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Sarah Palin says US should rededicate itself to God

bhkad said:
No, she doesn't. She just remembers what the USA USED to be like and wants to return to it. Aside from segregation and anti-Gay laws which Palin does not advocate, what was wrong with the social and political climate in the USA prior to 1965?

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Not much was wrong considering people were fighting against discrimination.
 
RyrineaHaruno said:
"touched by God" because the nation's early leaders dedicated the country to God. :2wave: Read this part of the paper. When they made it IN to a SECULAR NATION and not a CHRISTIAN NATION. My thoughts are based on this quote, and does not reflect poorly on me.
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The claim that the United States is a secular nation is dubious at best.

The framers wanted a secular Government to preserve religious liberty, not lead people away from it.

IMO - if anything, the framers wanted their secular government to interfere in no way with the common moral order - a Judeo-Christian moral order they had inherited & believed that the Constitution alone was not enough to preserve order & tranquility.
 
bhkad said:
No, she doesn't. She just remembers what the USA USED to be like and wants to return to it. Aside from segregation and anti-Gay laws which Palin does not advocate, what was wrong with the social and political climate in the USA prior to 1965?

A return to God would not be a theocracy.

Chizzill.
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You mean a depression, oppressive society, snake oil medicine, two world wars, and a presidential assassination? You want to return to that?

Society cannot be returned to anything. We are a progressive people that can only be molded into the future, not the past. While still being pro society we have changed to put individualism above society when it comes to personal & day to day matters. That is what happens when the society becomes to big and overwhelming for a person to follow. The growth in populace took away the personalization.
 
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Yert Dweller said:
George Washington was a fundamentalist.
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He was a man of faith and not in ANY way comparable to today's Christian Fundamentalists which are essentially a splinter group of Baptists and Protestants--all splinter groups of the Catholic Church.

Fundamentalists hate being reminded who gave them the bible. (which is a collection of books and letters and not ONE book) That would be the Catholics.

Fundamentalists think the Catholic Church is Pagan. Yet the married ones all where those Pagan wedding bands.

You could fill the Astrodome with everything Fundamentalists DON'T know about religious history and Christianity.

Washington was a pragmatist who whole-heartedly supported separation of church on state.
 
The silenced majority said:
The claim that the United States is a secular nation is dubious at best.
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Do you understand the difference between a Nation and a State?

The U.S. is a multi-cultural Nation within a secular state. The first amendment and all that.

The framers wanted a secular Government to preserve religious liberty, not lead people away from it.
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How is it that you understand that but can't grasp the bigger concept...???:confused:

IMO - if anything, the framers wanted their secular government to interfere in no way with the common moral order - a Judeo-Christian moral order they had inherited & believed that the Constitution alone was not enough to preserve order & tranquility.
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The separation doctrine works both ways... Keeping the secular state out of religion, but also keeping the state safe from religious zealots who want to dictate say... the definition of marriage.
 
In a previous post, I stated that George Washington was a fundamentalist, to which you answered...
RyrineaHaruno said:
No he wasn't most of them were deist. :doh I'd rather not live in a theocracy, thanks!
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No one could be farther from the truth than to claim that Sarah Palin, or any of the founding fathers is attempting to establish a theocracy.

A quick google search reveals a lot of the words of our founding fathers. I'll let George Washington speak for himself...

George Washington said:
The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion.
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...and later:
"...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."
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Here is more from GW...
It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.
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In his speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779 he said...
What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.
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On May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge, he said...
To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian
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During his inauguration... the very first inauguration of our nation's history, Washington took the oath as prescribed by the Constitution but added several religious components to that official ceremony. Before taking his oath of office, he summoned a Bible on which to take the oath, added the words “So help me God!” to the end of the oath, then leaned over and kissed the Bible.

Yes, he was a deist. Deists believe there is a God. Most Christians are deists in some respect. However, he was more than a mere deist. He was what you claim to fear. He was a fundamental Christian.
 
hazlnut said:
Do you understand the difference between a Nation and a State?

The U.S. is a multi-cultural Nation within a secular state. The first amendment and all that.
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The 1st amendment dictates nothing about cultural demography. It only spells out what the government cant do to (or in regards to) the establishment of religion.

But since you brought it up, in 1965 the United States was essentially a bi-racial country who's citizens identified as Christians at over 90%.

The framers gave the Government the power to regulate immigration. The United States as a multi-cultural nation is certainly a modern concept & a modern legislative philosophy.





The separation doctrine works both ways... Keeping the secular state out of religion, but also keeping the state safe from religious zealots who want to dictate say... the definition of marriage.
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This is a total falsehood. The people are free to elect the biggest religious zealot out there to be President given he meets the Constitutional requirements to hold office. As President, he would be limited by the Constitution like any other President.
 
Sarah Palin should re-dedicate herself to shutting her pie hole. After that she can work on keeping her religious beliefs to herself.
 
I think it's funny when lefties attack those on the right for invoking the name of God,but are silent when those on the left do so also.

Barack Obama-


“I call upon Americans to pray in thanksgiving for our freedoms and blessings and to ask for God’s continued guidance, grace and protection for this land that we love”

"But I do believe that if we can talk to one another openly and honestly, and perhaps allow God's grace to enter that space between us, then perhaps old rifts will start to mend and new partnerships will begin to emerge."

"We do what we do because God is with us."

"Hope – Hope in the face of difficulty. Hope in the face of uncertainty. The audacity of hope! In the end, that is God’s greatest gift to us, the bedrock of this nation. A belief in things not seen. A belief that there are better days ahead."

"We are God's partners in matters of life and death"

2008-01-21_obama_faith_2.jpg




Non-Believers Losing Faith in Obama: More God Talk Than Bush -- and Same Old Faith-Based Policies

Barack Obama invokes Jesus more than George W. Bush


Obama Brings Back 'Cross' Flier To Try to Reach Kentucky Voters
 
Vader said:
Sarah Palin should re-dedicate herself to shutting her pie hole. After that she can work on keeping her religious beliefs to herself.
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Do you feel the same about Obama?
 
RyrineaHaruno said:
Sarah Palin has said the United States should rededicate itself to seeking God's will.


Just like Huckabee, isn't she. I am terribly afraid of the fundamentalist.
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Mrs Palin said: "No one person has all the right answers. It takes a united nation, and it does take godly counsel, and it takes prayer and answers to prayer - and a collective humble heart of a nation seeking God's hand of protection and his blessings of prosperity.

"I think if we can get back to that, our country will be a safer, more prosperous and healthier nation."

Sounds like a good idea to me :2wave:

***
Now quick, someone chime in with "which god?"
 
RyrineaHaruno said:
No he wasn't most of them were deist. :doh I'd rather not live in a theocracy, thanks!





:doh No she wants it to be a theocracy
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Silly fearmongering.

Palin did not say she wants a theocracy. She did not say the government should pass a law requiring all citizens to rededicate their lives to God.

She said the nation should rededicate itself to God, as in she thinks this would be a good thing if we chose to do so. She said that the leadership of the nation should humble themselves and pray, and realize they don't have all the answers in and of themselves.

That word theocracy gets thrown around very haphazardly, along with some kind of assumption that Christian "fundamentalists" want to use government coercion to force everyone to be Christian.

Christianity is a choice; absent choice it is mere hypocrisy. Coercion cannot spread Christianity, only persuasion can.

I saw nothing in that article that indicated she is advocating coercion towards anyone in this matter.

Some of you people amaze me... let some public political figure so much as suggest that that turning to God and prayer might be good for the nation, and you run through the streets like Chicken Little screaming "Theocracy! Theocracy!" :roll:
 
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Goshin said:
Some of you people amaze me... let some public political figure so much as suggest that that turning to God and prayer might be good for the nation, and you run through the streets like Chicken Little screaming "Theocracy! Theocracy!" :roll:
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The same people attacking Palin for her use of religion are silent about Obama's constant use.
 
Strucky said:
The same people attacking Palin for her use of religion are silent about Obama's constant use.
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To be fair, the people complaining here where complaining that they saw her as advocating a theocracy, not that she was referencing god. I disagree and don't think that is what she meant, but I don't think any one is against her talking about her faith.
 
Politically, I do not like Palin and would not vote for her, but I do not understand the liberal's vehemence of her.
 
RyrineaHaruno said:
"touched by God" because the nation's early leaders dedicated the country to God. :2wave: Read this part of the paper. When they made it IN to a SECULAR NATION and not a CHRISTIAN NATION. My thoughts are based on this quote, and does not reflect poorly on me.
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I read the whole thing. You must be very, very easily frightened. Perhaps you should stay away from the news? If that was enough to make you very frightened I can't imagine how you react when you read about what Muslim extremists actually do vs. the mild things that an average Christian woman has said :shock:
 
RyrineaHaruno said:
Sarah Palin has said the United States should rededicate itself to seeking God's will.


Just like Huckabee, isn't she. I am terribly afraid of the fundamentalist.
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I wouldn't worry so much about Palin's statement that America should dedicate itself to God; I worry when politicians act as if they have a direct insight into God's will and will act on that. Palin will speak to her base in this manner as faith is a part of life for many Americans. I haven't seen anything in her short record as a governor that indicated that she was attempting to establish a theocracy.
 
You know what kills me about these people that try to shove religion down your throat? You know, we need to be a moral country with religious values blah blah blah? They're usually hypocrites. Problem is they can't seem to show me an example I want to follow. I had a guy tell me I need to live a more Christian life. Say what? He's been married four times!

And I'll be damned if I'm going to have some dumb broad (Palin) tell me about being religious when when she had to get married and I didn't. ( Oh yes her first child was born much less than 9 months after she got married.) You do the math. And her religious values were passed on so well her daughter did the exact same thing.

And don't tell me having a child with Downs Syndrome was a gift from God when in reality she was too dumb to prevent pregnancy after the age of 45, when the chances of having a child with this syndrome goes remarkably up. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against these kids but in an low income family who ends up taking care of them once the parents pass on? You guessed it. The state. How republican. :roll:

There's Newt Gingerich that touted the new moral majority that cheated on his wife. There's the politician that was caught on microphone bragging about his mistress that got all those awards for family values. There's the senator caught in the bathroom making sexual advances that bashed gays.

It's goes on and on. Hypocrites.

Two things I've learned in the short 52 years I've been on earth:

1.) If it sounds too good to be true it probably is

And

2.) If someone wears their religion on their sleeve their usually a hypocrite.
 
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There have always been hypocrites. One of my favorite examples is jesus writing in the sand as he challanged the crowd, "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone." I don't have to wonder too long just What he was writing that made the crowd turn away.

That being said, I would prefer that a politician not speak so much of their faith that it obstructs my observation of whether or not they are living it.

I will never understand the absolute hysteria that Palin provokes. Seems to me that we have worse people in public life who draw far less attention.
 
Yert Dweller said:
George Washington was a fundamentalist.
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No that would be Hitler. Washington was a deist, just like Jefferson. Jefferson publicly denied the Virgin Birth and wrote his own "Bible" with all references to Christ's divinity edited out - the fundies of Jefferson's day even used propaganda to spread fear that Jefferson would "take their Bibles away" (much like they still do 200 years later).

As for Palin, she could start by apologizing for endorsing 'death panels' as govt of Alaska, then flip-flopping after Obama was elected (I doubt that Jeebus would approve of her pulling the plug our our grannies).
 
Toothpicvic said:
As for Palin, she could start by apologizing for endorsing 'death panels' as govt of Alaska, then flip-flopping after Obama was elected (I doubt that Jeebus would approve of her pulling the plug our our grannies).
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She never endorsed death panels nor changed her attitude about the healthcare decision awareness day. Her endorsing the awareness day was the complete opposite of having government beauracrats deciding end of life measures for private citizens.

You continue to propagate this lie despite having run from defending it every time you are confronted on it.
 
jallman said:
She never endorsed death panels nor changed her attitude about the healthcare decision awareness day. Her endorsing the awareness day was the complete opposite of having government beauracrats deciding end of life measures for private citizens.

You continue to propagate this lie despite having run from defending it every time you are confronted on it.
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This is the 1st time that you actually explained "why" you think it's a lie. :lol: But actually her "Healthcare decisions day" speech was about "making end of life decisions for elderly people who may not be able to make such decisions themselves". How's that any different than Obama's legislation?
 
Toothpicvic said:
This is the 1st time that you actually explained "why" you think it's a lie. :lol: But actually her "Healthcare decisions day" speech was about "making end of life decisions for elderly people who may not be able to make such decisions themselves". How's that any different than Obama's legislation?
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Uh no, brainchild...

WHEREAS, Healthcare Decisions Day is designed to raise public awareness of the need to plan ahead for healthcare decisions, related to end of life care and medical decision-making whenever patients are unable to speak for themselves and to encourage the specific use of advance directives to communicate these important healthcare decisions. WHEREAS, in Alaska, Alaska Statute 13.52 provides the specifics of the advance directives law and offers a model form for patient use.
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It clearly is a statement encouraging individuals to plan advanced directives for themselves in the event that they cannot speak for themselves.
 
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