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New Obama plans: 'spend our way out' of downturn

How did the stimulus help Middle America spend money?

I'm not defending this stimulus, I don't know how or if it actually worked out. I'm just discussing the theory.

A stimulus helps Middle America spend money by buying stuff they make or employing them.

When a stimulus builds a road, for instance, it hires a contractor. The contractor hires workers, and buys cement. The cement company hires workers. And all those workers spend money again, at Wal-Mart or whatever, and that puts money in the pockets of Wal-Mart workers. And they spend it. Pretty basic idea.
 
I'm not defending this stimulus, I don't know how or if it actually worked out. I'm just discussing the theory.

A stimulus helps Middle America spend money by buying stuff they make or employing them.

When a stimulus builds a road, for instance, it hires a contractor. The contractor hires workers, and buys cement. The cement company hires workers. And all those workers spend money again, at Wal-Mart or whatever, and that puts money in the pockets of Wal-Mart workers. And they spend it. Pretty basic idea.

You can't say if it worked but you defend it.

How many new road projects do you see in your community?

I see lots of projects that were already being done.

I know no one that is middle income and benefiting from the stimulus. I have been spending money and I haven't worked since march. Obama is telling lies and we have found out that the figures for new and saved jobs can not be trusted.
 
You can't say if it worked but you defend it.

Did I not just say I'm not defending this particular stimulus? I'm explaining the theory behind it. Whether it was done right, or in the right conditions, is another matter. I didn't

How many new road projects do you see in your community?

I see lots of projects that were already being done.

So are you now claiming there isn't a stimulus?

You can easily look up what's happening in your community with stimulus funds at recovery.gov.

I know no one that is middle income and benefiting from the stimulus.

How?

I have been spending money and I haven't worked since march.

You're not the center of the universe. Plenty of people are working because of the stimulus. Look it up. Sorry you are jobless, but it's not like Obama promised to employ every single person.
 
Did I not just say I'm not defending this particular stimulus? I'm explaining the theory behind it. Whether it was done right, or in the right conditions, is another matter. I didn't



So are you now claiming there isn't a stimulus?

You can easily look up what's happening in your community with stimulus funds at recovery.gov.



How?




You're not the center of the universe. Plenty of people are working because of the stimulus. Look it up. Sorry you are jobless, but it's not like Obama promised to employ every single person.

You are not defending?
JC-hysterical.gif



So you have no answers just that Obama is doing it so it is good
 
You are not defending? [/img]

No, just explaining the theory. Why is that a hard concept to understand?

So you have no answers just that Obama is doing it so it is good

Never said that. Never said it was good. Please try to stick to reality.
 
How exactly would you have done that, apdst?

I wouldn't have sent $2 billion to Brazil to subsidize their oil and gas exploration and production, for one.

Two, I would halt all imports on natural resources to the point where we could get our own industries up and running to an acceptable capacity.

It ain't rocket science, folks.
 
Two, I would halt all imports on natural resources to the point where we could get our own industries up and running to an acceptable capacity.

It ain't rocket science, folks.

Just absolute insanity.
 
Just absolute insanity.

Of course you would believe that it is...:rofl

Hell, we might actually put folks back to work and start fixing the economy! That would be trully insane!
 
Of course you would believe that it is...:rofl

Hell, we might actually put folks back to work and start fixing the economy! That would be trully insane!

Stopping all imports. Right. That'll work out great!
 
Of course you would believe that it is...:rofl

Hell, we might actually put folks back to work and start fixing the economy! That would be trully insane!

Production_Possibilities_Frontier_diagram.jpg


Assume we are close to that line (the ppf curve) (D). Also assume we have a consumption curve that lies outside that line (X). What does this mean?

Looks similar to this:
chart9.png


What happens when the consumption pattern falls equal to the ppf on all derivatives?
 
Hey, no fair using actual economics and stuff!
 
Production_Possibilities_Frontier_diagram.jpg


Assume we are close to that line (the ppf curve) (D). Also assume we have a consumption curve that lies outside that line (X). What does this mean?

Looks similar to this:
chart9.png


What happens when the consumption pattern falls equal to the ppf on all derivatives?

What percentage of our oil do we import? You're ok with trade deficits? Since we're talking actual economic stuff and all.
 
Where did I say stop all imports? Perhaps you should re-read my post?

Sorry, I should have written all imports on natural resources.

Still insane.
 
What percentage of our oil do we import? You're ok with trade deficits? Since we're talking actual economic stuff and all.

Yes i am OK with trade deficits as they allow the citizens of this country to live outside their production possibilities frontier all while we continue, to a great degree, specialization in which the most efficient allocation of resources is achieved.

Oh yeah, about 280,000 barrels per month.

Why did you not answer my questions?
 
Sorry, I should have written all imports on natural resources.

Still insane.

Again, show me where I said anything about all imports, on anything. You definitely need to re-read my post.
 
Yes i am OK with trade deficits as they allow the citizens of this country to live outside their production possibilities frontier all while we continue, to a great degree, specialization in which the most efficient allocation of resources is achieved.

Oh yeah, about 280,000 barrels per month.

Why did you not answer my questions?

No matter how many Americans are unemployed. Right?
 
No matter how many Americans are unemployed. Right?

Increased consumption via trade does not lead to unemployment. If it did, the unemployment rate would have been steadily increasing on par with the current account deficit; it did not....

Specialization however leads to more efficient allocation of resources.
 
Increased consumption via trade does not lead to unemployment. If it did, the unemployment rate would have been steadily increasing on par with the current account deficit; it did not....

Specialization however leads to more efficient allocation of resources.

It does when you have workers unemployed in this country, all the while you are buying the product they produce from another country. That's just common sense.

How many farmers and ranchers would go out of business if we started importing more food from other countries? Quite a few, huh?
 
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It does when you have workers unemployed in this country, all the while you are buying the product they produce from another country. That's just common sense.

Your error is that you assume capital/labor mobility to be infinite. It isn't. The amount of central planning required to eliminate energy imports, construct oil rigs, piping and infrastructure, equipment, locate possible employees/train them, etc... would be insane!

Given relative resource availability (vs say Canada, Saudi, etc...), higher wages, and environmental constraints, such a move would require massive subsidies to keep competitive.

How manny farmers and ranchers would go out of business if we started importing more food from other countries? Quite a few, huh?

National security, transportation costs, quality, subsidies etc... keep such a thing from possibly happening. Food is essentially renewable though, oil is not.
 
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