• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

“Today is a major step forward for the American people. After a nearly century-long struggle we are on the cusp of making healthcare reform a reality in the United States of America.” — President Barack Obama¹

Huzzah!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't slaves get medical care as a matter of course? Since that appears to be the path we wish to dance a merry jig down, I assume that health care will indeed be one of the benefits of becoming the property of the Ruling Class.
 
Not really. You mean the fabricated claims of the attendance at the "Tea party" that was orchestrated by the right wing FAUX news or the misinformed and purposely disruptive few at the town hall meetings? I loved your obviously well informed woman that chanted she didn't want the government to get it's hands on Medicare. Hey lady! Medicare is the government! :doh And then there was the genius that asked Barny Frank a Jew why he was supporting a "Nazi policy?" I'm sorry I refuse to insult the American people and try and sell the sham that this is MOST of the people. If it is we are in deep trouble.

Some of you people keep telling the rest of us that MOST PEOPLE are against health care reform just because you are not for it. Just saying it's so doesn't make it so.

The fact that it's so makes it so.

Health Care Reform - Rasmussen Reports

How ridiculous of an argument. The status quo is exactly what some want and make no bones about saying so. How it can't be part of this debate and inappropriately be called a straw-man is absurd. Do you even know what a straw-man is?

It is a strawman. Just because the Republicans in Congress currently can't put anything forward because they're such a minority, doesn't mean they hate all reform. Find me a quote by a single Republican Senator proving that they don't want health care to be reformed at all, and then we'll talk.
 
The Democrats have embraced “big tent” politics, so major initiatives are often quite challenging when not a single vote can be spared. At the end of the day (year?) progress has been achieved and we should be grateful for that.
You do know that from its point of view, a tumor's growth is progress too, yes?

Is not decay the progress of soil enrichment? I believe that senility if the progress of eld, as well.

The progress whereby iron comes into existence is the supernova.

The progress of entropy is chaos.

The progress of crime is wealth and prosperity for miscreants.

Syphilis represents the progress of harlotry.

In this light, yes I suppose that we have had progress today.
 
Last edited:
… Tort reform to reign in the trial lawyers alone would lead to lower healthcare costs due to all of the unnecessary test that doctors would be free to forgo and not charge insurance for.

If the opposition party floated a bill with only tort-reform, would your opposition to such a bill be wanting to maintain the status quo?

The idea that tort reform alone could provide serious health care cost containment is, by most people familiar with the topic, a canard.

“If you were to eliminate medical malpractice liability, even forgetting the negative consequences that would have for safety, accountability, and responsiveness, maybe we’d be talking about 1.5 percent of health care costs. So we’re not talking about real money. It’s small relative to the out-of-control cost of health care.” — Tom Baker, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School and author of “The Medical Malpractice Myth.”¹

“If you were to list the top five or ten things that you could do to bring down health care costs that would not be on the list.” — Michelle Mello, a professor of Law and Public Health at Harvard.²

Excerpted from “Tort Reform Unlikely to Cut Health Care Costs; Studies Show Malpractice Awards Are Not Big Driver of Skyrocketing Costs” By Daphne Eviatar, The Washington Independent, 8/19/09 6:00 AM
[SIZE="+2"]A[/SIZE]mid the obstructionists’ claims that health care reform is “socialist” or a means of speeding Grandma towards her deathbed, a large focus of the conservative position on health care reform has been that frivolous lawsuits drive up health care costs and require doctors to practice “defensive medicine” that’s costly and wasteful. …

The health economists and independent legal experts who study the issue, however, don’t believe that’s true. They say that malpractice liability costs are a small fraction of the spiraling costs of the U.S. health care system, and that the medical errors that malpractice liability tries to prevent are themselves a huge cost– both to the injured patients and to the health care system as a whole. …
 
You do know that from its point of view, a tumor's growth is progress too, yes?

Is not decay the progress of soil enrichment? I believe that senility if the progress of eld, as well.

The progress whereby iron comes into existence is the supernova.

The progress of entropy is chaos.

The progress of crime is wealth and prosperity for miscreants.

Syphilis represents the progress of harlotry.

In this light, yes I suppose that we have had progress today.

Do you know my point of view? Ridiculous hyperbole is sad.
 
The idea that tort reform alone could provide serious health care cost containment is, by most people familiar with the topic, a canard.

“If you were to eliminate medical malpractice liability, even forgetting the negative consequences that would have for safety, accountability, and responsiveness, maybe we’d be talking about 1.5 percent of health care costs. So we’re not talking about real money. It’s small relative to the out-of-control cost of health care.” — Tom Baker, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School and author of “The Medical Malpractice Myth.”¹

“If you were to list the top five or ten things that you could do to bring down health care costs that would not be on the list.” — Michelle Mello, a professor of Law and Public Health at Harvard.²

All of the opinions that you provided are in agreement that tort reform would reduce costs - just not as significant as is portrayed by some.

Although they may disagree to the actual cost savings in reigning in trial lawyers would be, they do agree that it would account for something. 2% is something.

Contrast that with this bill that has so many potential unintended consequences that could reasonably lead to higher healthcare costs.
 
“If we don't do this, nobody argues with the fact that health care costs are going to consume the entire federal budget.” — President Barack Obama¹

“If we don't pass it, here's the guarantee: Your premiums will go up, your employers are going to load up more costs on you ... Potentially they're going to drop your coverage, because they just can't afford an increase of 25 percent, 30 percent in terms of the costs of providing health care to employees each and every year.” — President Barack Obama²

The clear and present danger to liberty is the status quo.

The BULL SHIITE Obama is spewing is directly out of CONVICTED FELON Robert Creamers how to book that Obama is using as a guide book or as I prefer to call it a how to book for idiots.

Evey step of the way Obama has used Alenskey Rules for Radicals, Karl Marx, Adolph Hitler, and others to show him the way and fools have eaten it up as original thought. It was BS when written and it will be BS after Obama gets his ways a destroys this Nation which has been his goal from the start to over burden the system. Which right out of the Cloward/Piven Strategy.

We are in for Tyranny that will not end in a nice peaceful way and even the damn fools who have fallen for the Charlatan in Chief Obama are going to get to suffer along with the rest of us because they are not smart enough to know what history tells us always results when from this.
Guten Tag!
 
I know your position, only you can open your eyes and gain a valid point of view. I wish you well in the endeavour.
 
“If we don't do this, nobody argues with the fact that health care costs are going to consume the entire federal budget.” — President Barack Obama¹

“If we don't pass it, here's the guarantee: Your premiums will go up, your employers are going to load up more costs on you ... Potentially they're going to drop your coverage, because they just can't afford an increase of 25 percent, 30 percent in terms of the costs of providing health care to employees each and every year.” — President Barack Obama²

The clear and present danger to liberty is the status quo.

The BULL SHIITE Obama is spewing is directly out of CONVICTED FELON Robert Creamers how to book that Obama is using as a guide book or as I prefer to call it a how to book for idiots.

Evey step of the way Obama has used Alenskey Rules for Radicals, Karl Marx, Adolph Hitler, and others to show him the way and fools have eaten it up as original thought. It was BS when written and it will be BS after Obama gets his ways a destroys this Nation which has been his goal from the start to over burden the system. Which right out of the Cloward/Piven Strategy.

We are in for Tyranny that will not end in a nice peaceful way and even the damn fools who have fallen for the Charlatan in Chief Obama are going to get to suffer along with the rest of us because they are not smart enough to know what history tells us always results when from this.
Guten Tag!
 
We are in for Tyranny that will not end in a nice peaceful way and even the damn fools who have fallen for the Charlatan in Chief Obama are going to get to suffer along with the rest of us because they are not smart enough to know what history tells us always results when from this.

Well, you could always leave the country if it's so awful here. :2wave:
 
Nothing like a bribe to make a democrat forget about morals.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIt6UHQP6Ys"]YouTube- Cornhusker Kickback: Dems Give Nebraska Special Medicaid Break For Life For Nelson's Vote[/ame]
 
Well, you could always leave the country if it's so awful here. :2wave:

We kept telling people that when Bush was in office, but some of you stuck it out to get the country going in the direction you wanted. Please don't take offense if some of us that are unhappy with Obama stick around and try and change some things.
 
And yet the opposition to this bill provided no alternatives, just obstruction: sounds like an endorsement of the status quo to me.

Endorsement of the status quo. You mean the government continually spending money it doesn't have? That Status Quo?
 
The BULL SHIITE Obama is spewing is directly out of CONVICTED FELON Robert Creamers how to book that Obama is using as a guide book or as I prefer to call it a how to book for idiots.

Evey step of the way Obama has used Alenskey Rules for Radicals, Karl Marx, Adolph Hitler, and others to show him the way and fools have eaten it up as original thought. It was BS when written and it will be BS after Obama gets his ways a destroys this Nation which has been his goal from the start to over burden the system. Which right out of the Cloward/Piven Strategy.

We are in for Tyranny that will not end in a nice peaceful way and even the damn fools who have fallen for the Charlatan in Chief Obama are going to get to suffer along with the rest of us because they are not smart enough to know what history tells us always results when from this.
Guten Tag!

Speaking of ridiculous nonsensical hyperbole. Dude you get the Boobie prize! :rofl:rofl:rofl

Auf Wiedersehen!
 
Last edited:
We kept telling people that when Bush was in office, but some of you stuck it out to get the country going in the direction you wanted. Please don't take offense if some of us that are unhappy with Obama stick around and try and change some things.

I believe you have that bassakwards my friend. We are quite happy now. It is you who are livid. :mrgreen:
 
Endorsement of the status quo. You mean the government continually spending money it doesn't have? That Status Quo?

Tens of millions without health insurance. Tens of thousands dying for lack of coverage. Costs increasing by double or triple the rate inflation each year.

You know, that status quo.
 
Last edited:
If Obama's leftist healthcare reform was something that the American people really wanted all these years, there wouldn't have ever been any considerable "struggle" to pass it.

The "struggle" has always been to cloak the desires of the power-mad central-planners as being something for the good of the people.

What "the people want" is a very old concept in american politics. Its what the corporatists want that matters... and they don't want healthcare reform. Though, I bet they are pretty happy with result, as the reform has been so watered down there isn't much meat to it anymore.
 
Higher Insurance Premiums for all!!!!
and to all a good ****ing!!!
Merry Christmas!!!

Short term (political) gain, for long term national pain.

.
 
“Today is a major step forward for the American people. After a nearly century-long struggle we are on the cusp of making healthcare reform a reality in the United States of America.” — President Barack Obama¹
Huzzah!
Century long struggle?
 
Tens of millions without health insurance. Tens of thousands dying for lack of coverage. Costs increasing by double or triple the rate inflation each year.

You know, that status quo.
Proof please. BTW, prove every American will now have insurance.
 
Tens of millions without health insurance. Tens of thousands dying for lack of coverage. Costs increasing by double or triple the rate inflation each year.

You know, that status quo.

So can you show me where THIS bill will change any of that?
 
You know I've been pondering this for a while now. Isn't it strange how in the Global warming debates, 'man is the problem', but inversely in this debate 'we must save man'..... How does that square?

Could it possibly be that those who are in agreement with Hugo Chavez that Capitalism is the root of evil today, that we must destroy it?

And how better to accomplish this than to attack it on several fronts and overwhelm the system.


j-mac
 
You know I've been pondering this for a while now. Isn't it strange how in the Global warming debates, 'man is the problem', but inversely in this debate 'we must save man'..... How does that square?

Could it possibly be that those who are in agreement with Hugo Chavez that Capitalism is the root of evil today, that we must destroy it?

And how better to accomplish this than to attack it on several fronts and overwhelm the system.


j-mac


I can assure you I am not in any agreement with Hugo Chavez. He's got to be one of the dumbest leaders out there right now. It's no wonder he and retardo Ahmadinejad are buddies.
 
I can assure you I am not in any agreement with Hugo Chavez. He's got to be one of the dumbest leaders out there right now. It's no wonder he and retardo Ahmadinejad are buddies.


You may not be personally, I understand that. But, Obama is.


j-mac
 
Proof please. BTW, prove every American will now have insurance.

What proof do you need? If you have a preexisting condition you're SOL. Or if your bill gets too high for your cancer treatment and the insurance company cuts you off you are left to die also. This is common knowledge. Do you live under a rock?
 
Back
Top Bottom