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Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

the difference between car and health insurance is that you need car insurance to make sure you can pay for damages to Others. Health insurance is just covering costs you might incur, big difference.
 
the difference between car and health insurance is that you need car insurance to make sure you can pay for damages to Others. Health insurance is just covering costs you might incur, big difference.

Car insurance does both. It insures if you hit someone Else's car, and also if something happens to your car like a tree falling on that ****.
 
Is it just the different federal and state government, or do you see some other difference between mandating Health insurance and mandating auto insurance?

Yes.

Auto insurance is not mandated. Driving is a privilege in all 50 states. No one has to buy a car, or apply for a drivers license. Many make the choice to live close enough to work to ride a bike or walk. Others choose public transportation or a car pool.

Health Insurance as the current bill in congress is written requires citizens to purchase it. It is a federal mandate to buy a private commodity. I believe that is not constitutional and those making that statement have a point. You cannot force a U.S. citizen to buy a product because they were born.
 
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Yes.

Auto insurance is not mandated. Driving is a privilege in all 50 states. No one has to buy a car, or apply for a drivers license. Many make the choice to live close enough to work to ride a bike or walk. Others choose public transportation or a car pool.

Health Insurance as the current bill in congress is written requires citizens to purchase it. It is a federal mandate to buy a private commodity. I believe that is not constitutional and those making that statement have a point. You cannot force a U.S. citizen to buy a product because they were born.

But if they drive, it is a mandate that they have insurance, so they are ebing told to buy something.

True it is harder to opt out of care, though many don't buy, but receive care all the same, often through the most expensive avenue, the ER. If you can show me how they can opt out of care and not use care when needed, I might agree with you.
 
But if they drive, it is a mandate that they have insurance, so they are ebing told to buy something.

True it is harder to opt out of care, though many don't buy, but receive care all the same, often through the most expensive avenue, the ER. If you can show me how they can opt out of care and not use care when needed, I might agree with you.

If you drive you are required to have insurance beacuse you are putting others at risk each time you get out on the road, and there are millions of people doing this at a time across the nation.

With Health care...well...we don't always need it all the time, and it's more for if we ourselves get sick. And there's no privilege we're being granted that requires the responsibility of having health care.

but that's really not an argument for or against, it's just kinda eh.
 
But if they drive, it is a mandate that they have insurance, so they are ebing told to buy something.

True it is harder to opt out of care, though many don't buy, but receive care all the same, often through the most expensive avenue, the ER. If you can show me how they can opt out of care and not use care when needed, I might agree with you.

You are having an issue with the words "choice" and "forced".

By law, under this bill citizens are forced to buy the insurance.

By law, no one is forced to drive or buy auto insurance.

There is a huge difference. Driving a car is completely optional by law.
 
If you drive you are required to have insurance beacuse you are putting others at risk each time you get out on the road, and there are millions of people doing this at a time across the nation.

With Health care...well...we don't always need it all the time, and it's more for if we ourselves get sick. And there's no privilege we're being granted that requires the responsibility of having health care.

but that's really not an argument for or against, it's just kinda eh.

And if you need health care and are uninsured, someone else is having to pay for it. So, it involves others. Just because you can't pay doesn't mean it was free. And you need this every bit as much as auto insurance. More I'd say.
 
But if they drive, it is a mandate that they have insurance, so they are ebing told to buy something.

True it is harder to opt out of care, though many don't buy, but receive care all the same, often through the most expensive avenue, the ER. If you can show me how they can opt out of care and not use care when needed, I might agree with you.

You do see the key word there?
 
You are having an issue with the words "choice" and "forced".

By law, under this bill citizens are forced to buy the insurance.

By law, no one is forced to drive or buy auto insurance.

There is a huge difference. Driving a car is completely optional by law.

They are if they drive. Again, your distinction is a small one without any real difference. If we could choose not to need health care, like we choose not to drive, I would agree with you. But while many might think they don't need it, they are one tragedy away from having us, others, to take care of their mistake in judgment. As we have stated clearly as a nation we won't say too bad for you, and throw you out untreated, we have to address this. The premise behind both is the same, making sure others don;t pay for your error in judgment.
 
And if you need health care and are uninsured, someone else is having to pay for it.

In which way?Nobody ever picked up any of my bills when I was uninsured....I want to know where this gravy train is.
 
In which way?Nobody ever picked up any of my bills when I was uninsured....I want to know where this gravy train is.

If you didn't pay them, they did. Providers raised prices to cover those who didn't pay. Premiums went up due to those pay cost hikes. Everyone who is insured or can pay for their own, pays for those who can't pay. And maybe more than they would if they paid a tax.
 
I understand the words, but as I explained above, that is a distinction without a real difference.

I am a bit at a loss for words here.

Driving is completely optional.

Breathing is not.

Under this law, which appear to be highly unconstitutional, citizens for the very act of breathing are forced to purchase a commodity.

No one has ever been forced to buy auto insurance. They can choose with a free will not to drive.

I am not a Republican. I find the party corrupt. But, I cannot support something so entirely authoritarian that goes against the very essence of what it means to be an American.
 
And if you need health care and are uninsured, someone else is having to pay for it. So, it involves others. Just because you can't pay doesn't mean it was free. And you need this every bit as much as auto insurance. More I'd say.

I wonder what the payout/denial rate is for Auto Insurance vs Medical Insurance? And on average which costs more and is used more?
 
I am a bit at a loss for words here.

Driving is completely optional.

Breathing is not.

Under this law, which appear to be highly unconstitutional, citizens for the very act of breathing are forced to purchase a commodity.

No one has ever been forced to buy auto insurance. They can choose with a free will not to drive.

I am not a Republican. I find the party corrupt. But, I cannot support something so entirely authoritarian that goes against the very essence of what it means to be an American.

While you're right that driving is optional, that is what makes it optional to buy insurance. However, if driving were not optional, then buying auto insurance would not be optional, as the problem is with people not being able to afford the consequence of having an accident.

Health care meets this same criteria in that people cannot afford the consequences. The only difference is there is no way to opt out of needing care. But the premise is the same, we have to content with the consequences of actions we can't afford without insurance. Just like people had to pay for damage others caused and couldn't repair, if you are ill or injured severely enough, and you don't have the means or the insurance to cover you, all of us have to pay for it. The premise is the same.
 
I wonder what the payout/denial rate is for Auto Insurance vs Medical Insurance? And on average which costs more and is used more?

It would be interesting to see. I would guess medical.
 
If you didn't pay them, they did. Providers raised prices to cover those who didn't pay. Premiums went up due to those pay cost hikes. Everyone who is insured or can pay for their own, pays for those who can't pay. And maybe more than they would if they paid a tax.

Just words..........Unless there is evidence.
 
Just words..........Unless there is evidence.

True.

Using the ER as a clinic

More insured and uninsured consumers are getting their primary care in emergency rooms, wasting $14 billion every year in health care spending.

"This is an inappropriate use of the ER," said Dee Swanson, president of the American Academy of Nurse Practitioners. "You don't go to the ER for strep throat."

Since emergency rooms are legally obligated to treat all patients, Swanson said providers ultimately find ways to pass on the cost for treating the uninsured to other patients, such as to those who pay out-of-pocket for their medical care.

Dees also took issue with consumers who don't get primary care for their diabetes or blood pressure on a timely basis, hence finding themselves in the ER.

"Going to the doctor for strep throat would cost $65-$70. In the ER, it's $600 to $800," he said.

Health care's six money-wasting problems - Aug. 10, 2009

Using the emergency room as a clinic

Because emergency rooms are legally obligated to treat all patients, more insured and uninsured patients are getting their primary care in emergency rooms. An emergency room visit for a routine condition can cost 10 times what the same medical care would cost at an urgent care clinic. Not only are unnecessary emergency room visits a waste of medical resources, many uninsured patients cannot or do not pay their emergency room bills, and medical providers ultimately find ways to pass on the costs to insured patients and uninsured patients who do pay out-of-pocket.

Health-Care Dollars down the Drain


However, this does seem like something that is self evident. Nothing is free. Cost has to be made up somehow.
 
While you're right that driving is optional, that is what makes it optional to buy insurance.

Thank you for admitting the point finally. That was all that mattered in your post the rest was meaningless legally. What someone can or cannot afford has zero legal bearing.

You realize we are discussing a legal point here?

How old are you? Teen, Twenties, etc???

I am not trying to be insulting.... I just want to understand the audience.
 
Thank you for admitting the point finally. That was all that mattered in your post the rest was meaningless legally. What someone can or cannot afford has zero legal bearing.

You realize we are discussing a legal point here?

How old are you? Teen, Twenties, etc???

I am not trying to be insulting.... I just want to understand the audience.

No, you're not following. It isn't about what they can afford, entirely. It is what it costs others. You have it wrong. The legal premise is the same.

Fifty one.
 
True.

Using the ER as a clinic

More insured and uninsured consumers are getting their primary care in emergency rooms, wasting $14 billion every year in health care spending.

"This is an inappropriate use of the ER," said Dee Swanson, president of the American Academy of Nurse Practitioners. "You don't go to the ER for strep throat."

Since emergency rooms are legally obligated to treat all patients, Swanson said providers ultimately find ways to pass on the cost for treating the uninsured to other patients, such as to those who pay out-of-pocket for their medical care.

Dees also took issue with consumers who don't get primary care for their diabetes or blood pressure on a timely basis, hence finding themselves in the ER.

"Going to the doctor for strep throat would cost $65-$70. In the ER, it's $600 to $800," he said.

Health care's six money-wasting problems - Aug. 10, 2009

Using the emergency room as a clinic

Because emergency rooms are legally obligated to treat all patients, more insured and uninsured patients are getting their primary care in emergency rooms. An emergency room visit for a routine condition can cost 10 times what the same medical care would cost at an urgent care clinic. Not only are unnecessary emergency room visits a waste of medical resources, many uninsured patients cannot or do not pay their emergency room bills, and medical providers ultimately find ways to pass on the costs to insured patients and uninsured patients who do pay out-of-pocket.

Health-Care Dollars down the Drain


However, this does seem like something that is self evident. Nothing is free. Cost has to be made up somehow.

:rofl Seems like a drop in the bucket to me.

chart_health_care_waste2.gif
 
Just words..........Unless there is evidence.

Just saw this:

It is a simple fact that it is the uninsured who are driving up the cost of healthcare for everyone.

Here are the facts.

In 2005, there were 44.8 million who had no medical insurance. In 2006, that number had grown to 47 million. Presently, it is estimated that there are 50 million who have no coverage, and that number will rise to over 52 million at the end of 2010.

As a former director of a hospital emergency department seeing over 50,000 patients annually, I am very aware of how the medical system works.

Anytime an uninsured person enters a hospital emergency department and registers in, the minute they cross the threshold, the hospital is mandated to (1) evaluate, and (2) make a disposition of the individual.

That disposition may be to: (1) reassure that no treatment is required; (2) provide appropriate treatment; (3) admit to the facility; or (4) make a referral.

If the hospital is unwilling to evaluate and make a disposition, it will lose reimbursement from Medicare and Medicaid programs, which is tantamount to financial suicide.

No matter what the ultimate disposition, the hospital incurs costs that are not reimbursed.

Hospitals have huge fixed costs which must be covered in order to operate the facility. Also, hospitals must have available resources to constantly be able to invest in new technologies in order to best provide service for those seeking care.

Thus is set in motion the unrelenting, upward spiral of ever-increasing medical costs.

1. The uninsured numbers are constantly increasing.
2. The unreimbursed expenses incurred by hospitals in treating those ever-increasing numbers of the uninsured are constantly increasing.
3. Hospitals must increase their charges in order to cover the ever-increasing costs of treating the uninsured.
4. Medical insurance companies must increase the premiums of those they insure in order to pay for the increased hospital charges when their insureds seek treatment.
5. Each time insurance premiums increase, another portion of the population opts out of carrying insurance. Individuals or companies reach a point, finally, when they can no longer afford insurance, and individual policyholders or employees of companies which drop their benefits enter into the pool of the uninsured.
6. More uninsured people = increased, unreimbursed hospital costs = increased hospital charges = increased insurance premiums = more uninsured people.... The upward spiral is incessant.

The pressure created by the ever-increasing number of the uninsured is the driving force behind the ever-increasing cost of medical care in the United States. That force is unrelenting. It can only accelerate. It has created a system which is unsustainable.

One ER doc's take on what's driving healthcare costs inexorably higher | Opinion L.A. | Los Angeles Times
 
:rofl Seems like a drop in the bucket to me.

chart_health_care_waste2.gif

So, your argument is if there is more than one cause, it isn't valid?

A few of those actually relate to my argument. The ER was just one example. If you look, what I linked included those. All of it is related to not being able to pay for proper treatment at some level (doesn't mean everyone can't, but many can't). .
 
If you drive you are required to have insurance beacuse you are putting others at risk each time you get out on the road, and there are millions of people doing this at a time across the nation.

With Health care...well...we don't always need it all the time, and it's more for if we ourselves get sick. And there's no privilege we're being granted that requires the responsibility of having health care.

but that's really not an argument for or against, it's just kinda eh.

People do need healthcare all the time. Ever heard of something called preventive medicine? You need to go to doctor and get those annual check-ups.
 
So, your argument is if there is more than one cause, it isn't valid?

I see no evidence that the other money wasters are primarily from the uninsured.
 
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