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Swiss voters approve constitutional ban of minarets

misterman said:
First babe of Jordan. Queen Noor. Former American. Just an observation.

Noor_Queen.jpg
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angelinajoliequeennoorwetkiss.jpg
 
I read about this yesterday, and it comes as no surprise at all to me. The Swiss are historically pretty nationalistic and highly value their country's image and symbolic culture. I'm not offended in the least.
 
lizzie said:
I read about this yesterday, and it comes as no surprise at all to me. The Swiss are historically pretty nationalistic and highly value their country's image and symbolic culture. I'm not offended in the least.
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Then you probably aren't offended when the Saudis ban bibles and stuff. That's nationalistic too.
 
Hey Scarecrow, here's something fun! Replace every instance of "Muslim" and "Islam" with "Jew" or "Judaism" in your posts and see how it works out! It might look familiar. Fun stuff!
 
lizzie said:
You are right. I'm not offended.
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Just checking.

What about when they kill Christians?

(I'm just in a fighting mood, having bumped into Scarecrow).
 
misterman said:
Just checking.

What about when they kill Christians?

(I'm just in a fighting mood, having bumped into Scarecrow).
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Am I offended when they kill Christians? Not personally. Do I think it's "right"? No. Saudi culture is what it is. Now- if they come here and start killing Americans, regardless of religion? I will be highly offended.
 
Arch Enemy said:
The Hijab is just a headwrapping. It's more cultural than anything else. I know a girl here in American who is a foreign exchange student, and she wears her Hijab out in public. I asked her about it once, and she told me that she doesn't even remember she's wearing it any more.
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And in nations unfortunately dominated by Islam, women are REQUIRED to wear them.

So much for their freedom of choice, eh?
 
misterman said:
Hey Scarecrow, here's something fun! Replace every instance of "Muslim" and "Islam" with "Jew" or "Judaism" in your posts and see how it works out! It might look familiar. Fun stuff!
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Well, I'm sure that reflects your views, but I'm not a Nazi and can't do what you obvioiusly like to do.

Also, the last time I checked, Judaism doesn't require their women to hide in portable tents when out in public, nor have I seen too many Jewish terrorists stealing airplanes and murdering thousands of Americans with them.

You know of any such incidents?
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
earlydays10_200.jpg


Proof enough.
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So, a small group of muslims accounts for all of them?! Wow, talk about stereotyping and showing ignorance. You really need to get to know some Muslims in your community instead of spreading hate.
 
Toothpicvic said:
Swiss voters' clear decision on Sunday to ban the construction of minarets has generated a wide range of emotions, from stunned joy to rueful concern. - swissinfo

Good job Switzerland:

Swiss voters' clear decision on Sunday to ban the construction of minarets has generated a wide range of emotions, from stunned joy to rueful concern.

Supporters of the initiative said the Swiss electorate wanted to put a brake on the Islamicisation of their country, whereas opponents were concerned about the violation of rights, not to mention an international backlash and possible boycott of Swiss products.

"Forced marriages and other things like cemeteries separating the pure and impure – we don't have that in Switzerland and we don't want to introduce it," said Ulrich Schlüer, co-president of the Initiative Committee to ban minarets.

Oskar Freysinger, a member of the rightwing Swiss People's Party and a driving force in the campaign, said he was "stunned and dumbfounded" by Sunday's result "since the entire establishment was against us".

"I would like to say to all the Muslims listening that this will in no way change their right to practise their religion, to pray or to gather [in mosques]," he said. "However, society wants to put a safeguard on the political-legal wing of Islam, for which there is no separation between state and religion."

The president of the People's Party, Toni Brunner, said voters had clearly rejected the idea of parallel societies and the further expansion of Islam – including radical, political Islam – in Switzerland.

According to final results, 57.5 per cent of voters and a majority of cantons backed the initiative – up from 34 per cent last month. Turnout was high at around 53 per cent.

Brunner said people who settled here had to realise that they couldn't turn up to work in a head scarf or get special dispensation from swimming lessons.
What's this?What's this?

* People's initiative

Government reaction

The government said in a statement it respected the decision.

For Justice Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf, the outcome reflected fears among the population of Islamic fundamentalist tendencies, "which reject our national traditions and which could disregard our legal order".

"These concerns have to be taken seriously. The government has always done so and will continue to do so in future. However, we take the view that a ban on the construction of new minarets is not a feasible means of countering extremist tendencies," she said.

Widmer-Schlumpf underlined that Sunday's vote was only directed against the construction of new minarets. "It is not a rejection of the Muslim community, religion or culture. Of that the government gives its assurance."
"Switzerland has lost"

Nevertheless, Saida Keller-Messahli, president of the Forum for an Advanced Islam, said the public's fears had been too great and "hatred had won over reason".

She said there would now be legal consequences, since the ban violated the freedom of religion.

The Federation of Islamic Organisations in Switzerland also regretted the result, saying the propaganda of the campaign supporters had succeeded in frightening the majority of voters.

The federation said it was too soon to judge the negative social and legal consequences – what was important now was to strengthen their public relations and clear up any misunderstandings or prejudices concerning Islam.

"Switzerland has lost," said Rifa'at Lenzin from the European Project for Interreligious Learning in Zurich, adding that the country was "leading the way" for Islamophobia.

Lenzin was only partly surprised by the result, "which corresponds to the current mood". She said she was astonished, however, that the "subjective and far-fetched arguments" of the minaret opponents had found such great support.

She added that the opponents of the initiative had completely underestimated the situation and that the political parties had been asleep, with only the centre-right Radical Party actively campaigning. The public spaces had been dominated by the campaign supporters, she said.
« Switzerland is heading straight for a battle with Islam. »

Jacques Neyrinck
Swiss values

Reinhard Schulze, a professor of Islamic studies at Bern University, said he was "very surprised" by the acceptance of the initiative.

He described the result as a "turning point", in that after many years of going in the other direction, voters had once again spoken for an unequal treatment of faiths.

"The next thing is obviously to look at how this plays with international law," he said, adding that he could already envisage complaints from the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.

The Council of Religions, a body comprising Christian churches, Jews and Muslims, said in a statement it regretted the result. People of all faiths must work together even harder, it said, for the respect of rights of freedom, for dialogue with the Muslim community and for integration.

"These are values that make Switzerland strong," it said.
Swiss image abroad

Looking at political reaction, the centre-left Social Democratic Party warned in a statement against the exclusion of Muslims in Switzerland.

"The yes vote was probably the result of a diffuse fear of a religious minority," it said.

This fear must be taken seriously, it added, but it must not be misinterpreted as a vote of mistrust against all Muslims living in Switzerland.

The party said it was also concerned about Switzerland's image abroad, saying that a foreign ministry offensive was clearly necessary, along with stronger integration efforts at all state levels.

Jacques Neyrinck from the centre-right Christian Democratic Party stressed that Switzerland would be the only country in the world to ban the construction of minarets.

"Switzerland is heading straight for a battle with Islam," he said, adding that he feared a boycott of Swiss products.
"Dirty campaign"

The four minarets already attached to mosques in the country are not affected by the initiative, and the president of the Islamic community in Langenthal, canton Bern, assumed his organisation would be able to add a minaret to their mosque since it had already been approved.

Mutalip Karaademi said he was disappointed by the strong level of support and the "dirty campaign", describing Muslims and Islamists and terrorists.

But Langenthal mayor Thomas Rufener, from the People's Party, said he didn't think the minaret would be built "for political reasons".

Thomas Stephens, swissinfo.ch and agencies
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So, what you're saying is, you're not for freedom of religion?
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
And in nations unfortunately dominated by Islam, women are REQUIRED to wear them.

So much for their freedom of choice, eh?
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Not all nations require it and those that do need to stop. I'm not sure how you can tout some feigned move for freedom when you champion a move by the Swiss government to ban them constructing their own houses of worship in the traditional fashion. I have no issue with the Swiss. They are a socialist government and have the right to do what they are doing but I don't want our government dictating such things here in the US. You show a penchant for a double standard.
 
misterman said:
Then you probably aren't offended when the Saudis ban bibles and stuff. That's nationalistic too.
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Like switzerland it's their country. Reality check here, not everybody is into multi-culturalism.
 
Dutch said:
Like switzerland it's their country. Reality check here, not everybody is into multi-culturalism.
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So any country should be able to do whatever they want? Hmmm.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
And in nations unfortunately dominated by Islam, women are REQUIRED to wear them.

So much for their freedom of choice, eh?
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It's ironic how you spout about "freedom of choice" in a thread about a country that is taking away a choice.
 
Arch Enemy said:
And I can give you many more examples of Muslims who are faithful and *gasp* do not participate in Terrorist activities.

I'm glad you can cite examples. I can cite examples of bad people from every walk of life.

You wish to dwell in ignorance of the religion, as you make remarks of firstly human problems, and secondly regional problems. There is nothing inherently evil about the Islamic religion... it's just not there.


There is, however, an embedded premise for ijtihad. Sometimes plurality makes bad people.
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Nothing of what you have said takes away from my argument.

I focus on the most violent of all religions and the most justification found in any major religion being Islam.

That is the point.

You have never proven your point that all religions are equal to Islam in violence and justification for the simple reason that it is a factually inaccurate statement.
 
misterman said:
:doh

You're judging a religion by its book? That's silly. You could look at the Bible and think Christians don't eat shellfish and walk around with long beards sacrificing goats too.
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Again you really need to take some time and study that "book"

There is more justification for violence in Islam than any other major religion.

This is why you have more violence committed int he name of Islam than any other major religion.

That was and is the only point.

Yeah, those are Muslim terrorists, not Muslims. The vast majority of Muslims are NOT terrorists. In case you didn't notice.
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Which is a moronic argument since I never said all Muslims are terrorists.

You might have proven that a few Muslims tend to be more aggressive, violent, etc. than people in other religions. That's not the same thing as proving anything about Muslims as a whole. You proved that .0002% are terrorists as opposed to .00000001% of Christians. Good for you. You want a medal or a Logic 101 textbook? (I suggest the latter).
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I'd prefer that you simply accept the reality of the statement and move on.
 
TheNextEra said:
It's ironic how you spout about "freedom of choice" in a thread about a country that is taking away a choice.
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The swiss are simply exercising control over matters within their own borders. I have no problem with this.
 
Dutch said:
The swiss are simply exercising control over matters within their own borders. I have no problem with this.
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Well, NK is simply exercising their control over matters within their borders like starving their population. Guess you have no problem with that.

Iran was simply exercising their control over matters within their own borders when they executed protesters over this last election. Guess you have no problem with that as well.
 
Dutch said:
It's not up to me, or you for that matter, to dictate what other cultures/nations are allowed to do.
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There is a difference in dictating and criticizing. Just because a country is allowed to do something, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

Criticizing the swiss for an action is not the same as dictating to them what they have to do.
 
TheNextEra said:
Well, NK is simply exercising their control over matters within their borders like starving their population. Guess you have no problem with that.

Iran was simply exercising their control over matters within their own borders when they executed protesters over this last election. Guess you have no problem with that as well.
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Get back to me when banning minarets in switzerland is the same thing as the world's largest communist concentration camp. ;)
 
Dutch said:
Get back to me when banning minarets in switzerland is the same thing as the world's largest communist concentration camp. ;)
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Ah so now you get to pick and choose the goalposts? Don't think so, sorry. You just like the fact that Muslims are being discriminated against and are quite satisfied with it.
 
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