• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Polish president signs chemical castration law

So a rapist can never be rehabilitated?
Lowest rate of rehabilitation for any serious violent crime. Child rapists are even worse.
Lowest rate of rehabilitation?
Care to back that up?
Because as far as I know, in the U.S., sexual offenders have the second lowest recidivism rate.




Ahh but when looking from the Victim's point of view, which people who are against this sort of punishment would most likely not do, one will notice that a Cruel and Unusual punishment has been inflicted upon them for no crime. Therefore, you'd be hard pressed to find a punishment for Rape that isn't cruel and unusual.
No. Cruel and Unusual punishment has not been inflicted against the victim. A crime was committed against them.
 
No. Cruel and Unusual punishment has not been inflicted against the victim. A crime was committed against them.

Well if you want to use the textbook definition of the word punishment then yes. No punishment has been inflicted on the victim. But if you chip away at the semantics, guess what. Some asshole rapes a person, that person has to live with it for the rest of their lives while the rapist suffers at best a horrible rape-death in prison and at worst they live their life with minor inconvenience. It's just a little too unsure for me.
 
... while the rapist suffers at best a horrible rape-death in prison and at worst they live their life with minor inconvenience. It's just a little too unsure for me.
Well that is just a little simplistic and untrue for me.
 
So a rapist can never be rehabilitated?
About 50 years in prison should do the trick.
The Poles have a good idea and we should use it - either this or 50 years in prison.
Rehabilitation should only be for teen-aged criminals, and even then it may not take, it may be too late for them,sadly.
Prevention is the answer, children's services with a much higher caliper of people.
 
About 50 years in prison should do the trick.
50 years is excessive and not needed.


Go get raped/sodomized and then talk to me. ;)
It would not change my point of view.

Nor does this does make any sense as a continuation of what was originally quoted.

... while the rapist suffers at best a horrible rape-death in prison and at worst they live their life with minor inconvenience. It's just a little too unsure for me.
Well that is just a little simplistic and untrue for me.
Go get raped/sodomized and then talk to me. ;)
Your reply just doesn't follow.
 
50 years is excessive and not needed.


It would not change my point of view.

Nor does this does make any sense as a continuation of what was originally quoted.

Your reply just doesn't follow.

When you quote half of my post, you're right it doesn't make any sense. I was comparing the possible outcomes of punishment for the rapist as vs. to the pain and suffering inflicted on the victims.

Due to the flaws and shortcomings of the system, bad people get off WAY to easily, and Victims are oftentimes never compensated enough, because how do you compensate a rape victim? a child that has been molested? Someone who has been shot or had a loved one get shot? You can't, and when Rapists inflict the damage they do on people, both physical and mental, and then get off with 5 years in prison and parole, it seems to me like the Justice system has failed that particular victim. Now, when a rapist gets a prison sentence and gets raped in the showers, I feel like a little Justice has been done there.
 
Last edited:
When you quote half of my post, you're right it doesn't make any sense. I was comparing the possible outcomes of punishment for the rapist as vs. to the pain and suffering inflicted on the victims.
There was nothing wrong with the way I quoted what you said.
I quoted the relevant portion to which my reply was directed. (The second half of your comparison.) To me it was simplistic and untrue.
Regardless, your reply still wouldn't have followed even if I had quoted the first half of your comparison. Because the first half is irrelevant to my comment on the second half.



Due to the flaws and shortcomings of the system, bad people get off WAY to easily, and Victims are oftentimes never compensated enough, ...
Both are opinion and not necessarily true.


... because how do you compensate a rape victim? a child that has been molested? Someone who has been shot or had a loved one get shot? You can't, ...
The suffering/damage that is experienced is the reason it is a crime in the first place.
Compensation for said suffering/damage comes in the form of having the Government prosecute those who are believed to have committed the crime.
Sorry you do not feel that is enough.



... and when Rapists inflict the damage they do on people, both physical and mental, and then get off with 5 years in prison and parole, it seems to me like the Justice system has failed that particular victim.
I disagree.
Five years of having your freedom taken, your life regimented and all the other experiences that go along with prison, as well as what they then suffer once they are discharged, seems to be more than an adequate amount of punishment.



Now, when a rapist gets a prison sentence and gets raped in the showers, I feel like a little Justice has been done there.
And there you have it.
It is more like you want legalized revenge instead of punishment for doing wrong.
 
There was nothing wrong with the way I quoted what you said.
I quoted the relevant portion to which my reply was directed. (The second half of your comparison.) To me it was simplistic and untrue.
Regardless, your reply still wouldn't have followed even if I had quoted the first half of your comparison. Because the first half is irrelevant to my comment on the second half.




Both are opinion and not necessarily true.



The suffering/damage that is experienced is the reason it is a crime in the first place.
Compensation for said suffering/damage comes in the form of having the Government prosecute those who are believed to have committed the crime.
Sorry you do not feel that is enough.




I disagree.
Five years of having your freedom taken, your life regimented and all the other experiences that go along with prison, as well as what they then suffer once they are discharged, seems to be more than an adequate amount of punishment.




And there you have it.
It is more like you want legalized revenge instead of punishment for doing wrong.

Have any criminal acts been committed against you?
 
If it were up to me I would use a knife instead of a drug that isn't permanent.

Rape, be it of a child or an adult, is the one crime that does not ever have an excuse. Murder, theft can at least have a valid excuse. Rape never does. For that reason (among others of course) I think that it should have the harshest sentence possible.

Never? So there can't be the possibility of it then? I don' know if that's absolutely true.

As for castration, I don't think it falls within proper punishment of the State. And if it does, I say we use it against all stupid people first.
 
Have any criminal acts been committed against you?
Any acts committed against me or my family does not matter in regards to what is being discussed.
 
Any acts committed against me or my family does not matter in regards to what is being discussed.

It SHOULDN'T but yes, yes it does. If you haven't been raped then how do you even know what is equivalent or just? You need to speak with rape victims, rapists, look at recidivism rates, and understand fully the rape issue before you claim that a short stint in prison (with or without the buttrape) is enough punishment for a rapist.
 
As for castration, I don't think it falls within proper punishment of the State. And if it does, I say we use it against all stupid people first.
I agree.
But what about as mandatory treatment? (chemical type)



Rape, be it of a child or an adult, is the one crime that does not ever have an excuse.
Really. Unless of course it is being claimed that such an act occurred when it never actually did.

Let me put it this way.
As far as I am concerned, if a crime (felony) has been committed and the person is of mind to know that what they were doing was wrong, then there can be no excuse, they may have a reason for doing it, but it is not an excuse and punishment should ensue.
 
It SHOULDN'T but yes, yes it does.
No, no it doesn't, nor should it.
One needs to divorce themselves from any emotional attachments when discussing such.


If you haven't been raped then how do you even know what is equivalent or just?
Equivalent?
Just?
You are speaking along the terms of 'Retributive Justice'. Something that has been shown to have little if any affect on actual crime.
Secondly, whether or not I have been raped doesn't matter one bit unless I am letting it bias my position. Which I am not.



You need to speak with rape victims, rapists, look at recidivism rates, and understand fully the rape issue before you claim that a short stint in prison (with or without the buttrape) is enough punishment for a rapist.
I think I understand the 'Rape' issue better that you think I do.
A persons personal suffering (after the fact) is part of the reason it is against the law in the first place and that personal suffering varies just as their opinions vary on what should be done with the rapist. For some death isn't good enough.
And because those opinions are mostly fueled by emotion, it is a great example of why punishment should be devoid of such.
In addition, five years is not a "short stint".

As for statistics. lol
Since you mentioned statistics like you know what you are talking about and I don't; Let me inform you as to the following.

These are the current published Government Stats so don't complain about the dates.


Bureau of Justice Statistics
Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 1994
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/rpr94.pdf

Those who have committed sexual assaults have the 2nd lowest recidivism rate. Homicide being the lowest. Rape coming in at 3rd lowest.

Within 3 years of release, 2.5% of released rapists were rearrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for a new homicide.
(First page, Highlights.)
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/rpr94.pdf
Please note that these are only rearrests, not new convictions.
And 2.5% isn't high at all.
 
Wow, really? If they're still so much of a danger then keep them in jail. That's cruel and unusual punishment.

As an aside does anyone know the reason why the wording "cruel and unusual" is used? It always seamed strange to me that its implied that the fact the punishment is unusual somehow makes it worse.
 
Now, when a rapist gets a prison sentence and gets raped in the showers, I feel like a little Justice has been done there.

I've been raped, as a child and as a young adult. It does nothing to undermine my position that our casual attitude toward prison rape is a blight upon our honor as a society and that we owe ourselves and our prisoners-- even rapists-- better than that.

There is no justice in it. There is only more pain, and if I've learned anything about pain in my life, it's that there are two types of pain: pain that makes us more careful in the future, and pain that makes us want to hurt anyone and everyone else until we feel better.

Neither kind of pain gives us the results we want from criminals-- and if you're hurting someone else to make yourself feel better, you have to inflict a Hell of a lot more pain on a Hell of a lot more people before you're satisfied. Balancing the scales is never enough.
 
I've been raped, as a child and as a young adult. It does nothing to undermine my position that our casual attitude toward prison rape is a blight upon our honor as a society and that we owe ourselves and our prisoners-- even rapists-- better than that.

There is no justice in it. There is only more pain, and if I've learned anything about pain in my life, it's that there are two types of pain: pain that makes us more careful in the future, and pain that makes us want to hurt anyone and everyone else until we feel better.

Neither kind of pain gives us the results we want from criminals-- and if you're hurting someone else to make yourself feel better, you have to inflict a Hell of a lot more pain on a Hell of a lot more people before you're satisfied. Balancing the scales is never enough.

Prison rape isn't all that common really. :\ I was sad to find out that it was just another thing blown out of proportion by Hollywood. :(
 
Back
Top Bottom