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Iran approves building 10 enrichment sites

What people say is really quite irrelevant. What they are capable of matters and Iran's really not able to do anything more then say they will build more facilities.

It's the same old thing. You are just not getting this. The world is full of people that would like nothing more than to push the envelope against the international powers.

We have North Korea launching missiles into the Sea of Japan. Are they really a threat to America personally? And would they dare launch into Japan or South Korea? Of course not. But their constant defiance towards the United Nations and constant "do something" towards the U.S. undermines our credibility and encourages others to be similar pains in the asses. It makes life harder for us.

Saddam Hussein constantly pushed the envelope and rushed his troops towards the Kuwaiti border. He defied the UN's mandates in regards to the cease fire that spared his and his off spring's throne and continually implied to his neighbors that his WMD was secure and sound. Every thug in the world watched how that played out.

Iran is doing the same old grandstanding in front of the world and using threats of nuclear expansion to dare the powers of the world to do something. Thus far, the entire world has seen Iran smack the UN, the EU, and America in the face over and over again. Eventually, they will force a violent hand. But we will wait until that violence is more deadlier than is has to be and refuse to acknowledge that our stubborn will to talk our way into trouble equals "good diplomacy."

Some of us talk ill of the UN. Some of us defend it. Well, what exactrly has wrecked the UN's credibility since the end of the Cold War? Has it merely been the fact that it is made up of dictators? Or has the constant undermining of people, who "are incapable" of their words, taken its toll too?

What they are "capable of" doesn't matter. How others are encourgaed does. The more we talk, the more Iran shoves. These people need to be shown that their are consequences for challenging the world powers, of which there have been none to date.
 
It's the same old thing. You are just not getting this. The world is full of people that would like nothing more than to push the envelope against the international powers.

And when they have a pea shooter, we just laugh at them. What you say is really quite irrelevant. What you are capable of is what people care about. South Africa did not say a word about their secret nuclear plan. But they were capable of delivering several working gun types. Capabilities always trump words. If we got our panties in a bunch every time someone made a threat, we'd be hopeless. Care about what nations can do, not what they say.

We have North Korea launching missiles into the Sea of Japan. Are they really a threat to America personally? And would they dare launch into Japan or South Korea? Of course not. But their constant defiance towards the United Nations and constant "do something" towards the U.S. undermines our credibility and encourages others to be similar pains in the asses. It makes life harder for us.

How exactly does it make life harder for us? Frankly speaking they know they can't do anything. And in some ways we pander to this to keep in power those who know that they can't do anything. It would be far worse to get a new leader who didn't realize the risk he was taking. So we know they are largely irrelevant. But we play the game to keep the status quo. Are we actually at risk? No.

It only undermines credibility because some people don't understand the game. What encourages others to be pains in our asses is our questionable stance of nuclear weapons. Not necessarily the acts of those who have them.

Saddam Hussein constantly pushed the envelope and rushed his troops towards the Kuwaiti border. He defied the UN's mandates in regards to the cease fire that spared his and his off spring's throne and continually implied to his neighbors that his WMD was secure and sound. Every thug in the world watched how that played out.

Yet everyone knew that Saddam had virtually no power and that in he actually tried something, his neighbors had the military force without the US to crush any attack. And as every thug knows, Saddam was playing a game with the US fully knowing he didn't have squat to back it up. Notice that a large number of inspectors also stated this years before the invasion. In many ways, the target audience is not the world. It's the citizenry of the nation in question. Is North Korea going to use a weapon? Hell no. But that weapon is a huge legitimatize for the regime. Iran is trying to do the same thing. Blame the West for Iran's problems and a show of rebellion to gather support. How many times have we seen this in the Middle East?

Iran is doing the same old grandstanding in front of the world and using threats of nuclear expansion to dare the powers of the world to do something.

With likely full knowledge that it can't do anything about it. Again, the likelihood of them pulling it off is as likely as a gay atheist republican getting the GOP's presidential nomination. Not going to happen. This is just blustering and educated minds know it. Same as the almost on regular basis saber rattling from North Korea.

Thus far, the entire world has seen Iran smack the UN, the EU, and America in the face over and over again.

Smack? Come again? How has Iran smacked anyone other then its own population? All Iran has done is be extremely uncooperative, but not to the point where the regime is actually threatened.

Eventually, they will force a violent hand. But we will wait until that violence is more deadlier than is has to be and refuse to acknowledge that our stubborn will to talk our way into trouble equals "good diplomacy."

Really? You really think that a regime that has never risked its own neck will force a confrontation it knows it cannot win? Iran's leadership is not crazy by any measure. And every single person here I have asked this question to runs like a worthless coward: Why would a regime that has always sent someone else to die in its place risk its own power? Besides, Iran likely sees the writing on the wall as many of the other Middle Eastern nations do. When Oil runs out, they got nothing and that day is not that far off.

Some of us talk ill of the UN. Some of us defend it. Well, what exactrly has wrecked the UN's credibility since the end of the Cold War? Has it merely been the fact that it is made up of dictators? Or has the constant undermining of people, who "are incapable" of their words, taken its toll too?

Okay...not sure how that address what I actually wrote.

What they are "capable of" doesn't matter.

Yes it does. No one rational makes plans around what people say. They make them around what they are capable of. The Russians don't care about our assurances that the missile shield won't be used against them. They know that with enough defense funding, it can eventually be used against them. They measure capabilities, not words.

How others are encourgaed does. The more we talk, the more Iran shoves. These people need to be shown that their are consequences for challenging the world powers, of which there have been none to date.

Perhaps you think that the human race is so stupid that they think Iran would win a war. Granted, I often think humans are idiots, but not that stupid. When push comes to shove, Iran will back down. How other are encouraged by a country that knows they will lose a war into engaging in similar behavior makes little sense. What encourages countries on our hit list is our hands off policy towards countries with nukes. Get a nuke and we won't touch you.

Capabilities are always what has mattered. No one gives a **** if you say this or that. If you are completely unable to actually make good on your threat, is that a threat?
 
It's the same old thing. You are just not getting this. The world is full of people that would like nothing more than to push the envelope against the international powers.

We have North Korea launching missiles into the Sea of Japan. Are they really a threat to America personally? And would they dare launch into Japan or South Korea? Of course not. But their constant defiance towards the United Nations and constant "do something" towards the U.S. undermines our credibility and encourages others to be similar pains in the asses. It makes life harder for us.

Saddam Hussein constantly pushed the envelope and rushed his troops towards the Kuwaiti border. He defied the UN's mandates in regards to the cease fire that spared his and his off spring's throne and continually implied to his neighbors that his WMD was secure and sound. Every thug in the world watched how that played out.

Iran is doing the same old grandstanding in front of the world and using threats of nuclear expansion to dare the powers of the world to do something. Thus far, the entire world has seen Iran smack the UN, the EU, and America in the face over and over again. Eventually, they will force a violent hand. But we will wait until that violence is more deadlier than is has to be and refuse to acknowledge that our stubborn will to talk our way into trouble equals "good diplomacy."

Some of us talk ill of the UN. Some of us defend it. Well, what exactrly has wrecked the UN's credibility since the end of the Cold War? Has it merely been the fact that it is made up of dictators? Or has the constant undermining of people, who "are incapable" of their words, taken its toll too?

What they are "capable of" doesn't matter. How others are encourgaed does. The more we talk, the more Iran shoves. These people need to be shown that their are consequences for challenging the world powers, of which there have been none to date.

A couple of well-placed thermite plasma bombs connecting with the right targets will convince Iran to knock off its bull****.
 
Remember also that two days ago Iran announced that it was 'considering' withdrawing from the Non-Proliferation Treaty. If it does that then the UN will not have any jurisdiction over Iran's nuclear program and will have to remove any and all actions against Iran that are currently in place because of their nuclear program. Whether the UN will be able to introduce new sanctions after Iran withdraws is something the legal eagles will have to discuss and figure out.

Hell, what all of this is going to show is how little power and authority the UN actualy has without the US' military getting involved.
 
And both replies show the trouble with Iran's path. Yes, if Iran withdraws from the treaty they will require military intervention to force them to stop their nuclear program. If that happens, you will find it extremely difficult to build a consesus for military action within this country or the international community until such time as it is demonstrated without a doubt that Iran's nuclear program is meant for harming others - read this as when Iran explodes its first nuke in a country other than Iran.

So Iran opts out of the treaty, all of the UN sanctions are then dissolved so the international effort at controlling the situation is voided. Iran can then open up trade to get what they need from other countries. While some countries may still refuse to deal with them, there will be one country or another that will. And that is all they really need is a single source.

With proper connections in China or Russia (most probable is China), Iran could have a nuclear capability within two years or less. With 10 additional enrichment sites, they could have the material for 10 or so bombs within that period. Then comes the difficulty of delivering them. Their ballistic missiles are above average in range, below average in accuracy, but that is what nukes are good for - you don't need pinpoint accuracy with a nuke. But ballistic missile defense in the region is probably the best in the world with Israel, Saudi Arabia, and US forces in the region. So ballistic missile delivery systems are fairly high risk for the few warheads. So you need some 'volunteers' to deliver the bombs in person - something that is not that difficult to obtain in the region.

In all, it seems a no-brainer for Iran to do so. There really are not anyone out there to stop them (with the exceptions of Israel, but they are already set up to illustrate Iran's need to be able to defend themselves).

Well, the UN can't stop them. And in the short term, our current man-boy President won't put up sufficient roadblocks either. So, I'm wondering if there might not come a day when Israelis finally decide it was a nice try but it's time to give up the land and exodus out to friendlier territories.:roll:
 
Well, the UN can't stop them. And in the short term, our current man-boy President won't put up sufficient roadblocks either. So, I'm wondering if there might not come a day when Israelis finally decide it was a nice try but it's time to give up the land and exodus out to friendlier territories.:roll:
The purpose of the UN is so the US can keep an eye on everyone.
 
Well, the UN can't stop them. And in the short term, our current man-boy President won't put up sufficient roadblocks either. So, I'm wondering if there might not come a day when Israelis finally decide it was a nice try but it's time to give up the land and exodus out to friendlier territories.:roll:

Or remain there and carry out their training efforts off of American Carriers and hold Rosh Hashanah in Adak or Natanz this year. Perhaps some festive lights in Qom or downtown Tehran would be appropriate as well.
 
Or remain there and carry out their training efforts off of American Carriers and hold Rosh Hashanah in Adak or Natanz this year. Perhaps some festive lights in Qom or downtown Tehran would be appropriate as well.

Well then they better act quick! A few well placed nukes will play hell on Israel.
 
Worse than play hell, it wipes them from the face of this earth.
 
Iran can block the straits of Hormuz, and no one wants that, especially not now. I wonder if Iran would play this game without their oil card (Hormuz), the current situation on both sides of the Iranian border and the current potus.
Whatever western nations do they should not make idle threats, the Iranian regime uses those threats to convince Iranians of the need of gaining nuclear weapons. A small air raid would buy time and could create a sense of hopelessness among the Iranian Islamists. A big, full scale attack could do wonders for the support of the Iranian regime, and that's the last thing we need.
 
Worse than play hell, it wipes them from the face of this earth.

My point exactly. So then I wonder...Israelis and Jews not being a suicidal people, how will they end up choosing to deal with Iran. Can they really succeed with a pre-emptive strike on Iran? How long of a period of security can that actually provide?

Thinking it through, I come up seeing a day when Israelis might just decide to give it up.
 
I doubt that a nation that reveres Massada will ever just give up anything and leave. I do expect that they are the ones that will take some sort of action to prevent Iran from joining the nuke club because Iran itself states that their prime reason to obtain nukes is to use them on Israel.
 
Okay then, Israel needs to rock n roll pretty damn soon. And when they do, they need to start taking possession of property.

They can't be at peace, being a pint-size nation as they are now. They need acreage and dramatic population growth. Otherwise, this thing goes on as it has the last sixty years.
 
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You know, I was thinking...If by some crazy move Iran did nuke Israel, wouldn't the fallout just blow west to them?? But I guess it wouldn't be all that much...
 
My point exactly. So then I wonder...Israelis and Jews not being a suicidal people, how will they end up choosing to deal with Iran. Can they really succeed with a pre-emptive strike on Iran? How long of a period of security can that actually provide?

Thinking it through, I come up seeing a day when Israelis might just decide to give it up.

How long a period of security did it offer Israel after Osirak, Iraq?

I do believe the Iraqi nuclear ambitions were set back decades. Iran is vulnerable....now. Enriched uranium being spun into weapons grade material requires heat, we know where they are. So do the Israelis.

Israeli jets off of American Carriers, supported by US technology, radar jamming capabilities, no American though in Iranian waters or airspace. Send the Israeli calvary in, Have a lil bagel with cream celebrating the Jewish New Year....and rage all up and over Iran's nuclear facilities....and then go back the next night if it's not done correctly.

It ain't gonna get easier. Their weapons continue to improve, the Iranians ain't fools, they realize the clock is ticking too.
 
As long as they maintain full US support. How will China and Russia deal with such action? What if America continues in its current Progressive direction?

Our support is not necessarily ground in stone.
 
As long as they maintain full US support. How will China and Russia deal with such action?

We explain to the Chinese and Russians that Iranian nukes are intolerable and thus, like Osirak, we're gonna alter the Iranian nuclear program a few decades backwards, that's all. Cause......forgetting the Chinese and Russians for a second....the day Iran successfully tests a nuclear weapon...that changes the entire face of the security situation in the Persian Gulf and entire ME overnight.

What if America continues in its current Progressive direction?

:( Then expect another 9-11.

Our support is not necessarily ground in stone.

That's unfortunate but you're correct.
 
How long a period of security did it offer Israel after Osirak, Iraq?

I do believe the Iraqi nuclear ambitions were set back decades. Iran is vulnerable....now. Enriched uranium being spun into weapons grade material requires heat, we know where they are. So do the Israelis.

Israeli jets off of American Carriers, supported by US technology, radar jamming capabilities, no American though in Iranian waters or airspace. Send the Israeli calvary in, Have a lil bagel with cream celebrating the Jewish New Year....and rage all up and over Iran's nuclear facilities....and then go back the next night if it's not done correctly.

It ain't gonna get easier. Their weapons continue to improve, the Iranians ain't fools, they realize the clock is ticking too.

I agree!

It's time to disarm the Iranians. They had a chance to play nice... now they can suck missiles, bombs, bullets, and like it.
 
just look at the different face iran brashly wears now that they perceive a weakling and coward in the oval office

ahmedinejad would never dare to behave this way in front of the world if we had a man on the job

he's actually ESCALATING and accelerating his nuke program

unbelievable

You mean like our last president? :funny

Please tell me what Bush did any better? Actually he made the situation worse by invading Iraq and creating a power vacuum.

The trouble is it's a no win situation. There is nothing we can do militarily or otherwise and Iran knows it. And that is why they are thumbing their noses at the U.S. and the world.

We don't need a war in three places with this one shutting down world's oil supply in this part of the world, and probably causing a severe depression worldwide. Obama is smart enough to know that. Are you?

And our military is strained as it is. It would also be just plain wrong to attack a country when a fair number there don't even support their government. If we attacked that support would go down the tubes.

The only other option are sanctions which aren't effective if the whole world doesn't partake. Good luck with that one.

So you call a president that knows a no win situation when he sees it and actually thinks through the cause and effect of an attack unlike his predecessor a coward and a weakling? Come on take your partisan blinders off and be a little more aware.
 
Meat-shields, mind you.

Would you call it the same thing if your position was attacked and thousands were killed including your family members? Or is "Meat shields" reserved for those you don't know or of a different ethnic origin? Just asking. Sorry i just find those words a little callous and macabre.

And know I'm not a pacifist. I've served my time in the military but know a military solution should always be the very last resort and only in a very grave situation. I don't see this grave enough. There's no good solution but it's not imminently grave. It's not a given Iran will attack someone. I personally believe the whole nuclear thing for Iran's leadership is self preservation. Using nukes by Iran without provocation would be suicide.

That said, Ahmadinejad should keep his trap shut. He doesn't exude high intelligence or a good handle on history, especially the holocaust.
 
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I agree!

It's time to disarm the Iranians. They had a chance to play nice... now they can suck missiles, bombs, bullets, and like it.


Are you going to be on the deployment? It's easy to talk war when you don't have to be part of it. It's not video game you know. ;)
 
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