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Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

Kal'Stang said:
If it is deemed unconstitutional then the courts can nullify that part of the bill. Congress cannot stop this.

The difference between the military and you and I is that you join the military voluntarily. Which means you follow their rules voluntarily. We do not join life voluntarily. We are mandated to have health insurance from the day that we are born with the passing of this bill.
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I don't think you understand.

Military base closers are decided by a committee and congress has to vote on the committees recommendations, congress does not choose which bases are closed.

Congress can not make its own rules to base closers.

The same will be true for any changes for this senate bill.
 
Kal'Stang said:
It can still happen.
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If you're hell bent to go to jail, yes anything can happen. But it would be for not paying your taxes, not for failure to have health insurance.
 
Bassman said:
The only thing the IRS does is sieze, sieze, sieze!
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Didn't sieze anything from me. We just worked out a reasonable payment plan. It really wasn't difficult or too tough.
 
Boo Radley said:
Newmax? Are you serious?

However, this isn't the claim I asked you back. This doesn't say insurance companies will go out of business. Now Newsmax's unnamed "experts" aren't correct either, but let's put that aside for the moment. Do you have anything more valid, verifiable, that we can examine?
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And yet you tout DailyKooks, Huff-n-puffPiece, and National Progressive Radio as "credible" sources.
 
Bassman said:
And yet you tout DailyKooks, Huff-n-puffPiece, and National Progressive Radio as "credible" sources.
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I don't believe I've used them. Unless you mean NPR, which is overall fairly accurate. Accuracy means credible. ;)
 
Bassman said:
"Accuracy" to you would mean anything that pushes the Leftist agenda you espouse.
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As opposed to your pushing the "right wing" agenda? Maybe you should try saying this stuff out loud. Record yourself. You might then get an idea on ow it sounds.

No, I mean accuracy, as in being accurate. This is important to credibility.
 
Boo Radley said:
As opposed to your pushing the "right wing" agenda? Maybe you should try saying this stuff out loud. Record yourself. You might then get an idea on ow it sounds.

No, I mean accuracy, as in being accurate. This is important to credibility.
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And yet you are more than willing to dismiss conservative sources like American Spectator, Newsmax, et al. but you would lap up a Liberal hitpiece from DailyKooks.
 
Bassman said:
And yet you are more than willing to dismiss conservative sources like American Spectator, Newsmax, et al. but you would lap up a Liberal hitpiece from DailyKooks.
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I've never used the DailyKos, ever. So, I guess you would be wrong about that as well.

However, being conservative or liberal alone doesn't disqualify a source. Being inaccurate does. If the American Spectator, which I've never read, was accurate, that would make them a credible source. If they are not accurate, they lose credibility. This seems simple enough, doesn't it?
 
Boo Radley said:
If you're hell bent to go to jail, yes anything can happen. But it would be for not paying your taxes, not for failure to have health insurance.
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Tell that to Survivor Winner Hatch. He failed to pay his taxes on the $1 million that he won. Believing that he didn't have to. Of course he was wrong. But the IRS slapped a lawsuit on him for it...without working with him on it first. He went to a federal prison for 15 months.

point being is that the IRS doesn't HAVE to work with you. It can slap you with a lawsuit at any time.

And again the two are linked. You don't do one you get fined, don't get that fine payed you go to jail. You can't have one without the other.

And lets get real here. They may call it a tax but it is not a tax. It is a fine.

Main Entry: 2tax
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Date: 14th century
1 a : a charge usually of money imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes b : a sum levied on members of an organization to defray expenses
2 : a heavy demand
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Defination of Tax

Main Entry: 1fine
Pronunciation: \ˈfīn\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French fin, fine, from Latin finis boundary, end
Date: 13th century
1 obsolete : end, conclusion
2 : a compromise of a fictitious suit used as a form of conveyance of lands
3 a : a sum imposed as punishment for an offense b : a forfeiture or penalty paid to an injured party in a civil action

— in fine : in short
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Defination of Fine

You only get this "tax" if you don't have health insurance. IE it is a punishment for not having health insurance.
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
I already told you why in post #75
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Here is post #75

CrusaderRabbit08 said:
Reform is in the eye of the beholder. You see this issue as a negative for this country, while others see it as a positive. Funny how that works

The left wants this, they're in the majority and they're going to get it. Kinda like how the right got things under Bush.

I find things like the Patriot Act and the War in Iraq to be just as harmful to this country (if not more so) as government healthcare. Yet the right championed these causes and told me to F off for not being a patriot.

Now that something they find to be just as distasteful to them is passing, they expect me to feel the same. Well, I won't. I have little compassion and absolutely no sympathy for them. Now their ox is getting gored ..good! It's the nature of partisan politics. I'll just sit here and relish the moment
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Again, you oppose the Democratic Health Care bill.

But, you lack of "compassion" and "sympathy" for Conservatives or Republicans (I am not sure which or both so forgive me or correct me if I on this element) allows you to cheer against them. Did I capture that correctly?

I should note that I am no fan of the Patriot Act. But, I do not see how it even touches my life and have not noticed it to date except at the airports. The Health Care bill is not only trampling on the constitution in significant ways, but it also appears to be taking away my level of health care.
 
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Kal'Stang said:
Tell that to Survivor Winner Hatch. He failed to pay his taxes on the $1 million that he won. Believing that he didn't have to. Of course he was wrong. But the IRS slapped a lawsuit on him for it...without working with him on it first. He went to a federal prison for 15 months.

point being is that the IRS doesn't HAVE to work with you. It can slap you with a lawsuit at any time.

And again the two are linked. You don't do one you get fined, don't get that fine payed you go to jail. You can't have one without the other.

And lets get real here. They may call it a tax but it is not a tax. It is a fine.
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A lot more money than I had to deal with, but I suspect a few details are being left out.

It's both a tax and a fine, and if you don't pay your tax, you will be fined. But no matter how many times you travel down this road, what someone would go to jail for is not failure to be insured, but for not paying his or her taxes. That's just a fact.



You only get this "tax" if you don't have health insurance. IE it is a punishment for not having health insurance.
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Incorrect. You don't go to jail for not having insurance. There's no option to skip the tax and put you in jail. You have to break a second law before you go to jail.
 
The Truth said:
Here is post #75



Again, you oppose the Democratic Health Care bill.

But, you lack of "compassion" and "sympathy" for Conservatives or Republicans (I am not sure which or both so forgive me or correct me if I on this element) allows you to cheer against them. Did I capture that correctly?
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The same crowd who cheered on the Patriot Act and the War in Iraq is pretty much the same crowd who railed against healthcare reform. I'm talking generalities, because there are always exceptions to the rule.

Also, just because some find one piece of legislation to be abhorrent doesn't make it so. There are others out there who support it.
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
The same crowd who cheered on the Patriot Act and the War in Iraq is pretty much the same crowd who railed against healthcare reform. I'm talking generalities, because there are always exceptions to the rule.

Also, just because some find one piece of legislation to be abhorrent doesn't make it so. There are others out there who support it.
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Well neither you nor I do... yet you are alright with poking a majority of those who are against it in the rhetorical eye. Perhaps a more constructive move would be to find common ground.

I am just saying. It takes all types to make the world go round.

Merry Christmas. :2wave:
 
The Truth said:
Well neither you nor I do... yet you are alright with poking a majority of those who are against it in the rhetorical eye. Perhaps a more constructive move would be to find common ground.

I am just saying. It takes all types to make the world go round.

Merry Christmas. :2wave:
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I'll give you common ground. Let's tie legislation to overturn healthcare reform along with legislation to end the War in Iraq immediately. I'll support joint legislation for that. Separate these issues and my support is lost.
 
Boo Radley said:
A lot more money than I had to deal with, but I suspect a few details are being left out.

It's both a tax and a fine, and if you don't pay your tax, you will be fined. But no matter how many times you travel down this road, what someone would go to jail for is not failure to be insured, but for not paying his or her taxes. That's just a fact.
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It is a fact that if no one had to pay the fine then this issue would not have even been brought up. Obviously the two are linked. You can try to seperate them all that you want. Fact is that with out this fine then the clause's in the tax code would not apply.



Incorrect. You don't go to jail for not having insurance. There's no option to skip the tax and put you in jail. You have to break a second law before you go to jail.
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I was defining the word "Tax" and "Fine". It was not directed at the going to jail part of this discussion. The fact that people are calling it a tax is disingenuous. The fact that the Government is calling it a tax and linking it to the tax codes is also disingenuous and a flat out lie. One needs to only look at the definitions of the two words to see this.

I have a theory as to why the government is calling it a tax and is linking it to the tax code. Though I'm sure that there's no way to substantiate this.

The theory is this.

If it was instead called a fine by the government and treated as such it would be handled through the courts directly. This allows people to challenge it much easier.

Going through the tax code however the government then creates more legal red tape before it ever gets to the courts. All they have to do is use the same kind of argument that you are trying to put forth. Even if that argument is disingenuous because it tries to seperate the two. Even though they are linked.
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
I'll give you common ground. Let's tie legislation to overturn healthcare reform along with legislation to end the War in Iraq immediately. I'll support joint legislation for that. Separate these issues and my support is lost.
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One: the war in Iraq is finished. Has been for quite a while.

Two: why link the two? They are two seperate issues that have nothing to do with each other. Linking the two would only confuse things. Is that what you want?
 
j-mac said:
I hope everyone has their bills paid up, or off. I hope that everyone is secure in their jobs. I hope that demos realize that as this monstrosity takes effect, and people see no change for the upcoming 4 years, other than insurance, and Pharma companies allowed to continually raise their rates, that the demos understand as they lose a lion share of power in upcoming 2010, and 2012 elections that no matter the rhetoric they brought this on themselves.

And I hope that this, along with other plans that this administration has in mind to destroy this once great nation are reversible. For my children's sake.

Merry Christmas.


j-mac
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About damn time. Sure, whine all you want about how crappy the plan is and make baseless pessimistic claims, but since I've never heard a conservative offer an alternative plan, I'm all for it.
 
Toothpicvic said:
About damn time. Sure, whine all you want about how crappy the plan is and make baseless pessimistic claims, but since I've never heard a conservative offer an alternative plan, I'm all for it.
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Why? Republicans and conservatives have been completely shut out of the process, genius.
 
Toothpicvic said:
About damn time. Sure, whine all you want about how crappy the plan is and make baseless pessimistic claims, but since I've never heard a conservative offer an alternative plan, I'm all for it.
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Alternative plans have been offered. They were shot down by liberals. Add to that converatives have been shut out of the negotiations for this bill and what chance have they had to offer even more?
 
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