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Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

BTW here's a question for ya. On average emergency medical costs are around 30-40k, I'll even go as high as 60k. How is it possible for someone like me to own property that cost 45k? And it's fully paid off. Remember, I only make 14k gross per year.

Bit of info on the land when I bought it:

15 acres, no electricity, no house, no water.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Wrong, the private sector is doing the best it can with the mess that is health overregulation. This is the government's mess, not the private sectors.
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You can't be serious. You are pulling my leg aren't you?
The healthcare industry is the private sector and has congress in their pockets. Over-regulation? The insurance companies can pretty much do whatever they want. Charge what they want, pay what they want and insure who they want. Hospitals and clinics can do the same.
 
Kal'Stang said:
BTW here's a question for ya. On average emergency medical costs are around 30-40k, I'll even go as high as 60k. How is it possible for someone like me to own property that cost 45k? And it's fully paid off. Remember, I only make 14k gross per year.

Bit of info on the land when I bought it:

15 acres, no electricity, no house, no water.
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You make 14k a year and bought a piece of land for 45K? How and why?
 
Dirty Harry said:
You can't be serious. You are pulling my leg aren't you?
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Premiums are set based on cost and risk, cost comes from labor, price to provide testing, regulatory compliance, and other associated fees and taxes. Because of tort abuse over the years, many tests are ordered just to cover against lawsuits, even when it is painfully obvious what the patient has. Regulatory compliance is expensive, and many needless regulations add to the compliance costs that are already burdensome. Taxes and fees come from............

The healthcare industry is the private sector and has congress in their pockets. Over-regulation? The insurance companies can pretty much do whatever they want.
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Really, because all of the forms I am forced to sign, along with my clients, and many times in duplicate and triplicate are required by state and federal law, so no, insurance companies sure can't do "whatever they want", there is also a set rate in many states and the federal would love that power, so please, drop this naive and generalized view of the industry, it's much more complicated than the simple and idiotic DNC talking points.
Charge what they want, pay what they want and insure who they want.
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Complete bull****.
Hospitals and clinics can do the same.
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Also complete bull****, there are thousands of regulations that drive up the price of your visit before you even park your ass in the lobby, so stop this "private sector bad" rant while you still have some credibility.
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Dirty Harry said:
You make 14k a year and bought a piece of land for 45K? How and why?
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I worked for it and didn't buy any luxuries and didn't make minimum payments. Sure it wasn't easy. But it was done.

As for why? Why not? Doesn't everyone want their own piece of land to call home?
 
Kal'Stang said:
BTW here's a question for ya. On average emergency medical costs are around 30-40k, I'll even go as high as 60k. How is it possible for someone like me to own property that cost 45k? And it's fully paid off. Remember, I only make 14k gross per year.

Bit of info on the land when I bought it:

15 acres, no electricity, no house, no water.
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If you don't mind me asking, what kind of work do you do?
 
Kal'Stang said:
I've shown how they could afford it. Work more jobs and get rid of luxuries.
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No, you just made a claim, unsupported, and spewed a platitude.


The difference between individual states doing it and the federal government is that when it's done by the states it only applies to that state. No other state has to recognize it. In order to sue a company you must sue their home base...not just the branch which you live next to. This is when conflicting state laws can interfere. (I know it doesn't sound right but that is still the case of what actually happens) If the federal government does it then it applies across ALL states. There are no conflicting laws.
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Which has no bearing on the costs within the state that had tort reform, yet that state, the ones with tort reform, are doing no better than the few states without. The cost did not go down in those states, so you really haven't answered my question, which was about effectiveness of the reform and not about other states not having to follow it. It isn't a case of people still being sued.


$920 full coverage for 1 year. What's your health insurance cost you for 1 year?
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About that. Though my car insurance is more.

*looks around my house and at my bills* I think that I know a little bit about living also. I've paid every medical bill that I have ever had and was responsible for (IE since I was 18). With no outside help. While sure I've never been in an accident or seriously sick I have no doubt that I could still pay for any average emergency medical care that I needed.
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Your doubt is of no concern. Your actual ability is. I'm unconvinced of your claims.
 
Ethereal said:
Living within one's means; frugality; budgetary discipline; self-control; savings.
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And why?
How long did it take you to pay for it?
I will take a guess and say you were living with Mom while you were paying for it.
 
Dirty Harry said:
And why?
How long did it take you to pay for it?
I will take a guess and say you were living with Mom while you were paying for it.
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For about the first 2 years yes. That allowed me to get the downpayment needed (along with a loan). Took me 15 years along with selling the trees on it and 5 acres (the property was originally 20 acres).
 
Boo Radley said:
No, you just made a claim, unsupported, and spewed a platitude.
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Believe it or not. Not my problem.


Boo Radley said:
Which has no bearing on the costs within the state that had tort reform, yet that state, the ones with tort reform, are doing no better than the few states without. The cost did not go down in those states, so you really haven't answered my question, which was about effectiveness of the reform and not about other states not having to follow it. It isn't a case of people still being sued.
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It does when the main office is not located with in that state. When considering that most states only have 1-3 insurance companies it's not hard for those companies main offices to be in another state. Which makes the suing process take longer and cost more.
 
Kal'Stang said:
For about the first 2 years yes. That allowed me to get the downpayment needed (along with a loan). Took me 15 years along with selling the trees on it and 5 acres (the property was originally 20 acres).
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So you cheated. You were leeching off the folks, paying no rent allowing you to save money that would otherwise go to paying rent. 14 grand is a lot of money for a kid living at home. Been there.

So now you have 15 acres and still make $14,000 a year? Real estate has plummetted so what are you going to with it? Not to mention since all the good trees are gone it's value is less.
 
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Dirty Harry said:
So you cheated. You were leeching off the folks, paying no rent allowing you to save money that would otherwise go to paying rent. 14 grand is a lot of money for a kid living at home. Been there.
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Cheating? Hardly, family is better equipped to help their own than society, cheating would be using your neighbors resources to accomplish that goal, voluntary help is not even close to the same thing. But then again you haven't exactly showed the greatest judgement to this point.
Real estate has plummetted so what are you going to with it?
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Land always has a value, if you are willing to sit on it eventually it gains value, so your point makes no sense whatsoever, unless of course the current reps in Washington keep getting bills like this healthcare turd, Cap and Trade, etc.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Cheating? Hardly, family is better equipped to help their own than society, cheating would be using your neighbors resources to accomplish that goal, voluntary help is not even close to the same thing. But then again you haven't exactly showed the greatest judgement to this point.
Land always has a value, if you are willing to sit on it eventually it gains value, so your point makes no sense whatsoever, unless of course the current reps in Washington keep getting bills like this healthcare turd, Cap and Trade, etc.
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Leeching off your parents is the worst form. They volunteered their help feeling obligated because you were their son and you took advantage of it to enrich yourself. At least I paid my parents back when I was able.
Not shown the greatest judgement?
I have 500k in my 401k, a 550k home paid for and 150k in savings and CDs. All accomplished in less than 20 years. Don't worry about me, my judgement is fine. In your case having a piece of land and nothing else is not the smartest move.

Do you have health insurance? If not, this bill is for people like you. Not me.
 
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sure, if you don't have insurance this bill is for you

go buy it, says the bill

thanks, bill
 
The Prof said:
sure, if you don't have insurance this bill is for you

go buy it, says the bill

thanks, bill
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They should have to buy it. We should not have to pay for their healthcare.
 
Boo Radley said:
At less cost then they do now. Again, you pay right now.
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Except that claim of "less cost" is a mirage. Under government supervision costs will continue to rise putting further burden on the tax payers and ultimately the economy.
Dirty Harry said:
OK. I understand. You do believe it's OK for some to leech off others.

I really don't want government interference either but the private sector has shown they can not do the job. The profit motive is the major cause of inflated heathcare costs and it is draining every other sector of the economy. Our healthcare system is broken.

Hospitals have to treat you, insurance or not. It's law. Just go to any emergency room. The rest of us pay for that through higher premiums and costs. If you do not have insurance you should not be allowed to use the system the rest of us pay for.
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That claim that it is "draining other sectors of the economy" is interesting if you look deep into it, because despite decades of soaring costs, the economy and enterprise have experienced great growth and low unemployment over those same recent years.

Dirty Harry said:
The private sector doesn't have all the answers either. They have proven that over and over. There is just as much corruption in the private sector as in government. Hell, it's the same bunch of people.
Just look at Goldman Sachs, a huge player in the financial meltdown. It's CEO was also the secretary of the Treasury. What you fail to understand is that the private sector owns the government.


What is your solution to the healthcare problem?
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The solution is for America to stop believing healthcare is a civil right. Create a system paid for by humanitarian private donations that cares for those without insurance in their last days of life. Teach people that life and health is not guaranteed, and a proper nutritional living standard is the best insurance. And teach both the fit and the self abusers to accept their ultimate outcomes.

Otherwise, under our current cultural mindset, society will always default to a system where the uninsured "leech off" of those more capable. Whether by government demand, or private sector reaction to maintain profits.
 
Dirty Harry said:
They should have to buy it. We should not have to pay for their healthcare.
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"shoulds" have so little do with things

they're so boring and so for children

the only thing that matters and therefore is interesting is "is"

and they "do"

they "do" have to buy it

all the rest is hot air

congrats
 
Dirty Harry said:
They should have to buy it. We should not have to pay for their healthcare.
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What happens if they don't buy it? They are fined.

What happens if they don't pay the fine? They are prosecuted and ultimately jailed. Possibly, repeatedly if they never "rehabilitate". Or, their wages are garnished, bringing hardship to the family standard.

So, what will happen to all these people who are now forced toward incarceration or hardship by the healthcare system? ...

...they become wards to you and me, paid for by our tax dollars.

The government-at least this Progressive brand of it-is not the answer either.
 
and, yes, if you don't have insurance THIS BILL IS FOR YOU

LOL!
 
, Section 501 of the bill provides that an individual must be "covered by acceptable coverage at all times." "Acceptable coverage" includes "qualified health benefits plan coverage," "grandfathered health insurance coverage," "Medicare," "Medicaid," coverage provided to members of the armed forces and their dependants, "coverage under the veteran's health care program," people who receive health care "through the Indian Health Service," or other coverage deemed acceptable by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If a person does not have acceptable health care coverage, Section 501 imposes a tax on that person "not to exceed the applicable national average premium":

(a) TAX IMPOSED.-In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of-

(1) the taxpayer's modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over

(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

(b) LIMITATIONS.-

(1) TAX LIMITED TO AVERAGE PREMIUM.-

(A) IN GENERAL.-The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the applicable national average premium for such taxable year.
 
yup, that's the bill

good job, i guess

and, once more, always, congrats
 
Dirty Harry said:
Leeching off your parents is the worst form. They volunteered their help feeling obligated because you were their son and you took advantage of it to enrich yourself. At least I paid my parents back when I was able.
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Here is your problem, you think your opinion is the only way things can be done, you impose judgements on other people and cannot even debate without being condescending, not even really caring about others situations or needs/wants, so it is perfect that you hold a position of this bill being something good because you think you have all the answers.
Not shown the greatest judgement?
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See above.
I have 500k in my 401k, a 550k home paid for and 150k in savings and CDs. All accomplished in less than 20 years.
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Oh wow, man I'm impressed. :roll: Seriously I've seen plenty of that in my profession and more, you're right at the average.
Don't worry about me, my judgement is fine. In your case having a piece of land and nothing else is not the smartest move.
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You obviously don't know much about land values or sitting on an investment, that's okay, economic discipline isn't for everyone.

It's been real, but you don't add much to a debate and think you have it all figured out, so I'm gonna go ahead and put you on ignore now since there is nothing more to discuss with you.
 
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