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Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

j-mac said:
You may not be personally, I understand that. But, Obama is.


j-mac
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Obama is in agreement with Chavez? Come on J-Mac you can do better than that. :roll:
 
Chappy said:
Tens of millions without health insurance. Tens of thousands dying for lack of coverage. Costs increasing by double or triple the rate inflation each year.

You know, that status quo.
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The Quebec Supreme Court ruled that waiting lists (Health Insurance) does not constitute medical care.

The Kanuckistani's... they are really going to hurt when this crap hits the fan. Their people will really pay with loss of life.

Then we will.

I have to admit, the Dems have done a masterful job.

1. They create a school system that doesn't educate.
2. They create a school system hostile to the American way of life.
3. They create an atmosphere of moral relativity.
4. They use and abuse it to push anti-American legislation on the masses.

Of course they need a propaganda machine to assist, and they have that too. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...iJmKBA&usg=AFQjCNFJ_8vWwSSMxpllDfCyEqwtibBfQw

It can take as little as a generation to accomplish this... it has taken them a few.

.
 
zimmer said:
The Quebec Supreme Court ruled that waiting lists (Health Insurance) does not constitute medical care.

The Kanuckistani's... they are really going to hurt when this crap hits the fan. Their people will really pay with loss of life.

Then we will.

I have to admit, the Dems have done a masterful job.

1. They create a school system that doesn't educate.
2. They create a school system hostile to the American way of life.
3. They create an atmosphere of moral relativity.
4. They use and abuse it to push anti-American legislation on the masses.

Of course they need a propaganda machine to assist, and they have that too. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...iJmKBA&usg=AFQjCNFJ_8vWwSSMxpllDfCyEqwtibBfQw

It can take as little as a generation to accomplish this... it has taken them a few.

.
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All partisan blow or exaggerated media hype. As someone that is married to an educator, and has substituted at several public school systems, our public school system is perfectly capable of doing a good job of education. However for that to happen three things have to happen:

1. The student needs to want to learn.

2. The parents need to care and get involved in their child's education to motivate the child.

3. The politicians need to get out of the hair of the educators and allow the educators to do their job and stop coming up with under or unfunded mandates or ridiculous requirements. My wife spends an inordinate amount of time just dealing with the bull**** the politicians come up with vs. actual teaching time. She spends at least 15 hours a day at school just to get everything done because of that crap.

BTW to put all this on a one political party is so silly it's almost laughable. So Bush's NCLB flop was a democrat thing? Please. :roll:
 
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EnigmaO01 said:
What proof do you need? If you have a preexisting condition you're SOL. Or if your bill gets too high for your cancer treatment and the insurance company cuts you off you are left to die also. This is common knowledge. Do you live under a rock?
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That is both not true, and it does not address American's request.
 
I really hope some people go to prison over this when the new majority takes hold in '10, there are kickbacks, unethical maneuvers, perjuries, and many other high crimes and misdemeanors that are just begging to be prosecuted.
 
EpicDude86 said:
And maybe 10 times that NOT dying from lack of coverage.
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I've never seen a single obituary that said someone died from "lack of medical coverage", then again, I realize that diseases, injuries and medical conditions kill people, not political arguments from political hacks like the DNC.
 
upsideguy said:
What "the people want" is a very old concept in american politics. Its what the corporatists want that matters... and they don't want healthcare reform. Though, I bet they are pretty happy with result, as the reform has been so watered down there isn't much meat to it anymore.
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That's a load of bull.

If the Statists' healthcare takeover was something that an overwhelming majority of the American people "wanted for so long", it would have been enshrined in to law regardless of whatever special interest or corporation was opposed to it.

The Statist is quite adept at presenting their ideas for reform as the only ideas for reform.

The Statist also is skillful at presenting the failures of their legislative agenda as being due to a conspiracy by some powerful interest.
 
WI Crippler said:
My wife saves all kinds of peoples lives that may or may not have coverage. Imagine that.
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So, it wasn't "lack of health insurance coverage" that was killing them huh? Imagine that, it was an actual medical emergency, yet another thing the pro-UHC crowd can't differentiate.
 
LaMidRighter said:
So, it wasn't "lack of health insurance coverage" that was killing them huh? Imagine that, it was an actual medical emergency, yet another thing the pro-UHC crowd can't differentiate.
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I'll even give you one better. For the ones that were able to recover, insurance or lack thereof also had nothing to do with it.
 
LaMidRighter said:
So, it wasn't "lack of health insurance coverage" that was killing them huh? Imagine that, it was an actual medical emergency, yet another thing the pro-UHC crowd can't differentiate.
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The argument(and whether it is true or not I do not know) is that those without health coverage cannot get preventative care that those with health coverage can get. I believe the number who die is exaggerated(I seem to remember factcheck covered that claim), but that it is a problem. Whether that is reason enough to support the congressional bills is a matter for people to decide for themselves. Let's not exaggerate what is being said, or make obviously misleading statements.
 
Redress said:
The argument(and whether it is true or not I do not know) is that those without health coverage cannot get preventative care that those with health coverage can get. I believe the number who die is exaggerated(I seem to remember factcheck covered that claim), but that it is a problem. Whether that is reason enough to support the congressional bills is a matter for people to decide for themselves. Let's not exaggerate what is being said, or make obviously misleading statements.
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If the government simply wanted to provide some kind of public option for preventative care, I don't think too many people would have minded. But the health"care" bills being bandied about DC have nothing to do with that.
 
WI Crippler said:
If the government simply wanted to provide some kind of public option for preventative care, I don't think too many people would have minded. But the health"care" bills being bandied about DC have nothing to do with that.
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That is not the point I am arguing. I am arguing that the numbers claimed about people dying due to lack heath care coverage is not due to lack of catastrophic care, but preventative care.
 
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Redress said:
That is not the point I am arguing. I am arguing that the numbers claimed about people dying due to lack heath care coverage is not due to lack of catastrophic care, but preventative care.
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The whole healthcare debate has centered on health insurance access or lack thereof. Its a valid point to make, whether you are arguing it or not. In fact, it seems my point would address the point you are trying to argue by showing that there could be a solution, if Congress went about it right.
 
Redress said:
That is not the point I am arguing. I am arguing that the numbers claimed about people dying due to lack heath care coverage is not due to lack of catastrophic care, but preventative care.
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And I guarantee that the argument is bull****, in Louisiana there is a charity hospital system, it reduces costs for those who can pay something and provides care for those who cannot pay, outside of that, plenty of charities exist to help the poor and uninsured, I don't need a federal government to act like a charity, at my expense, and involuntarily. Besides, preventative care is suspiciously absent in many UHC systems by default, in other words, you might get the procedure, but months after it would be medically beneficial.

Again, every SINGLE senator and congressman that votes for this turd belongs in prison, and I seriously hope they are sent there in '10.
 
Redress said:
The argument(and whether it is true or not I do not know) is that those without health coverage cannot get preventative care that those with health coverage can get. I believe the number who die is exaggerated(I seem to remember factcheck covered that claim), but that it is a problem. Whether that is reason enough to support the congressional bills is a matter for people to decide for themselves. Let's not exaggerate what is being said, or make obviously misleading statements.
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While we're at it, let's pushe Universal Car Care from the Government too, because many people's cars, especially those whom depend on their car most, go without this care and eventually it will cost them much more down the road, and unlike medical care, when your car breaks, there's no law requiring a mechanic to fix it.

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!
 
I think I'll write a children's book: "How the Democrats stole Christmas" it'll entail the very Grinch like practices of raising taxes for "carbon sins"(Cap and Tax), their flawed idea of great health care("health reform"), their typical spread the wealth taxes, both of their bailout bills AND the talks of the third one. But there is no happy ending in this one, "sorry little Billy, Santa was taxed out of his ability to get you a firetruck, and little susie, you wanted a dolly, tough break, mommy and daddy had to pay for your neighbors health care because the Democrats said so, too bad, but hey, it's better you learn that life aint fair early, cause you're gonna be paying for these incompetant decisions for years to come.":doh
 
WI Crippler said:
The whole healthcare debate has centered on health insurance access or lack thereof. Its a valid point to make, whether you are arguing it or not. In fact, it seems my point would address the point you are trying to argue by showing that there could be a solution, if Congress went about it right.
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Right, and all that is fine. But to say people are not dying because of lack of health insurance because they can get catastrophic health care is false. That is the whole, and the entirety of my argument. This whole debate has been characterized by lies and misleading statements by people on both sides, and sometimes it is important to point these out. Both the claims of 10's of thousands dead due to lack of health coverage, and the claim that no one is dying because there is catastrophic care for any one who wants it are misleading and false.
 
Redress said:
Right, and all that is fine. But to say people are not dying because of lack of health insurance because they can get catastrophic health care is false. That is the whole, and the entirety of my argument. This whole debate has been characterized by lies and misleading statements by people on both sides, and sometimes it is important to point these out. Both the claims of 10's of thousands dead due to lack of health coverage, and the claim that no one is dying because there is catastrophic care for any one who wants it are misleading and false.
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You're right about the lies and misleading info, however, the lies on the "Anti-UHC" side of the debate will cost me less ;)
 
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LaMidRighter said:
And I guarantee that the argument is bull****, in Louisiana there is a charity hospital system, it reduces costs for those who can pay something and provides care for those who cannot pay, outside of that, plenty of charities exist to help the poor and uninsured, I don't need a federal government to act like a charity, at my expense, and involuntarily. Besides, preventative care is suspiciously absent in many UHC systems by default, in other words, you might get the procedure, but months after it would be medically beneficial.

Again, every SINGLE senator and congressman that votes for this turd belongs in prison, and I seriously hope they are sent there in '10.
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Not only inaccurate, but over the top rhetoric. Let me give you an example from my own experience. My father went to the doctor because he started to have a bunch of little brown bumps on the skin of his abdomen. He could do this because to visit the doctor was 10 dollars through his health coverage. Turned out, he had non hodgkins lymphoma....cancer. He got a fair number of years that he would not have had simply because he was able to go to the doctor for what he thought was a minor problem. Charity medical clinics are not somewhere you go for things like this. Charities are great, but they do not solve all problems.

Now you can disagree with the health care proposals, I got no problem with that. I am not entirely sold on either, and am opposed to a single payer or public option, at least at this time. This does not mean that there are not both real need for reform, and real reasons why some one might support these bills. Stupidity like saying people should be locked up for voting for this is over the top, and just lowers the level of discourse.
 
EpicDude86 said:
While we're at it, let's pushe Universal Car Care from the Government too, because many people's cars, especially those whom depend on their car most, go without this care and eventually it will cost them much more down the road, and unlike medical care, when your car breaks, there's no law requiring a mechanic to fix it.

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!
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What this thread needs is a juvenile post that adds nothing to the discussion. Thanks for taking care of that.
 
EpicDude86 said:
You're right about the lies and misleading info, however, the lies on the "Anti-UHC" side of the debate will cost me less ;)
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That is an assumption that is not necessarily true. Catastrophic health care is expensive, and you do pay for it.
 
Redress said:
That is an assumption that is not necessarily true. Catastrophic health care is expensive, and you do pay for it.
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How so? I'm broke. I'm not paying for anything atm. :( Wait, is that WHY I'm broke? ****.
 
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