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DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

There are 1,138 federal rights guaranteed to married opposite sex couple but not to same sex couples that seek marriage.

All of those rights regard supporting a child-rearing home.

How many rights are same sex couples giving up?

I just told you, so if you're already not paying attention then this conversation was over before it began.
 
Who says they get your tax money in the first place? I mean there's a marriage penalty on taxes, so far from getting your money, you might be getting theirs. Even regarding dependent status, that's the couple getting more of their own money back, not getting your money.

Most of the laws regarding marriage regard property transfer and legal authority and responsibility of said children, so 99% of the time your tax money isn't even an issue at all.

Spouses get Social Security survivor benefits and assumption of their spouse's pension. That's tax dollars.
 
All of those rights regard supporting a child-rearing home.

Oh?

Rights and Benefits While Married said:
o employment assistance and transitional services for spouses of members being separated from military service; continued commissary privileges
o per diem payment to spouse for federal civil service employees when relocating
o Indian Health Service care for spouses of Native Americans (in some circumstances)
o sponsor husband/wife for immigration benefits
* Larger benefits under some programs if married, including:
o veteran's disability
o Supplemental Security Income
o disability payments for federal employees
o medicaid
o property tax exemption for homes of totally disabled veterans
o income tax deductions, credits, rates exemption, and estimates
o wages of an employee working for one's spouse are exempt from federal unemployment tax[3]
* Joint and family-related rights:
o joint filing of bankruptcy permitted
o joint parenting rights, such as access to children's school records
o family visitation rights for the spouse and non-biological children, such as to visit a spouse in a hospital or prison
o next-of-kin status for emergency medical decisions or filing wrongful death claims
o custodial rights to children, shared property, child support, and alimony after divorce
o domestic violence intervention
o access to "family only" services, such as reduced rate memberships to clubs & organizations or residency in certain neighborhoods
* Preferential hiring for spouses of veterans in government jobs
* Tax-free transfer of property between spouses (including on death) and exemption from "due-on-sale" clauses.
* Special consideration to spouses of citizens and resident aliens
* Spouse's flower sales count towards meeting the eligibility for Fresh Cut Flowers and Fresh Cut Greens Promotion and Information Act
* Threats against spouses of various federal employees is a federal crime
* Right to continue living on land purchased from spouse by National Park Service when easement granted to spouse
* Court notice of probate proceedings
* Domestic violence protection orders
* Existing homestead lease continuation of rights
* Regulation of condominium sales to owner-occupants exemption
* Funeral and bereavement leave
* Joint adoption and foster care
* Joint tax filing
* Insurance licenses, coverage, eligibility, and benefits organization of mutual benefits society
* Legal status with stepchildren
* Making spousal medical decisions
* Spousal non-resident tuition deferential waiver
* Permission to make funeral arrangements for a deceased spouse, including burial or cremation
* Right of survivorship of custodial trust
* Right to change surname upon marriage
* Right to enter into prenuptial agreement
* Right to inheritance of property
* Spousal privilege in court cases (the marital confidences privilege and the spousal testimonial privilege)
* For those divorced or widowed, the right to many of ex- or late spouse's benefits, including:
o Social Security pension
o veteran's pensions, indemnity compensation for service-connected deaths, medical care, and nursing home care, right to burial in veterans' cemeteries, educational assistance, and housing
o survivor benefits for federal employees
o survivor benefits for spouses of longshoremen, harbor workers, railroad workers
o additional benefits to spouses of coal miners who die of black lung disease
o $100,000 to spouse of any public safety officer killed in the line of duty
o continuation of employer-sponsored health benefits
o renewal and termination rights to spouse's copyrights on death of spouse
o continued water rights of spouse in some circumstances
o payment of wages and workers compensation benefits after worker death
o making, revoking, and objecting to post-mortem anatomical gifts


I just told you, so if you're already not paying attention then this conversation was over before it began.

I'm not sure I understand your point.
 
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They get tax breaks which means that check they're getting, is essentially their own money back.

Which means those who aren't married have to pay more taxes.

Name the last time the govt cut taxes and then decreased the budget?
 

Yup.

I'm not sure I understand your point.

In the immortal words of his Honor, the Warden teacher, the man you aren't, can't, and never will be: "read all the words"...

It's only THE reason the state has any business poking it's nose in your relationships in the first place.

Frankly I don't understand why childless gays are lining up to surrender their right to privacy to Big-Bro when there is no reason for the state to do so.

I mean they say it's about rights, but what they're doing is surrendering rights. It makes no sense.
 
Which means those who aren't married have to pay more taxes.

Uh no, childless married couples have to pay more taxes because their incomes are combined and they have no dependents.

Only when one parent gives up their income to take care of a few dependents do married couples pay less than single folks, because then you have one income supporting yourself and your spouse and your dependents instead of only yourself.

I single person with 3 dependents pays about the same taxes as a married single-income couple with 2 children.
 
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Uh no, childless married couples have to pay more taxes because their incomes are combined and they have no dependents.

Only when one parent gives up their income to take care of a few dependents do married couples pay less than single folks.

The govt needs a set amount of taxes to fund the budget. So whenever it gives tax breaks to one group, it has to charge another group higher taxes to make up the difference.
 
The govt needs a set amount of taxes to fund the budget. So whenever it gives tax breaks to one group, it has to charge another group higher taxes to make up the difference.

If that's true, then unless gays are raising children, gay 'marriage will force the government to rais taxes. I mean Obama'Care is bad enough, but once he gets his amnesty bill going after it and includes illegals in Obama'care, all these gays now getting tax brakes when they don't even have children are only going to further exacerbate the problem.

And of course Obama is going to raise taxes in response, which history proves will only decrees federal income, further disabling our government's ability to pay it's mounting bills which it shouldn't have made in the first place...so he'll borrow his way through another election, but where does that leave us in years to come? Up ****-creek without a paddle.
 
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Why do you assume that gays don't have children?

Some gays have children from previous relationships and others adopt or use surrogacy.
 
Why do you assume that gays don't have children?
I don't see many children in those pride parades or picket lines.

In more sober threads I've asked this board for actual numbers, but it's been 3-4 years now....still no data.

Some token gay couple is not sufficient to establish an exemption for all of them. I needs to be the majority or marriage needs to be re-worked so that anyone raising children (even if they are related/interracial/underage/same-sex/etc) can marry.

Gays raising children is a problem this country needs to correct, but the modern gay 'marriage movement is not the answer. The state has no interest in relationships not raising children, so keep your right to privacy.

Likewise, medical care does need reform, but Obama'Care is not the right answer, but I digress.
 
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Which means those who aren't married have to pay more taxes.

Name the last time the govt cut taxes and then decreased the budget?

No they pay the same taxes, but they get a refund for having to put up with children. The Government is not without compassion.
 
If that's true, then unless gays are raising children, gay 'marriage will force the government to rais taxes. I mean Obama'Care is bad enough, but once he gets his amnesty bill going after it and includes illegals in Obama'care, all these gays now getting tax brakes when they don't even have children are only going to further exacerbate the problem.

And of course Obama is going to raise taxes in response, which history proves will only decrees federal income, further disabling our government's ability to pay it's mounting bills which it shouldn't have made in the first place...so he'll borrow his way through another election, but where does that leave us in years to come? Up ****-creek without a paddle.

There is more to tax breaks than just the children vs no children aspect. Surviving spouses still collect their spouse's pension and when that pension involves government jobs, taxpayers have to fund it.
 
I don't see many children in those pride parades or picket lines.

Was that you being snide or an honest thought? I would never bring a child to such a parade as there tends to be a lot of sexual gratuity at them. I also think a picket line is a dangerous place for a child. So do you make assumptions about how many children all groups have by how many children they have in their protest lines?

In more sober threads I've asked this board for actual numbers, but it's been 3-4 years now....still no data.

According to the Child Welfare Information Gateway, between 8 and 10 million children are being raised in gay and lesbian families.

Adoption by Gay and Lesbian Families

More readable version...

Gay and Lesbian Adoptive Parents

Will that work?

Some token gay couple is not sufficient to establish an exemption for all of them. I needs to be the majority or marriage needs to be re-worked so that anyone raising children (even if they are related) can marry.

Just because you believe that marriage should be purely an institution of procreation and child rearing does not mean that is its only purpose. Do you believe that people who are too old to have children should be denied the right to marry? Should infertile couples be denied the right to marry? Do you not see any benefits to society for allowing couples to marry besides the benefits to children?

Gays raising children is a problem this country needs to correct, but the modern gay 'marriage movement is not the answer.

Why not? Why are gays and lesbians not entitled to the same marriage rights and benefits that any elderly or infertile heterosexual couple can enjoy?
 
No they pay the same taxes, but they get a refund for having to put up with children. The Government is not without compassion.

That so-called refund is calculated into the overall taxes collected, which means other groups will be paying more in order to make up the difference.
 
There is more to tax breaks than just the children vs no children aspect. Surviving spouses still collect their spouse's pension and when that pension involves government jobs, taxpayers have to fund it.

Pension is not a tax brake.
 
Was that you being snide or an honest thought? I would never bring a child to such a parade as there tends to be a lot of sexual gratuity at them. I also think a picket line is a dangerous place for a child. So do you make assumptions about how many children all groups have by how many children they have in their protest lines?

I don't see gays bothering to put children in the public eye with them, is my point. The appearance that gives is that child-rearing is peripheral to them, when it should be their main focus for marriage.

According to the Child Welfare Information Gateway, between 8 and 10 million children are being raised in gay and lesbian families.

Adoption by Gay and Lesbian Families

More readable version...

Gay and Lesbian Adoptive Parents

Will that work?

Thank you :) I would like a little time to look this over :2wave:

Just because you believe that marriage should be purely an institution of procreation and child rearing does not mean that is its only purpose. Do you believe that people who are too old to have children should be denied the right to marry? Should infertile couples be denied the right to marry? Do you not see any benefits to society for allowing couples to marry besides the benefits to children?

No no no it has nothing to do with what I believe but with what any average person can observe by looking at SCOTUS rulings and history of the thing.

Why not? Why are gays and lesbians not entitled to the same marriage rights and benefits that any elderly or infertile heterosexual couple can enjoy?

The elderly and infertile can raise children, and if they choose to, they should have access to marriage, but if they never have and do not ever intent to, then they shouldn't have access to marriage.

***
And yes once married they should be allowed to stay married even after the children move out. Let's not go there.

***
No the marriage should not be abolished if the child dies.

Let's see what other stupid questions from gay-marriage threads past can I recall being asked...
 
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It's tax funded when it's from a government job.

So? It's not a tax brake. If you want your unmarried lover to have it, will it to them. It's that simple. You don't need to give any constitutional rights in the process.
 
I don't see gays bothering to put children in the public eye with them, is my point. The appearance that gives is that child-rearing is peripheral to them, when it should be their main focus for marriage.

So because gays and lesbians are not using children as a political tool to fight for equal rights which would be beneficial to children, they don't deserve marriage?

Thank you :) I would like a little time to look this over :2wave:

Glad to help.

No no no it has nothing to do with what I believe but with what any average person can observe by looking at SCOTUS rulings and history of the thing.

I'm not aware of any Supreme Court rulings on gay marriage.

The elderly and infertile can raise children, and if they choose to, they should have access to marriage, but if they never have and do not ever intent to, then they shouldn't have access to marriage.

Why? There are a number of health, emotion, and financial benefits to marriage that improve societal stability. I can provide a wealth of social scientific evidence to back that up if you want. Why do you have a personal belief that marriage should only be about procreation and child rearing? Are you an open advocate for removing marriage rights from those who are not having or raising children? Or do you simply hold this position so that you can be against gay marriage while never actually acting against heterosexual marriages that have nothing to do with procreation or child rearing?
 
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Uh no, childless married couples have to pay more taxes because their incomes are combined and they have no dependents.

Only when one parent gives up their income to take care of a few dependents do married couples pay less than single folks, because then you have one income supporting yourself and your spouse and your dependents instead of only yourself.

I single person with 3 dependents pays about the same taxes as a married single-income couple with 2 children.

Depends on the income of the married couple and how they file. At no time does a married couple have to pay more(they can file separately, but they can frequently pay less.
 
So because gays and lesbians are not using children as a political tool to fight for equal rights which would be beneficial to children, they don't deserve marriage?

If children are the focus then yes children need to be at the forefront of the issue so that their plight can be seen by everyone and the problem accurately understood.

I'm not aware of any Supreme Court rulings on gay marriage.

Neither am I, but neither of us were referring to SCOTUS rulings on the purpose of gay-marriage. I was referring to the purpose of marriage per-se and you reflected an understanding of that when you quoted me...so idk where SCOTUS rulings on gay-marriage come into the discussion...:confused:


Why? There are a number of health, emotion, and financial benefits to marriage that improve societal stability.

They all exist so as to provide children a stable home, which in turn creates more stability. Enjoyment of secondary benefits meant to reinforce the primary, when the primary purpose is absent, is not a reason to redefine marriage to now be about enjoying those secondary benefits. You gut the thing when you do.

Are you an open advocate for removing marriage rights from those who are not having or raising children?

I've clearly stated my support for exactly that many times on this thread.
 
According to a report given to the Office of the General Counsel of the U.S. General Accounting Office, here are a few of the 1,138 benefits the United States government provides to legally married couples:


Access to Military Stores
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Bereavement Leave
Immigration
Insurance Breaks
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Social Security Survivor Benefits
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Tax Breaks
Veteran’s Discounts
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison

Here are a few of the state level benefits within the United States:


Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Automatic Inheritance
Automatic Housing Lease Transfer
Bereavement Leave
Burial Determination
Child Custody
Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits
Divorce Protections
Domestic Violence Protection
Exemption from Property Tax on Partner’s Death
Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse
Insurance Breaks
Joint Adoption and Foster Care
Joint Bankruptcy
Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Certain Property Rights
Reduced Rate Memberships
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Visitation of Partner’s Children
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison
Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits
Marriage Benefits
 
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