we eat babies and rape puppies for fun because we know it makes Baby Jesus cry. They whip up these mobs against the eeeebul vampire homosexuals and convince them the only way to save society is to go and do something wholly unAmerican...vote AWAY the rights of individuals.

If that were being done to you about, say...men who have asian wives...wouldn't you be a little contrary and mistrustful of the idea of compromise?
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OK if you feel that way...I tried......You need people just like me to help you in this situation...Like my friend Dave said you don't need DD because all people like him do is fire up the opposition to gay marriage and even Civil Unions....You take a step at a time... Gays have made great strides in this country in their fight for equal rights and far left militants have not helped..Hell I can remember when I was a kid a gay person would never admit it for fear of getting beat up......Those days are pretty much gone.......

As far as men having asian wives to most people its just not the same thing and it infuriates people when the comparison is made and it does no good for your cause.........

As I said I am for civil unions with equal rights but if I keep getting called over and over again I am a bigot or a homophobe I might change my mind on the issue as will many other people that are now sympathetic to your cause.......What is ironic its not gay people that are doing the name calling........Its "feel good" liberals who can go home at the end of the day and think to themselves.."Wow I am a great guy because I am helping poor oppressed gay people."

In closing I will say pick your allies carefully my friend...........
 
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Navy Pride said:
As I said I am for civil unions with equal rights but if I keep getting called over and over again I am a bigot or a homophobe.
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Well with all the slippery slope arguments like brother marrying sister, polygamy etc I'm curious as to why why you think civil unions are okay? Don't you think the same people would come out and argue for their civil union rights?
 
Navy Pride said:
OK if you feel that way...I tried......You need people just like me to help you in this situation...Like my friend Dave said you don't need DD because all people like him do is fire up the opposition to gay marriage and even Civil Unions....You take a step at a time... Gays have made great strides in this country in their fight for equal rights and far left militants have not helped..Hell I can remember when I was a kid a gay person would never admit it for fear of getting beat up......Those days are pretty much gone.......

As far as men having asian wives to most people its just not the same thing and it infuriates people when the comparison is made and it does no good for your cause.........

As I said I am for civil unions with equal rights but if I keep getting called over and over again I am a bigot or a homophobe I might change my mind on the issue as will many other people that are now sympathetic to your cause.......What is ironic its not gay people that are doing the name calling........Its "feel good" liberals who can go home at the end of the day and think to themselves.."Wow I am a great guy because I am helping poor oppressed gay people."

In closing I will say pick your allies carefully my friend...........
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I can agree with most of what you say. When have you ever heard me call you a homophobe or a bigot? In fact, how often do you see me EVER use those words unless they are explicitly warranted?

And you are correct about another issue...I despise the way the liberal block tries to use gays as some political crusade to make themselves feel better. I can't even count the times, at this point, that I have been smeared and called an "Uncle Tom" by liberals who were apalled that I was not going to toe the party line...that it was aghast that I wasnt a good little fag and backed up their liberal agenda because that's what good little fags do. **** them.

But you failed to note that my issue isn't with people like you. And your issue isn't with people like me. However, I am kinda tired of meeting your side half way in confronting the idiots on my side while your side lets the family values groups fun amok.
 
winston53660 said:
Well with all the slippery slope arguments like brother marrying sister, polygamy etc I'm curious as to why why you think civil unions are okay? Don't you think the same people would come out and argue for their civil union rights?
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I doubt that they would, we would have to see...........
 
jallman said:
I can agree with most of what you say. When have you ever heard me call you a homophobe or a bigot? In fact, how often do you see me EVER use those words unless they are explicitly warranted?

And you are correct about another issue...I despise the way the liberal block tries to use gays as some political crusade to make themselves feel better. I can't even count the times, at this point, that I have been smeared and called an "Uncle Tom" by liberals who were apalled that I was not going to toe the party line...that it was aghast that I wasnt a good little fag and backed up their liberal agenda because that's what good little fags do. **** them.

But you failed to note that my issue isn't with people like you. And your issue isn't with people like me. However, I am kinda tired of meeting your side half way in confronting the idiots on my side while your side lets the family values groups fun amok.[/QUOTE]

jallman its not the gay people in this forum that are the name callers, its the "Feel good" Liberals that do it.......Like I said there are thousands of us that are sympathetic to your plight...

I am also a family values guy but I try and not judge anyone.. The judging will be done when one is in front of their maker....That is for me too..........As I have said many times what two consenting people do in the privacy of their bedroom be they straight or gay is their business.....God knows after 21 years in the Navy I have heard it all....

I probably should not mention this but I recently spent a little time in the Naval Hospital where I was diagnosed with and inoperable heart problem so I might be meeting my maker sooner then I thought...I am 72 years old and have had a great life.....As a Roman Catholic I have made my peace with my God so I am fine and am peace with my situation..........Sorry to get off topic....

I mentioned my friend Dave who is gay.....He is a 3 handicap on our golf team.......I am a 16 handicap which is the worse on our team and Dave and I usually partner up in matches......He is a great guy ans I am proud to call him my friend and I believe most gay men are exactly like him in that they want to live out their lives in peace and harmony and all they ask for is the same rights their fellow men have and believe Civil Unions with equal rights can accomplish this....

I apologize for piling on DD but its him and people like him that are hurting your cause......
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Navy Pride said:
I don't know but they are not as organized as the people for civil unions........
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Okay fair enough. I doubt it would happen either. that is why I find the slippery arguments so absurd.
 
Navy Pride said:
Jallman I see you gave DD a thanks for his post....He is exactly what I am talking about that is hurting your chances to get civil unions with equal rights.........He is extreme on the subject and believe me he turns people off that might be sympathetic to your cause......
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If "civil unions" are exactly equal to "marriage" in all but name, there's no reason to discriminate by having them.
 
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