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Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

The Truth said:
Each one of the items I listed would indeed save billions and the overall solution would lower prices for all and cover all the uninsured. Did you actually read through it?
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Yes, I did read them. They are not new and I doubt they would do what you claim. For example The state line issue stands out. All relevant insurance companies already sell insurance in every state.
As for tort reform. A few states have already done it with no change in insurance costs.
The insurance companies and healthcare providers will find ways to increase profits and the consumer will pay for it. The billions saved will not go to the consumer.
I am all for the common sense programs but the problem is much bigger than you care to admit.
 
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The Truth said:
I never voted for Bush. I fail to see how trading one set of scumbags for another while both sets do incredible damage to this country is something to gloat about or find humor in. Your reaction is quite strange
.
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What can I say? I really enjoy watching conservatives getting screwed over :mrgreen:
 
Dirty Harry said:
It's not my solution.

Your solutions would not put a dent in the problem It would not make it affordible for all and cover those that can't afford to eat let alone pay for insurance.
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Adding more government intervention will only multiply the problem.
 
This bill does nothing to reign in medical care cost inflation and may in fact cause prices to rise, especially for younger people who are already hindered in their income with the recession.

Things to expect;

Decreased accessibility for seniors to find doctors.

A general across the board rise in prices.

Employers dropping coverage because it's cheaper to pay the fine than pay part of an employees insurance.
 
j-mac said:
I hope everyone has their bills paid up, or off. I hope that everyone is secure in their jobs. I hope that demos realize that as this monstrosity takes effect, and people see no change for the upcoming 4 years, other than insurance, and Pharma companies allowed to continually raise their rates, that the demos understand as they lose a lion share of power in upcoming 2010, and 2012 elections that no matter the rhetoric they brought this on themselves.
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6 mos after the bill goes into effect, insurance companies will not longer be able to deny coverage to children based on pre-existing conditions. People without kids might not fully understand what this means, but on this one point, I think it's a step in the right direction.

Insurance companies can raise their rates, but the smart ones will figure about a better, more efficient way to do business. Offer better service at a more completive price.

Also, the insurance exchange will put the power back in the hands of the consumer. Policies will be rated according to cost and coverage and quality of service and we'll have more information. There are many things about both bills that I don't like; it's not perfect, but it is indeed a happy Christmas.
 
The Truth said:
Perhaps the real solution is true reform?

Medicare and Medicaid audit units targeting waste, corruption, and fraud.
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Already in the bill.

Section 3403 of the Democratic bill in the Senate that lays out how the Congress would deal with recommendations from a special Medicare Commission, which would be charged with finding ways to save money in the program.
The Truth said:
Locating Urgent Care Centers next to Emergency Rooms to triage patients
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I think, if I'm not mistaken, the purpose would be for ERs to refer non-emergency case to the urgent care right next door. Nice and convenient, but the question would then be 'Would it be practical and/or economically feasible?' Most emergency rooms are located in hospital complexes. Where would the urgent care be built without taking up valuable hospital space. My area has many urgent care facilities (at least as many, if not more, as ERs) conveniently located around the area, yet people still go to the ER rather than urgent care. I think a lot more education in this area would be helpful
The Truth said:
Tort reform
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A majority of the states have some sort of tort reform already and show no sign of benefit to the consumer. Plus it effects the further erosion of the citizens due process in the judicial system.
The Truth said:
Insurance competition across state lines
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This is a little more complicated than a five word 'wish list' statement.

Right now insurance companies have highly organized and capital intensive networks in the markets that they operate in - notice the difference in rates your insurance pays for 'in-network' vs. 'out-of-network' providers.

An out-of-state health plan isn't going to have that negotiated advantage of a network of providers for discounted services and it wouldn't be economically feasible for 100's of insurers to establish networks in every area of the country.

There would be choice, but I don't see much savings through competition.

Unless restrictions and/or regulations are instituted it would also undermine consumer protection that the public has fought long and hard for.

The Truth said:
Federally fund regional pools of the uninsured and have the insurance companies bid on plans for them
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Curious...how would a federally funded pool save money?

The Truth said:
...behind closed doors.
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LOL...behind closed doors? Every media and blogger has a representative camped out in all the legislative bathrooms.
 
The Truth said:
You have deference towards corrupt politicians over corrupt private business? Your solution just turns it over to another corrupt sect of people.

Perhaps the real solution is true reform?
  • Medicare and Medicaid audit units targeting waste, corruption, and fraud.
  • Locating Urgent Care Centers next to Emergency Rooms to triage patients
  • Tort reform
  • Insurance competition across state lines
  • Federally fund regional pools of the uninsured and have the insurance companies bid on plans for them

All of these are far more sensible than what I have heard from Democratic or Republican pundits and what I listed would save billions of dollars. I am still baffled as to why this had to be rushed through and created behind closed doors.
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All great ideas, some of which the Reps have proposed and quickly shot down by the Dem majority, yet the media still says all the Reps want is to have no reform.

Exactly what project or service has the government ever run more efficiently than a private business? Name just one.
 
BWG said:
Already in the bill.

Section 3403 of the Democratic bill in the Senate that lays out how the Congress would deal with recommendations from a special Medicare Commission, which would be charged with finding ways to save money in the program.

I think, if I'm not mistaken, the purpose would be for ERs to refer non-emergency case to the urgent care right next door. Nice and convenient, but the question would then be 'Would it be practical and/or economically feasible?' Most emergency rooms are located in hospital complexes. Where would the urgent care be built without taking up valuable hospital space. My area has many urgent care facilities (at least as many, if not more, as ERs) conveniently located around the area, yet people still go to the ER rather than urgent care. I think a lot more education in this area would be helpful

A majority of the states have some sort of tort reform already and show no sign of benefit to the consumer. Plus it effects the further erosion of the citizens due process in the judicial system.

This is a little more complicated than a five word 'wish list' statement.

Right now insurance companies have highly organized and capital intensive networks in the markets that they operate in - notice the difference in rates your insurance pays for 'in-network' vs. 'out-of-network' providers.

An out-of-state health plan isn't going to have that negotiated advantage of a network of providers for discounted services and it wouldn't be economically feasible for 100's of insurers to establish networks in every area of the country.

There would be choice, but I don't see much savings through competition.

Unless restrictions and/or regulations are instituted it would also undermine consumer protection that the public has fought long and hard for.


Curious...how would a federally funded pool save money?


LOL...behind closed doors? Every media and blogger has a representative camped out in all the legislative bathrooms.
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Thank you for adding some critical thought into the partisan rants that will no doubt plague this thread.
 
Dirty Harry said:
Yes, I did read them. They are not new and I doubt they would do what you claim. For example The state line issue stands out. All relevant insurance companies already sell insurance in every state.
As for tort reform. A few states have already done it with no change in insurance costs.
The insurance companies and healthcare providers will find ways to increase profits and the consumer will pay for it. The billions saved will not go to the consumer.
I am all for the common sense programs but the problem is much bigger than you care to admit.
Click to expand...

You are incorrect. For instance in the state of California you can only get Blue Shield or Aetna, unless you are an employee of the state.

That is two choices. There is no competition.

Your claims are opposed to reality.
 
that was schumer's baby all year

the intra-state monopolies enjoyed by very few providers

ron wyden too, another proud progressive, harped on it perpetually

of course, those guys kept angling for their public option

which they didn't get, did they?

but the domination of state markets by one or two insurers is a very real issue

on another front, the cbo yesterday outlined an accounting discrepency, separating reid from reality, of a QUARTER TRIL

reid uses the same quarter T to "finance new spending" and to "extend medicare's solvency"

cbo calls it "double counting"

no one argues with cbo

it's difficult reading, but it's right there

Budget Office Rebuts Democratic Claims on Medicare (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

reid also cynically counts on cuts that will never occur for a full half T

and then there's the doc fix, another 250B

all in all, it just doesn't add up
 
Dirty Harry said:
America doesn't even have a clue what the healthcare plan is. They are just thinking what they are told to think.
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In light of the fact virtually none of the democrats who voted for either the house or senate bills bothered to read these bills and republican senators were essentially locked out of discussions about the bill, I'd hazard a guess and say even our glorious leaders don't have a clue what the healthcare plan is either.
 
CrusaderRabbit08 said:
What can I say? I really enjoy watching conservatives getting screwed over :mrgreen:
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We are all in this together. It's no wonder we can get any real reform with attitudes like this.

In the end, it is the nation that is "screwed over".
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
This bill does nothing to reign in medical care cost inflation and may in fact cause prices to rise, especially for younger people who are already hindered in their income with the recession.

Things to expect;

Decreased accessibility for seniors to find doctors.

A general across the board rise in prices.

Employers dropping coverage because it's cheaper to pay the fine than pay part of an employees insurance.
Click to expand...

Sadly, I believe you are correct. We are witnesses government at its worst and yet a segment of the population (30%) or so... is cheering it on? I am somewhat confused by such a reaction. We could have had meaningful reform. What we got was pork, special interests, and a loss of freedom while watching the long term problem become worse.
 
The Truth said:
Sadly, I believe you are correct. We are witnesses government at its worst and yet a segment of the population (30%) or so... is cheering it on? I am somewhat confused by such a reaction. We could have had meaningful reform. What we got was pork, special interests, and a loss of freedom while watching the long term problem become worse.
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The majority of people who comment about medical care have no idea what drives it's cost inflation and prefer instead to resort to "my party beat your party, nah nah nah."
 
hazlnut said:
6 mos after the bill goes into effect, insurance companies will not longer be able to deny coverage to children based on pre-existing conditions. People without kids might not fully understand what this means, but on this one point, I think it's a step in the right direction.

Insurance companies can raise their rates, but the smart ones will figure about a better, more efficient way to do business. Offer better service at a more completive price.

Also, the insurance exchange will put the power back in the hands of the consumer. Policies will be rated according to cost and coverage and quality of service and we'll have more information. There are many things about both bills that I don't like; it's not perfect, but it is indeed a happy Christmas.
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They will ALL raise their rates.

It is far more efficient and cost effective business model than changing your corporate culture or process.

There is not enough competition thanks to government regulations. In California, unless you are a government employee... you can have Blue Shield or Aetna. There is not competition.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
The majority of people who comment about medical care have no idea what drives it's cost inflation and prefer instead to resort to "my party beat your party, nah nah nah."
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Sadly, you are correct. We are on the same team... but it is like watching the offense root against the defense and forgetting that we should be pulling for each other.
 
Dutch said:
In light of the fact virtually none of the democrats who voted for either the house or senate bills bothered to read these bills and republican senators were essentially locked out of discussions about the bill, I'd hazard a guess and say even our glorious leaders don't have a clue what the healthcare plan is either.
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You are probably right. It's too bad the two parties didn't work together over the years to come up with a decent plan. It's not like heathcare reform is something new. The problems are decades in the making. The republicans totally ignored the problem when they had the power to make changes and when the democrats try to do something they cry about it. Typical partisan politics and to hell with the country.
I heard the plan will cost over ten years less then we will have wasted in Iraq. That's not so much.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
This bill does nothing to reign in medical care cost inflation and may in fact cause prices to rise, especially for younger people who are already hindered in their income with the recession.

Things to expect;

Decreased accessibility for seniors to find doctors.

A general across the board rise in prices.

Employers dropping coverage because it's cheaper to pay the fine than pay part of an employees insurance.
Click to expand...

Have you read the bill?
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
This bill does nothing to reign in medical care cost inflation and may in fact cause prices to rise, especially for younger people who are already hindered in their income with the recession.

Things to expect;

Decreased accessibility for seniors to find doctors.

A general across the board rise in prices.

Employers dropping coverage because it's cheaper to pay the fine than pay part of an employees insurance.
Click to expand...


In other words, same as now.
 
The Truth said:
We are all in this together. It's no wonder we can get any real reform with attitudes like this.

In the end, it is the nation that is "screwed over".
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Reform is in the eye of the beholder. You see this issue as a negative for this country, while others see it as a positive. Funny how that works ;)

The left wants this, they're in the majority and they're going to get it. Kinda like how the right got things under Bush.

I find things like the Patriot Act and the War in Iraq to be just as harmful to this country (if not more so) as government healthcare. Yet the right championed these causes and told me to F off for not being a patriot.

Now that something they find to be just as distasteful to them is passing, they expect me to feel the same. Well, I won't. I have little compassion and absolutely no sympathy for them. Now their ox is getting gored ..good! It's the nature of partisan politics. I'll just sit here and relish the moment :mrgreen:
 
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