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British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

Yes Bill Clinton appealed but we told him to eat more burgers.

Weren't there a lot of Americans who AGREED with Singapore's punishment in that case. Still, flogging someone for vandalism is hardly comparable to executing a mentally ill man for committing a crime that would not result in death in a civilized country.
 
Weren't there a lot of Americans who AGREED with Singapore's punishment in that case. Still, flogging someone for vandalism is hardly comparable to executing a mentally ill man for committing a crime that would not result in death in a civilized country.

That mentally ill? He is not a zombie or a dickhead. He still can think straight. He should have been hanged instead of lethal injection.
 
That mentally ill? He is not a zombie or a dickhead. He still can think straight. He should have been hanged instead of lethal injection.

We don't know how mentally ill he was. It would have been nice to get an expert assessment rather than a thirty-minute trial that clearly violates China's responsibilities under international law and covenents it has adhered to in the international community.
 
We don't know how mentally ill he was. It would have been nice to get an expert assessment rather than a thirty-minute trial that clearly violates China's responsibilities under international law and covenents it has adhered to in the international community.

Just don't mess with the communists.
 
The specific objection of the British government in this case, and the source of the outrage against China which will ultimately damage Britain's interests (in other words these are words that are said knowing that they will have a cost) is as follows:

China executed a man, where there is significant prima facie evidence of that man having diminished responsibility due to his mental state, without a medical assessment by the Court.

This was despite tewnty seven requests by the British government that a UK citizen be afforded such a process which constitutes a necessary part of a "fair trial" in the eyes of most international jurists.

So it's not about whether capital punishment was right or wrong. It was nopt about whether bipolar disorder in this individual case led to diminsihed responsibility. And it is certainly not about the bloody Opium Wars.

It is about the fact that China has failed to provide a British citizen with a fair trial before executing them. It is an utter disgrace that should unite all civilized people on this forum.

On December 25th China sent a non violent dissident to jail for 11 years for expressing his opinion that China should introduce democratic reforms. The leadership of the CCP is engaging in policies that are "f you" to the international community, in order to aggrandize their nation and strut on the world stage with the big boys. The rights of individuals are being trampled on. Civilized countries should continue to harry and criticize China, en bloc, for these failures to live up to standards of basic human decency and their treaty obligations on human rights.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/62791-major-setback-human-rights-china-liu-xiaobo-jailed-11-years.html

Some hope. The civilized countries are too riuddled with authoritarian troglodytes for that to happen. When China is top nation, which it will be, we will all regret that we did not engage China on these issues sooner. Only the success of reformists from within the CCP can give us hope in my opinion.
 
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OK Ok get the UN to impose sanctions on China
 
OK Ok get the UN to impose sanctions on China

The PRC has veto power. We ALL have the right to impose sanctions on China by limiting as much as possible our economic interactions with the country. I only purchase things made in China if I have no other reasonable alternative -- which actually, if you look hard enough, there are alternatives out there for almost anything... for example: none of the clothes I am wearing at this moment were made in China, my computer was made in Taiwan as was my monitor and most of the accessories on my computer were made in Malaysia...
 
The PRC has veto power. We ALL have the right to impose sanctions on China by limiting as much as possible our economic interactions with the country. I only purchase things made in China if I have no other reasonable alternative -- which actually, if you look hard enough, there are alternatives out there for almost anything... for example: none of the clothes I am wearing at this moment were made in China, my computer was made in Taiwan as was my monitor and most of the accessories on my computer were made in Malaysia...

Take a look at Walmart. Its china's dumping ground.
 
The PRC has veto power. We ALL have the right to impose sanctions on China by limiting as much as possible our economic interactions with the country. I only purchase things made in China if I have no other reasonable alternative -- which actually, if you look hard enough, there are alternatives out there for almost anything... for example: none of the clothes I am wearing at this moment were made in China, my computer was made in Taiwan as was my monitor and most of the accessories on my computer were made in Malaysia...

I don't think this is the answer. Look in China there are millions of people with access to media sources and there are opinion makers and bureaucrats susceptible to international opinion, whatever the bluster about "no-one has the right to comment on China's internal affairs" nonsense.

The solution is for the international community (the democracies) to speak with one united voice on these issues. China knows how to play divide and rule with Western nations, and the UK will be a conscious victim of that here. China needs and wants to emerge into the world as a player. Sometimes the new kid needs a bit of a talking to as we help him to do that.
 
Take a look at Walmart. Its china's dumping ground.

No Wal-Marts in the country where I live (thank God) and Costco imports enough products from other countries (many of the clothes there are imported from countries other than China, for example) that I am able to stay at least 90% China-free.
 
I don't think this is the answer. Look in China there are millions of people with access to media sources and there are opinion makers and bureaucrats susceptible to international opinion, whatever the bluster about "no-one has the right to comment on China's internal affairs" nonsense.

The solution is for the international community (the democracies) to speak with one united voice on these issues. China knows how to play divide and rule with Western nations, and the UK will be a conscious victim of that here. China needs and wants to emerge into the world as a player. Sometimes the new kid needs a bit of a talking to as we help him to do that.

What access are you talking about? Haven't you seen how the Great Firewall of China is getting more and more sophisticated -- so much so that many of the proxies that had been used to bypass it are no longer effective? Fact is that for the vast majority of China's people, there are no options for news outside the official state-party controlled media sources.
 
What access are you talking about? Haven't you seen how the Great Firewall of China is getting more and more sophisticated -- so much so that many of the proxies that had been used to bypass it are no longer effective? Fact is that for the vast majority of China's people, there are no options for news outside the official state-party controlled media sources.

It's a complex subject. There are widespread discussions in China about issues and the Party line does generally prevail. But there is also curiosity as to how the West can act in a certain way and a thirst for understanding that goes beyond the China good, West bad totalitarian paradigm. And the elites, where the power struggle will happenl, certainly have access to information and news. This will be discussed on CCTV and there will be a feeble attempt to put the Western point of view before criticizing it. That's why the message should be simple: the world expects its visitors to China, who are accused of a crime, to be given a fair trial according to international standards. Make that case and they can go on about the opium wars all they like, certain Chinese people will see through this victimology approach to the issue.

And as I say I think there are a lot of people in China who instinctively distrust the government. Nearly everyone I have met in China knows that the government is corrupt and why Party offiicals are rich. there is tremendous cynicism. Nonetheless there is also tremendous nationalism and xenophobia, whipped up by the party to keep people in line.

The trick in China is to take the long view. Remember when Zhou Enlai was asked whether he thought the French Revolution was a success, he replied "it is far too early to say" nearly two hundred years later. A consistent, oft repeated, principled position by the democracies will eventually pierce the walls that the traditionalists in the CCP put up. As has been said, a middle class will grow up that demands liberty at some stage. That class will complete the task of synthesizing confucian and liberal values, I believe.
 
The botom line is China is a communist nation and don't expect China to have USA type constitution.
 
The botom line is China is a communist nation and don't expect China to have USA type constitution.

The thing is, that it does actually have quite a liberal constitution. It just doesn't abide by it.
 
Governments in the democratic world use statistics and studies whose sources are traceable and thus can be subjected to criticism. That's democracy.
Actually, again to stress precision, that's an example of integrity in Bureaucracy, and would be so in a Theocratic Dictatorship administered by a computer program posing as a divinity.
 
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I'm against capitol punishment and I'm for legalization of drugs, but to say that someone isn't responsible for their actions because they have bipolar disorder is downright hilarious. There's mental illness and then there's mental illness. Some people are really crazy, but bipolar disorder?!! C'mon. Can I kill anyone I want to if I have a fear of heights?
Quite possibly, if at the time you are under the influence of mind altering recreational drugs that someone has been so foolish as to legalize.
 
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