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Iran Test-Fires Its Longest-Range Missile

Polynikes

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TEHRAN, Iran — Iran on Wednesday test-fired an upgraded version of its most advanced missile, which is capable of hitting Israel and parts of Europe, in a new show of strength aimed at preventing any military strike against it amid the nuclear standoff with the West.


I'm thinking Israel might wait until about March or April before hitting Iran. I just don't see any other outcome appearing realistic at this stage.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580341,00.html?test=latestnews
 
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How long until I get drafted into a war that has nothing to do with me?
 
How long until I get drafted into a war that has nothing to do with me?

After you're paying 15 bucks a gallon for gas, because if Israel hits Iran, the flow of oil from the ME will be all but cut off.
 
How long until I get drafted into a war that has nothing to do with me?

Ask the Mullahs. They are spinning uranium and firing rockets with range...and accuracy. They have been buying serious technology from China and Russia as far as weaponry is concerned, they have airborne launch capability already, they are developing weapons that can deliver a warhead of substantial size.

When or if they develop or acquire a nuclear weapon, the entire equation in the ME changes. The entire geo-political reality changes....not only in that part of the world, but yes, right here on your shores that you "have nothing to do with."

We sleep fairly snug these evenings, we know Israel and France, India and England, China and the US all have weapons of mass destruction that could make Nagasaki look like a firecracker. Iran develops or gets its hands on this technology....and you've a new reality, no one gets no sleep, no more. Yer gonna be wide eyed and awake, yer gonna be lookin for someone to point a finger at asking how we got here in the first place.

And we're all gonna be looking right back at you. It's your pre 9-11 mentality that will bite us in the arse again.:cool:
 
Pre 9-11 mentality? Is your mentality the one that says that only we and our friends are allowed to build up our defenses, even nuclear defenses? Does your mentality state that we must destroy another nation that builds up its military even if it does not threaten us? It's my contention that we should build up our defenses rather than plan attacks. When we attack, our defense naturally less than it otherwise could be, plus we make ourselves more prone to attack due to blowback.
 
Pre 9-11 mentality?

Yes.

Is your mentality the one that says that only we and our friends are allowed to build up our defenses, even nuclear defenses?

Absolutely.

Does your mentality state that we must destroy another nation that builds up its military even if it does not threaten us?

No. India for example.

It's my contention that we should build up our defenses rather than plan attacks.

Pre 9-11 mentality billboard.

When we attack, our defense naturally less than it otherwise could be, plus we make ourselves more prone to attack due to blowback.

Go look at where the twin towers used to sit...then tell me all about blowback. Our warships being attacked and we sit here. They bomb a twin tower...we sit here. They declare jihad, issue a fatwa, bomb an embassy, behead a journalist...and we just sit here...apparently fearing your 'blowback.'

I would suggest we gift wrap some blowforward for Iran this Xmas and Grinch it on over there, we can even disguise the B-2 as a Santa sleigh if you'd like. I think you'll find an Osirak type attack on Iran's nuclear facilities sets them back a decade and sends a message as well. Ho ho ho.
 
Pre 9-11 mentality? Is your mentality the one that says that only we and our friends are allowed to build up our defenses, even nuclear defenses? Does your mentality state that we must destroy another nation that builds up its military even if it does not threaten us? It's my contention that we should build up our defenses rather than plan attacks. When we attack, our defense naturally less than it otherwise could be, plus we make ourselves more prone to attack due to blowback.

The best defensive plan factors in an offensive response. Attack, or counter attack, there always has to be a plan to strike the enemy. So, not planning an attack strategy would be ultimately fatal to our national security.
 
The best defensive plan factors in an offensive response. Attack, or counter attack, there always has to be a plan to strike the enemy. So, not planning an attack strategy would be ultimately fatal to our national security.

Stop talking common sense and reason
 
How so?........

Our history of meddling in the internal affairs of other nations, propping up dictators, toppling a government, imposing sanctions and embargoes, supporting Israel, placing US troops on their soil, etc, etc.

What haven't we done to piss these people off? At some point, some will say enough is enough and strike back.

It's called blowback and not unexpected. Our problems are the direct result of an interventionist foreign policy.
 
Our history of meddling in the internal affairs of other nations, propping up dictators, toppling a government, imposing sanctions and embargoes, supporting Israel, placing US troops on their soil, etc, etc.

What haven't we done to piss these people off? At some point, some will say enough is enough and strike back.

It's called blowback and not unexpected. Our problems are the direct result of an interventionist foreign policy.

I love when people blame America for 9/11. Blamsters, trufers and birfers. Gotta lov'em.
 
I love when people blame America for 9/11. Blamsters, trufers and birfers. Gotta lov'em.

Actions have consequences ..but then, you already know that ;)
 
Actions have consequences ..but then, you already know that ;)

Which of our actions intruded on AQ's sovereignty? We spent billions helping Afghanistan defeat the Soviets, so why does the Taliban have a hard on for us? I think you're logic is flawed.

All I hear from the terrorists is they want to kill all the infadels.
 
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Our history of meddling in the internal affairs of other nations, propping up dictators, toppling a government, imposing sanctions and embargoes, supporting Israel, placing US troops on their soil, etc, etc.

What haven't we done to piss these people off? At some point, some will say enough is enough and strike back.

It's called blowback and not unexpected. Our problems are the direct result of an interventionist foreign policy.

If we'd merely just sit here....and pay no attention to world affairs....we'd have no problems at all. Every nation in the history of this planet knows that.:roll:
 
If we'd merely just sit here....and pay no attention to world affairs....we'd have no problems at all. Every nation in the history of this planet knows that.:roll:

Just like we did during the 30's. That had a happy ending, huh?...:rofl
 
Our history of meddling in the internal affairs of other nations, propping up dictators, toppling a government, imposing sanctions and embargoes, supporting Israel, placing US troops on their soil, etc, etc.

What haven't we done to piss these people off? At some point, some will say enough is enough and strike back.

It's called blowback and not unexpected. Our problems are the direct result of an interventionist foreign policy.

No rational nation leaves the fate of its critical interests and allies solely to the good faith of others. Furthermore, that Osama Bin Laden's "letter to America" also demanded that the U.S. turn to Islam, complained about the role women play in American society, and rejected the availability of alcohol ("intoxicants" as Mr. Bin Laden described it), etc.--conditions go far beyond actual or perceived foreign policy grievances--it is clear that Al Qaeda's rationale for attacking the U.S. was at least as much about who/what America is than what its policies have been. And such an assessment does not even get to other material relevant factors e.g. Al Qaeda's ideology and aspirations.

If, however, the U.S. had taken the path of isolationism following the end of World War II, it is difficult to imagine that the U.S. would be in a better economic and national security position than it is today. For starters, the Soviets would have had a free hand to pick off non-communist states one-by-one and it could have leveraged its positions among radical Middle Eastern states to lock up that area's energy resources depriving others of vital resources. The result would have been the Soviet capacity to impose and sustain a chokehold until those who sought an alternative way of life would be forced to capitulate.

In addition, on account of its pursuing a policy of isolationist abdication, the U.S. would lose its allies. After all, if the U.S. were indifferent to the fate of its allies even when they were exposed to mortal danger, a bilateral relationship with the U.S. would make no sense. Consequently, its efforts to enter into and sustain economic, political, or security commitments would become all but impossible given its unreliability.

Finally, the East Asian and Western European economic miracles might never have come to pass. There would have been no Marshall Plan, no security framework that allowed for Western Europe and Japan to focus on economic development, etc. Under such circumstances, even if the Soviets restrained themselves from spreading their totalitarianism beyond the Iron Curtain in the face of a frontier opened by American abdication and the enormous power vacuum that was present in the wake of World War II, perhaps new radical ideologies would have taken root and flourished on the war-scarred Continents.

In reality, policy is never risk free. In fact, nothing in life is risk free. Trade-offs are inescapable.

In the end, no matter how it is packaged, implicit in the claim that "blowback" was solely responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks is the notion that isolationism would have produced a different outcome. Against the sweep of human history, the assumption that isolationism would transcend risk pacifying would-be aggressors, taming the worst attributes of human nature/ambition, and producing perfect, perpetual, and prosperous security is without foundation.
 
If we'd merely just sit here....and pay no attention to world affairs....we'd have no problems at all. Every nation in the history of this planet knows that.:roll:

Europe...... 1939.

That work really well.
 
FWIW, Charles Martel is using sarcasm to rebut the notion that isolationism would have prevented 9/11, much less is a viable framework for national security and international stability.
 
FWIW, Charles Martel is using sarcasm to rebut the notion that isolationism would have prevented 9/11, much less is a viable framework for national security and international stability.

I know........
 
FWIW, Charles Martel is using sarcasm to rebut the notion that isolationism would have prevented 9/11, much less is a viable framework for national security and international stability.

I know, too. I responded with sarcasm in kind.
 
Does your mentality state that we must destroy another nation that builds up its military even if it does not threaten us?

ummm....?

Iran threatens U.S. with 'harm and pain'
VIENNA (AP) — Iran threatened the United States with "harm and pain" Wednesday if the U.S. tries to use the U.N. Security Council — which has the power to impose sanctions — as a lever to punish Tehran for its suspect nuclear program. USATODAY.com - Iran threatens U.S. with 'harm and pain'

Direct quotes of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad about Israel.

"Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury." ....dont we recognize them?

"Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."...I dont care if he's quoting, he still believes it.

"If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled. As it has lost its raison d' tre, Israel will be annihilated." ....dont we support them?

"Israel is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed." ...sooner than later?
"Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm."
 
A lesson concerning aggressors:

Once again invading German armies are in Brussels. Once again, as a quarter of a century ago, old men, women and children are blocking the roads of the little country fleeing before the same aggressors. Once again Louvain, Namur, Dinant have been lost to the enemy--the same enemy. Once again the gallant Belgian Army is being pushed back by a relentless foe. All this is because Belgium lies between Germany and her intended victims. Once again Germany has broken her pledged word to Belgium.

Perhaps it could not have been avoided; perhaps it could. Yet, when the historians pen the pages of the present war, they will have to go back four years to make a complete picture of what now has happened in Belgium. In 1936 King Leopold cut loose from his protective alliance with France and reverted to the old neutrality status of Belgium. It was a status which had failed her once, but he thought it better to try again. Germany had promised him not to attack Belgium in a new war and he trusted Germany again. He knows the sad result now.

Source: Edwin L. James, "The Fateful Blunder of Young King Leopold," The New York Times, May 19, 1940.

Three lessons:

1. Neutrality/isolation is not a viable security framework.
2. Leaving one's security to the good will of others leaves one vulnerable.
3. Failure to learn from history can be perilous.
 
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