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British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

Partisan said:
Yes, I have....;)
Sorry about the quote, it was unintentional, I hope this clarifies....:3oops:
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No problem.

China is a quarter of the world and will be the next top nation. I give it twenty to thirty years. We still have a chance to influence how it will turn out. We won't then.
 
Red_Dave said:
Well my ideal economic system would be something like a combination of Libertarian socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or maybe Distributism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia but thats a subject ild be happy to disscuss in the economics forum. I haven't paid much attention to political economics for a while though as international relations is more my thing these days. Perhaps a name change is in order...

Anyhow if i had my way the arms embargo on China would be reapplied so im not condoning China here. Ive condoned violence against the Chinese government at least once on here so this cant be emphasized enough. My comments should be viewed in the context of what Scorpion said. I.E that the UK should declare war on China for putting one of its citizens to death (justly in a De Jure sense if not a moral one). My only point is that if we were to tally up the amount of people killed tortured or imprisoned as a result of U.S policies then that would justify a lot of invasions.

This isn't about "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" this is about applying the same standards to ourselves as we do to our enemies. People are frequently killed in Colombia for joining trade unions and Colombia still gets military aid. Maybe we should look closer to home.

And once more this guy had bipolar, he wasnt retarded. Can we not be so intellectually lazy with these conditions? Its very patronizing.
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OK Red.

Violence would be highly counterproductive. First we obviously need to get our values in order. China will be influenced by a Western world speaking consistently with one voice and living its values.

Well there are lots of reports on how he was mentally ill. Mental illness is something that needs to be diagnosed by an expert, not your experience of your friends and relatives. Apparently the Chinese judges laughed at this guy who went to China to become a rich pop star. And they didn't tell him about his death sentence "on humanitarian grounds". This was a barbaric act, pure and simple. Opium wars, Americans doing the same thing to mentally ill guys, Chinese sovereignty...none of these things are relevant. China is not my enemy.

I do apply the same standards to China as to the USA. But yesterday, in defiance of 27 calls from the British government, the USA did not execute someone without a proper assessment of his mental capacity. When it does, you can count on me to be calling them for it.

As to the go to war argument, that was obviously a crazy post. But your argument also defended the execution as consistent with Chinese laws. That's disgraceful.

Whatever type of socialist you are (I know libertarian socialism is that Chomskyian gobbledegook that is a variant of a highly vulgarized Marxist methiod), judging actions purely on whether the USA does it or not is just bollocks and a sick form of cultural relativism that resulted in the Left supporting the USSR, tacitly, overtly or simply by giving them an easy ride, for over eighty years. Everyone knows that hypocrisy is the big American political disease. But that doesn't invalidate the values of freedom, democracy and the inalienable rights of man.
 
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Red_Dave said:
Yeah imagine if the United States started to imprison and torture people with no evidence against them.
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Well since it has never happen and don't bring GITMO into this discussions it has nothing to do with this case nor will it ever two different items and you know it Dave nice strawman attempt.
 
jujuman13 said:
Wrong there with regards to Dubya who as Governor of Texas sanctioned the execution of a man who was mentally ill.

We only have the word of the family to suggest that this guy suffered Bi-polar disorder and even if he did, what of it?

4 Kg of Heroin can cause an awful lot of damage.

Anyone found to be smuggling Illegal drugs should be executed.
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Wrong get your fact straight before you spout off junior. he was given a far trial and went thru all of the legal rights we have in this country before Mr. Bush signed the papers and then lets not forget the United States Supreme Court didn't stop it either since they have the last right on any exucution. Next time learn the ****ing facts before posting.
 
Hey Commie Dave you don't like my idea tough but let me explain something to you in China if you call someone on this like I said then they would have no choice to back down. but see most Western Countries Governments have no backbone if I was the PM of England their would no question as a matter of fact i would send the Army in and take over the Chinese Embas. and put the Embasador on TV showing the World we aren't to be **** with and if Chine didn't release this person and did excute him then then next one to be killed would be the Embasador. See unlike you my Commie friend I have no problem standing up to Red China.
 
Scorpion89 said:
Hey Commie Dave you don't like my idea tough but let me explain something to you in China if you call someone on this like I said then they would have no choice to back down. but see most Western Countries Governments have no backbone if I was the PM of England their would no question as a matter of fact i would send the Army in and take over the Chinese Embas. and put the Embasador on TV showing the World we aren't to be **** with and if Chine didn't release this person and did excute him then then next one to be killed would be the Embasador. See unlike you my Commie friend I have no problem standing up to Red China.
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What are you talking about? There are so many things wrong with this rubbish that its difficult to know where to start. There is a British Embassy in Beijing you know. Not that China would but what would stop them just executing our diplomats? Then what, we nuke Beijing? They are a nuclear power too. Anyway, by the time we had executed the Chinese ambasador we would probably have been invaded by the USA fearing that our government had lost it smarbles. Strangely the GIs would probably be greeted as liberators, which they very much weren't in 1942 (the tardy bastards).

So are you just having fun spouting this nonsense to see what sort of a reaction you get?
 
Plato said:
What are you talking about? There are so many things wrong with this rubbish that its difficult to know where to start. There is a British Embassy in Beijing you know. Not that China would but what would stop them just executing our diplomats? Then what, we nuke Beijing? They are a nuclear power too. Anyway, by the time we had executed the Chinese ambasador we would probably have been invaded by the USA fearing that our government had lost it smarbles. Strangely the GIs would probably be greeted as liberators, which they very much weren't in 1942 (the tardy bastards).

So are you just having fun spouting this nonsense to see what sort of a reaction you get?
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Nope see when this first started to unfold I would have closed the English Embas. in China hence no problem their what no backbone to stand up to Red China typical of many of the Western So-Called Power Nations.
 
Ikari said:
That is, unfortunately, quite the possible scenario. I wouldn't trust China with anything.
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I don't see how he would've been executed for being a political dissenter and yet the family nor the british government would put words forth indicating this. I assume that sort of thing would cause outrage on the other side.

And why execute drug smugglers?
Thats very sharia/commie/bolshevik/nazistic of you guys.

So do you guys love china for executing smugglers or hate them because you cling to the wild idea and far-flung idea that china set him up?


As for me I think the guy was just too badass to live which is the likely case. A muslim Uk citizen in a drug smuggling operation in central asia through china. Something cool to do overseas. But never worth the risk of getting caught if you ask me.
 
Scorpion89 said:
Wrong get your fact straight before you spout off junior. he was given a far trial and went thru all of the legal rights we have in this country before Mr. Bush signed the papers and then lets not forget the United States Supreme Court didn't stop it either since they have the last right on any exucution. Next time learn the ****ing facts before posting.
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I did learn the as you so quaintly put it ****ing facts before I posted.
Bush signed the execution order.
 
[quote




Where do you get this information from?
[/quote]I make it up as I go along:lol:
 
B L Zeebub said:
I concur, we could have special offers, buy one and get one free,free samples yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:lol:
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Costco would be a great place to sell them. They're always giving out free samples :mrgreen:
 
Portugal is I believe the first country to take a pragmatic view of drug addicts.
It is no longer illegal to hold small quantities of previously illegal drugs.
Portugal treats the addicts as opposed to other countries who treat addicts as criminals.
Portugal continues to locate drug smugglers and treats them harshly when found.

Unfortunately there is no death penalty within the EU.
 
There is the UK internet death penalty for anal posters
 
SE102 said:
I don't see how he would've been executed for being a political dissenter and yet the family nor the british government would put words forth indicating this. I assume that sort of thing would cause outrage on the other side.

And why execute drug smugglers?
Thats very sharia/commie/bolshevik/nazistic of you guys.

So do you guys love china for executing smugglers or hate them because you cling to the wild idea and far-flung idea that china set him up?


As for me I think the guy was just too badass to live which is the likely case. A muslim Uk citizen in a drug smuggling operation in central asia through china. Something cool to do overseas. But never worth the risk of getting caught if you ask me.
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We don't execute smugglers. We give them the universal human right to a fair trial. Then we send them to jail. And when they get out? Back to Me-Ji-Ko.
 
jamesrage said:
No because they know the risks and therefor accept those risks.



I do not think its right. But at the same ime you have no room to complain when you willingly go to such a country and commit what that country considers a crime there.




Perhaps China does not buy into the idiotic notion that you should be lenient on someone just because the criminal or some quacks claim the criminal is insane.



I never said I agree with what China did. Even though I think certain drugs should stay illegal I do not think it is a execution worthy offense. The fact some quacks claim the person is insane is irrelvent to the fact he committed what that country considers a crime.
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It is not an idiotic notion....

The U.S jurisprudence has developed a great deal of jurisprudence relating to criminal culpability since the important British case of MacNaughten. To be guilty of a crime a person must have committed both the physical and mental element of the crime. Thus mental illeness, raises real issues as to whether the accused mentally comprehended their actions.

Consequently, your notion that mental illness is irrelevant, demonstrates your lack of knowledge of the rich common law jurisprudence that has developed in your nation and fellow common law nations. And let me tell you, even textualists see the importance of the MacNaughten rules..... But maybe I'm wrong, maybe the legal profession in all it wisdom has no f*cking clue, and maybe we should abrogate mens rae as soon as the crime involves drugs. Absolute liability and the death penalty for drug smuggling...
 
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Australianlibertarian said:
It is not an idiotic notion....

The U.S jurisprudence has developed a great deal of jurisprudence relating to criminal culpability since the important British case of MacNaughten. To be guilty of a crime a person must have committed both the physical and mental element of the crime. Thus mental illeness, raises real issues as to whether the accused mentally comprehended their actions.
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Once more we need to learn the difference between mental illness and retardation here. How does a mood disorder prevent someone from comprehending their actions?
 
It may or may not. That is a question of fact, and expert opinion. Generally personality disorders are not considered as mental illness under the MacNaughten rules. However, if there was evidence to suggest that the accused due to their condition did not understand the nature of the crime, they may or may not fall under the MacNaughten rules. Some jurisdictions place illness such as sleep apnea induced crimes under the mens rae.

Either way, there are real issues about whether the accused had the mental capability to understand the nature of their actions, when they committed the crime.
 
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jujuman13 said:
Portugal is I believe the first country to take a pragmatic view of drug addicts.
It is no longer illegal to hold small quantities of previously illegal drugs.
Portugal treats the addicts as opposed to other countries who treat addicts as criminals.
Portugal continues to locate drug smugglers and treats them harshly when found.

Unfortunately there is no death penalty within the EU.
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Let me correct your thinking.

Portugal taxes its productive citezens to "treat" the drug-addled human parasites that it authorizes by it's flaccid social policy. It would be more efficient simply to allow drug addicts to simply rob working people at gunpoint.
 
Oftencold said:
Let me correct your thinking.

Portugal taxes its productive citezens to "treat" the drug-addled human parasites that it authorizes by it's flaccid social policy. It would be more efficient simply to allow drug addicts to simply rob working people at gunpoint.
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It's not his thinking that is flawed. Portugal has markedly lower levels of gun crime than other developed nations, which rather blows your partisan assumption out of the water.
 
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