• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

New Poll shows Tea party more popular than Republican Party

1. These are probably lies.

2. Republicans are more likely to be fiscally conservative than socially conservative, and just because they're usually both doesn't mean they all emphasize the latter. You both just only hear what you listen for.

Barry Goldwater was opposed to the government involvement in social issues.
His focus was on fiscal conservatism.
The GOP doesn't even know what it means to be fiscally conservative these days. To the GOP "Conservative" means only two things, Anti-Reproductive Choice and Anti-gay rights.
 
Nice try, but it wasn't Obama that created the economic condition that we are in. If in seven years when he leaves office things are not improved, then absolutely you can say that he failed to improve the situation.


Oh, he owns it. Like I said, Bush may have been bad, but Obama is putting his spending to shame.

Obama won't be in for 7 years unless he comes clean, and just declares a dictatorship like he really wants.


j-mac
 
The Mayo Clinic disagrees with you....

Caesar salad with grilled chicken - MayoClinic.com

Those silly nutritionists at the Mayo Clinic actually believe that its a healthy meal. You should go there and set them straight. They must be starving their patients.

LOL....from your own link: Romaine lettuce is flavorful and has more vitamin A, vitamin C, folate and calcium than does iceberg lettuce.

Aside from that....now you add in Croutons, Ceasar Dressing, Cheese....your price reference just went up. You aren't getting this for $3.
 
I don't disagree. But a head of green leaf lettuce and a bunch of green onions is hardly a nutritious meal for a family with three kids.

No **** Sherlock, nothing gets by you!....... coupled with say, a chicken breast ($1.50), and a Butternut winter squash ($.50) you can feed 4 for a buck per head.

Of course you have to do all of those boring, and time consuming things like cooking and washing dishes.
 
LOL....from your own link: Romaine lettuce is flavorful and has more vitamin A, vitamin C, folate and calcium than does iceberg lettuce.

Aside from that....now you add in Croutons, Ceasar Dressing, Cheese....your price reference just went up. You aren't getting this for $3.


do you use the entire bottle of dressing? Or the entire block of cheese for one salad? Ofcourse you can make a salad for about .50 to .75 cents per person.


j-mac
 
There are a number of issues. Oftentimes it is difficult to get the large supermarkets to build in poor areas. Its a cost/demand ratio. Many markets don't want to invest capital in areas where the spending power is low.
As a result, usually the option that people in these areas have are to either trek to other areas in public transit and haul back their groceries, or shop the smaller markets near their homes that often charge much more than the larger markets because they don't have the volume and therefore cannot offer the same prices.

Supermarkets build in suburubs with huge parking lots. In the middle and upper class suburbs, people drive there. With lower class areas, these people often can't drive there for one reason or another. The supermarket, though, still needs a lot of people in order to be profitable. So when you don't allow lower class areas to get dense, supermarkets won't be profitable.

What about fast food places? Small parking lots. They don't require as many people as supermarkets because they are smaller operations.

So what does this mean? When you have uniform density, lower class areas will have a lower amount of supermarkets and higher amount of fast food places (due to people still needing food and fast food places being more accessible to the poor in low density areas than supermarkets). Don't blame markets, blame the government for not allowing higher density.
 
No **** Sherlock, nothing gets by you!....... coupled with say, a chicken breast ($1.50), and a Butternut winter squash ($.50) you can feed 4 for a buck per head.

Of course you have to do all of those boring, and time consuming things like cooking and washing dishes.

Well...now you are getting substantially higher than the $3 price point. And I want to know wear you live that you can buy a Butternut squash for 50 cents.
 
A Whopper meal is now approaching $6 - double the amount that we were originally talking about. I said $10....so you are coming in about $4 under what I said.
I think there are some meals that you can make in that range...but that's pushing it.
To make a truly nutritious meal for a family with three kids, I think you are pushing it for under $10.

Don't cook much do you? I do daily so I know what it costs for what.
 
LOL....from your own link: Romaine lettuce is flavorful and has more vitamin A, vitamin C, folate and calcium than does iceberg lettuce.

Aside from that....now you add in Croutons, Ceasar Dressing, Cheese....your price reference just went up. You aren't getting this for $3.

If you're poor, you should probably abstain from croutons.
 
Supermarkets build in suburubs with huge parking lots. In the middle and upper class suburbs, people drive there. With lower class areas, these people often can't drive there for one reason or another. The supermarket, though, still needs a lot of people in order to be profitable. So when you don't allow lower class areas to get dense, supermarkets won't be profitable.

What about fast food places? Small parking lots. They don't require as many people as supermarkets because they are smaller operations.

So what does this mean? When you have uniform density, lower class areas will have a lower amount of supermarkets and higher amount of fast food places (due to people still needing food and fast food places being more accessible to the poor in low density areas than supermarkets). Don't blame markets, blame the government for not allowing higher density.

I can see what you are saying....and it makes perfect sense. I don't know that government doesn't allow higher density though. Does it? I live in Los Angeles....and the housing is pretty dense, especially in the less affluent areas. Maybe its different in other parts of the country.
But that is one of the reasons why the LA city council put a moratorium on fast food opening in poor areas, because all you see block after block is fast food....which supports my original premise on this particular issue that childhood obesity is directly related to cheap fast food as opposed to the costs of providing healthy nutritious meals.
 
Don't cook much do you? I do daily so I know what it costs for what.

I cook about 95% of the time.

I eat breakfast at home.
I pack my lunch at least 4 times a week, maybe eat out once a week at lunch.
And I cook dinner usually 6 times a week. I like to go out about once a week.
So .....yes.....I do cook a lot.
 
Barry Goldwater was opposed to the government involvement in social issues.
His focus was on fiscal conservatism.
The GOP doesn't even know what it means to be fiscally conservative these days. To the GOP "Conservative" means only two things, Anti-Reproductive Choice and Anti-gay rights.

And the libs are all about spending as much as is humanly possible... right?

There.... now we have both been partisan hacks.
 
LOL....from your own link: Romaine lettuce is flavorful and has more vitamin A, vitamin C, folate and calcium than does iceberg lettuce.

Aside from that....now you add in Croutons, Ceasar Dressing, Cheese....your price reference just went up. You aren't getting this for $3.

Where exactly did I limit the salad to iceberg???
 
And the libs are all about spending as much as is humanly possible... right?

There.... now we have both been partisan hacks.

I've never said that Liberals are fiscally conservative. My only argument is that the GOP is hardly the party of fiscal conservatism.
 
I can see what you are saying....and it makes perfect sense. I don't know that government doesn't allow higher density though. Does it? I live in Los Angeles....and the housing is pretty dense, especially in the less affluent areas. Maybe its different in other parts of the country.
But that is one of the reasons why the LA city council put a moratorium on fast food opening in poor areas, because all you see block after block is fast food....which supports my original premise on this particular issue that childhood obesity is directly related to cheap fast food as opposed to the costs of providing healthy nutritious meals.

If you live in Los Angeles you should know exactly what I'm talking about (I'm from LA and I've been following transit/urban planning in the city for years). Go to Google Maps and start searching south of downtown all the way to Long Beach. You'll be surprised at just how "undense" this area is. You know that this is the classical low-income area, so you should see the problem right away.

As for the rest of LA, yes, zoning laws do cap density. Go to zimas.lacity.org to see current zoning laws. Hollywood is pretty dense, but it could be denser, and this city of 4,000,000 needs more than Hollywood for housing.
 
Where exactly did I limit the salad to iceberg???

Maybe it wasn't you....but someone was claiming that you can buy an iceberg lettuce mix for $2 and a chicken breast and it make a nutritious meal.
If that wasn't you....sorry.
 
Well...now you are getting substantially higher than the $3 price point. And I want to know wear you live that you can buy a Butternut squash for 50 cents.

It's been at my local McKay's market at that price for the last 2 months.... and I thought we were talking about fast food being cheaper than home cooked.

(hint: $4.00 to feed 4 at home, vs. how much to feed 4 at a fast food?)
 
If you live in Los Angeles you should know exactly what I'm talking about (I'm from LA and I've been following transit/urban planning in the city for years). Go to Google Maps and start searching south of downtown all the way to Long Beach. You'll be surprised at just how "undense" this area is. You know that this is the classical low-income area, so you should see the problem right away.

As for the rest of LA, yes, zoning laws do cap density. Go to zimas.lacity.org to see current zoning laws. Hollywood is pretty dense, but it could be denser, and this city of 4,000,000 needs more than Hollywood for housing.


Yes....those areas aren't particularly dense. I have lived primarily Wilshire Center, Mid-City, Hollywood, West Hollywood and West LA....all fairly dense areas.
 
Maybe it wasn't you....but someone was claiming that you can buy an iceberg lettuce mix for $2 and a chicken breast and it make a nutritious meal.
If that wasn't you....sorry.



that was you setting up the strawman in post 157......:rofl:spin:


j-mac
 
It's been at my local McKay's market at that price for the last 2 months.... and I thought we were talking about fast food being cheaper than home cooked.

(hint: $4.00 to feed 4 at home, vs. how much to feed 4 at a fast food?)

I'm not sure where that is...but when I buy Butternut Squash at my local ranch market, which has produce for about 1/4 of what the supermarkets charge, I pay at least $2 for a butternut squash.

I find it rather hard to believe that anyone could feed a family of 4 day after day for a dollar a head. Even so....you are basically the same price as running down to Jack in the Box and getting 8 tacos or Burger King for 4 double cheese burgers.

The point being....cheap high fat fast food is what many of the poor nourish themselves on.
 
that was you setting up the strawman in post 157......:rofl:spin:


j-mac

Sorry...but you are wrong. It was Gil and he was referring to pre-packaged salad mixes that contain slivers of cabbage, radish and carrot. Hardly nutrious.
 
Barry Goldwater was opposed to the government involvement in social issues.
His focus was on fiscal conservatism.
The GOP doesn't even know what it means to be fiscally conservative these days.

Tell me which of the following things you advocate:
-End the New Deal (Social Security included)
-Anti-labor unions
-No welfare
-End the Great Society (Medicare/Medicaid included)
-No "public option" or universal health care
-Free markets without regulations
-Flat tax rate
-Military interventionism (such as the Vietnam War)

Barry Goldwater advocated all of these. If you really wouldn't mind Goldwater-style conservatism, then that would mean that you do too.


To the GOP "Conservative" means only two things, Anti-Reproductive Choice and Anti-gay rights.

That is not true at all. Those things mean as much to the GOP as reproductive rights and gay marriage mean do the Democratic Party. They are only two of many issues.
 
Yes....those areas aren't particularly dense. I have lived primarily Wilshire Center, Mid-City, Hollywood, West Hollywood and West LA....all fairly dense areas.

It's just arbitrary zoning. These are areas that were historically dense from the streetcar says, or dense because they are their own city (think of West Hollywood, Santa Monica, Glendale, and to a lesser extent Burbank and Pasadena). The only area that is kind of dense (I say kind of because the density here doesn't compare to New York or areas of Europe like a city of this size should) is Hollywood, but this is too small of an area to contain all of the poor.

So the problem of the poor not being able to get good food is due to government and their stupid zoning laws.
 
Back
Top Bottom