Large Hadron Collider sets world record

I was watching a Science Channel show on this. They said the chance of CERN ending the world is like winning the lottery 14xs consecutively

jamesrage said:

The funny thing about technology, it improves over time. Computers used to be the size of large rooms, cell phones used to be the size of a brick, TVs used to be big,fat and heavy.

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What does that have to do with the creation and evaporation of black holes?

jamesrage said:

So it is okay to make fun of people who are not nerds because they may have an issue with a device that can create a black hole. Somehow that seems more like trekkie nerds laughing at people who think Yoda is in startrek than regular people laughing at 9-11 truffers.

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So it's ok to laugh at people so long as it's "regular people" laughing? If people are freaked out about the potential of a world ending black hole creation, they can read a little bit. Do some research, figure out what the chances are. You don't need to have a PhD in physics to understand the basic.

The primary scientific reasoning for the CERN was to approach higher power collisions that will enable us to examine conditions that may have existed shortly after the bang. The additional possibilities of proving the existence of the Higgs particle, being able to examine more details about string theory applications in real life, and the possibility of generating black holes are icing on the cake for physicists.

But the high energy collisions and duplication of conditions near the beginnings of the universe open some possibilities for other of the more esoteric off shoots of string and quantum theories to exist. Check out the causality possibilities that derive from both theories at:

SHTF411.com • Doomsday in reverse: Is backwards causality saving us?

Remember that scientists are excited about all of these possibilties because these are all UNKNOWNS. We don't know what the behavior of a micro black hole are if there really are such a thing at all. Duplication of big bang conditions could potentially duplicate the big bang - and where would that leave us? Possibly the new big bang would be in another dimension (possibly only three dimensional instead of our 4 dimensions) but who really knows?

So if people who do not know all of the ins and outs of string and quantum theories and how it all interacts see the 'experts' claim disaster as a result, what do you think they should do?

Polynikes said:

I would like to hear one intelligent response as to the dangers the Hadron Collider poses. So far I haven't heard one probable or feasible scenario.

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jamesrage said:

I do not think it is the fear that it would eat its way to the center of the earth. I think the fear that a black hole could be formed and suck in everything around it.

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Well, here's the scenario...

...make black hole (or maybe that's African American hole....it's so hard being PC these days)..

...baby ummm...."Hole" falls through containment....(though, if it's got an electric charge, we could hold it by magnetic fields.....) anyway, Baby Hole falls out of the crib (no, that's not ebonics) and plunges into the earth.

....Baby Hole is hungry....always soooo HUNGRY! Every atoms that gets too close gets gobbled, and as Baby Hole grows, it gets even hungrier, and eats more atoms.

Now, Baby Hole will fall through EVERYTHING....nothing can hold it, since it's gravity will shred the part of the container nearest it. So it will fall to the center of the earth, but it will keep the lateral motion it shared with everything else at the point on the surface of the earth where it formed, so Baby Hole can't fall straight to the center. So it will move on a curve trending eastward , and gradually slow down due to the inertia of the atoms it's sucked in on it's voyage. But it will circle the core in a complex fashion before settling down at the center eventually.

At the center of the planet the pressure is millions of psi....and all that pressure will basically force material into Baby Hole like the pressure inside a hose forces water out through a pin hole....but at millions of psi. Estimates are that it will take Baby Hole mere months to eat the whole planet, or even less.

Fortunately, LHC doesn't have the energy to generate black holes, so this scenario is speculative fiction, not a serious concern.

Let's face facts....NO ONE understands more about black holes than the nuclear physicists. BTW, every single physicist that has ever lived has lived only on Planet Earth. So if the physicists thought there was even a remote possibility of creating a black hole, they wouldn't be running the LHC.

Ikari said:

As for the collider, I'll wait to see if they catch a glimpse of the Higgs or not. It's an interesting question, and CERN will have a tool by which they can look at some pieces of string-theory (finally, till there's an experiment string-theory is nothing more than pretty math).

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Oh, that's not good.

According to 790 on Lexx, species that try to measure the mass of the Higgs Boson wind up shrinking their planet to the size of a pea.

Ethereal said:

Although I'm not overly concerned with the potential of a deadly black hole I don't like the dismissive attitude and air of superiority people have in regards to the possibility.

Have you ever created a micro-black hole before? Oh, you haven't? Then you don't know what's going to happen, do you?

Like I said, I'm not too concerned, but there's no reason to flippantly dismiss people's concerns either.

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Actually, there is plenty of reason for dismissing them flippantly. It's fun. Maybe they could learn something about basic physics before shooting their mouths off, just like those truther could do well to study basic engineering before embarassing themselves.

Ignorance shouldn't be coddled. People should be made ashamed to be ignorant, if they're going to presume on their ignorance to interfere in the affairs of others.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

Oh, that's not good.

According to 790 on Lexx, species that try to measure the mass of the Higgs Boson wind up shrinking their planet to the size of a pea.

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Wait...how did he know?

*cough*

I mean...No it won't! Nothing to see here, keep on moving.

carlkay58 said:

The primary scientific reasoning for the CERN was to approach higher power collisions that will enable us to examine conditions that may have existed shortly after the bang. The additional possibilities of proving the existence of the Higgs particle, being able to examine more details about string theory applications in real life, and the possibility of generating black holes are icing on the cake for physicists.

But the high energy collisions and duplication of conditions near the beginnings of the universe open some possibilities for other of the more esoteric off shoots of string and quantum theories to exist. Check out the causality possibilities that derive from both theories at:

SHTF411.com • Doomsday in reverse: Is backwards causality saving us?

Remember that scientists are excited about all of these possibilties because these are all UNKNOWNS. We don't know what the behavior of a micro black hole are if there really are such a thing at all. Duplication of big bang conditions could potentially duplicate the big bang - and where would that leave us? Possibly the new big bang would be in another dimension (possibly only three dimensional instead of our 4 dimensions) but who really knows?

So if people who do not know all of the ins and outs of string and quantum theories and how it all interacts see the 'experts' claim disaster as a result, what do you think they should do?

Click to expand...

CERN isn't even close to the energies needed to simulate Big Bang conditions. That task is most likely beyond human engineering abilities. It's certainly beyond the ability of any modern technology.

Dyslexia kicked in...

For a moment I thought this thread was about a large hardon that set a world record.....

carlkay58 said:

The primary scientific reasoning for the CERN was to approach higher power collisions that will enable us to examine conditions that may have existed shortly after the bang. The additional possibilities of proving the existence of the Higgs particle, being able to examine more details about string theory applications in real life, and the possibility of generating black holes are icing on the cake for physicists.

But the high energy collisions and duplication of conditions near the beginnings of the universe open some possibilities for other of the more esoteric off shoots of string and quantum theories to exist. Check out the causality possibilities that derive from both theories at:

SHTF411.com • Doomsday in reverse: Is backwards causality saving us?

Remember that scientists are excited about all of these possibilties because these are all UNKNOWNS. We don't know what the behavior of a micro black hole are if there really are such a thing at all. Duplication of big bang conditions could potentially duplicate the big bang - and where would that leave us? Possibly the new big bang would be in another dimension (possibly only three dimensional instead of our 4 dimensions) but who really knows?

So if people who do not know all of the ins and outs of string and quantum theories and how it all interacts see the 'experts' claim disaster as a result, what do you think they should do?

Click to expand...

As long as the big bang desroys someone else's universe (dimension) I'm ok with it assuming it doesn't interrupt tv reception. Its a no-"Braner". Then again might we get a big bang and a black hole. We already have the black hole of mortgage backed securities.

Caine said:

Dyslexia kicked in...

For a moment I thought this thread was about a large hardon that set a world record.....

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You mean a large hardon collider, don't you? Which sounds incredibly painful.

Ikari said:

What does that have to do with the creation and evaporation of black holes?

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Today its micro-black holes, years from now it could be something much larger and does not disappear.

So it's ok to laugh at people so long as it's "regular people" laughing?

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If you post on a political forum website then most likely you are not regular or average seeing how a lot of people do not give a rats ass about political issues.

If people are freaked out about the potential of a world ending black hole creation, they can read a little bit. Do some research, figure out what the chances are. You don't need to have a PhD in physics to understand the basic.

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Theories do not mean squat to a lot of people especially when it might be considered something dangerous. I can have a theory that extremist Muslims who make women were burquas are closet homosexuals who are offended by the female body. But until I get solid evidence it doesn't mean ****, because no one has yet to secretly video taped Extremist muslim males engaging in homosexual acts. Most normal people so far have yet to see a micro-black hole and when most people hear the word black hole they think a hole that can suck anything into it and that nothing can escape from it.

Even if all the nerds are running around claiming nothing bad can happen it and they show a bunch of videos on PBS NOVA, history channel or discovery channel of actual micro-black holes forming and disappearing. It doesn't change the fact that someone will try to further develop and it will be something dangerous, that is where the real fear should be.

Marty Mcfly is going to pop out of the resulting collision according to this article.

Large Hadron Collider Could Create Wormholes: a Gateway for Time Travelers? | Universe Today


Prof Irina Aref'eva and Dr Igor Volovich, mathematical physicists at the Steklov Mathematical Institute in Moscow believe the energies generated by the subatomic collisions in the LHC may be powerful enough to rip space-time itself, spawning wormholes. A wormhole not only has the ability to take a shortcut between two positions in space, it can also take a shortcut between two positions in time. So, the LHC could be the first ever "time machine", providing future time travelers with a documented time and place where a wormhole "opened up" into our time-line. This year could therefore be "Year Zero", the base year by which time travel is limited to.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

Actually, there is plenty of reason for dismissing them flippantly. It's fun. Maybe they could learn something about basic physics before shooting their mouths off, just like those truther could do well to study basic engineering before embarassing themselves.

Ignorance shouldn't be coddled. People should be made ashamed to be ignorant, if they're going to presume on their ignorance to interfere in the affairs of others.

Click to expand...

I've heard the explanations as to why such a scenario is not likely to occur. Given my limited knowledge on complex physics I'm inclined to take their word for it, but let's not pretend like these physicists know everything about everything. There are still massive holes in their knowledge of the universe and its inner-workings. There are unknown variables at work that cannot be accounted for in any explanation, which makes the possibility of some kind of catastrophe plausible, but seemingly improbable. The fact that it's plausible is slightly unsettling. Anyway, I'M not worried about it. We've always taken risks in the pursuit of greater knowledge and understanding and this is no different.