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U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban

repeter

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The War in Afghanistan has taken precedent again. An interim move, this hopefully will appeal to the populations to stop the fighting from the inside.

The U.S.-led coalition and the Afghan government are launching an initiative to persuade Taliban insurgents to lay down their weapons, offering jobs and protection to the militants who choose to abandon their fight.

U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban - WSJ.com

Seems like a very good plan, on paper, lets see how the execution unfolds, especially considering Afghanistan's intense level of corruption.

P.S. Mods, not sure if thise should go in news 2.0 or Mainstream Media...
 
And what happens to that protection when the US leaves?
 
Talibans and insurgents will always go for the kill. Its endless problem in Aghanistan and Iraq. This has now spread to Pakistan and soon to India I guess.
 
Talibans and insurgents will always go for the kill. Its endless problem in Aghanistan and Iraq. This has now spread to Pakistan and soon to India I guess.


Which is precisely why the free world must prevail against the forces of radicalism in the religion of Islam. Fore, if we abandon this fight we will be back later to fight another more protracted, and bloody one.


j-mac
 
Which is precisely why the free world must prevail against the forces of radicalism in the religion of Islam. Fore, if we abandon this fight we will be back later to fight another more protracted, and bloody one.


j-mac

But you guys can't remain in Afghanistan and Iraq forever. When you leave it could end up in a worse scenario.
 
But you guys can't remain in Afghanistan and Iraq forever. When you leave it could end up in a worse scenario.


And that is why we must win, what ever that looks like.


j-mac
 
And that is why we must win, what ever that looks like.


j-mac

We will see how it goes. Obama has vowed to finish the job in afghanistan and I am predicting he will send another 30,000 troops there.
 
But you guys can't remain in Afghanistan and Iraq forever. When you leave it could end up in a worse scenario.

Not could, but will. When we leave, it all falls apart. Civil war is inevitable.
 
The Taliban may appear to surrender and give up their arms, but it will just be temporary. You can't buy friends.....you can only rent them.
 
The War in Afghanistan has taken precedent again. An interim move, this hopefully will appeal to the populations to stop the fighting from the inside.



U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban - WSJ.com

Seems like a very good plan, on paper, lets see how the execution unfolds, especially considering Afghanistan's intense level of corruption.

P.S. Mods, not sure if thise should go in news 2.0 or Mainstream Media...
The government can't do anything right. Our military should be abolished and every individual should provide his own defense from the Taliban.
 
Talibans and insurgents will always go for the kill. Its endless problem in Aghanistan and Iraq. This has now spread to Pakistan and soon to India I guess.

It started with Pakistan and spilt into Afghanistan. For a better part of the 20th and 21st century one could call the tribal militants an extension of the Pakistani Military. Even now, there are Generals and other positions within the Pakistani military that are "pro-taliban".

Not to mention the tribesmen were launching attacks against the British positions in Pakistan.
 
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Hopefully, this new tack will work, but I don't have very high expectations.

What worries me is what seems to have amounted to a dangerous lack of coherent strategy from the onset, limited leadership on the ground, grossly deficient understanding of the historic experience in Afghanistan, and a lack of attention to the role Afghanistan's local tribes play. Each of those factors has contributed to the current situation. Whether the forthcoming strategic planning effort by the President will really get to the heart of those issues remains to be seen. If it is merely a more robust counterinsurgency strategy, it probably will not accomplish too much in Afghanistan. However, it could further drain public and Congressional support for a conflict that is critically important for the United States.

In terms of this latest tactic, the effort to try to peal off what relative moderates exist within the Taliban, and "relative" needs to be emphasized given that the Taliban is not a moderate movement by any reasonable definition of "moderate," should have occurred from the onset. Why was so obvious a tactic not tried earlier? In a large range of past conflicts, efforts had been pursued to divide the ranks of the enemy. Again, I suspect what amounted to a blind spot in operational tactics, likely resulted from a deficient understanding of history.

From a pure power perspective, the proper time for such a tactic was early in the conflict when it was widely understood that U.S./NATO forces were rolling to a victory. Then, the Taliban was demoralized and maximum incentive existed for more pragmatic elements to abandon the Taliban. Doing so now--and in public fashion--when U.S./NATO forces have suffered reverses and are under pressure may well be perceived by the Taliban as a sort of public confession of weakness. If so, the tactic could prove largely ineffective, as there is little incentive for those who believe they are making gains to change sides. Instead, they view such appeals as hollow. If the Taliban interprets the new tactic as evidence of U.S./NATO impotence, the new tactic could actually further embolden the Taliban in its campaign, leading to more numerous attacks on U.S./NATO forces and Afghan government installations.

IMO, this long-overdue effort to reach out to more pragmatic elements within the Taliban should have been implemented on a trial basis to test its effectiveness. At the same time, it should have been done with complete anonymity given the inopportune time it was being tested.

With the Taliban seeing the U.S./NATO lurch from tactic to tactic and from strategy to strategy, the Taliban will likely remain largely unresponsive to the new tactic. Instead, their behavior will be guided strictly by on-the-ground developments, not tactical or strategic announcements. It is those on-the-ground developments that a new Aghanstan strategy will need to visibly and decisively shift in the favor of the U.S./NATO.
 
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The United States military can win this fight and if the politicians keep their noses out of it, they will win this fight.
 
The United States military can win this fight and if the politicians keep their noses out of it, they will win this fight.

I tend to agree with this point of view.... nation building might work where you have some form of nation to start working with. In Afghanistan’s case, there has never been a nation to speak of.... they have no concept of working together for the greater good, no concept of a long view.

I'm afraid that to win this war we would have to "kill them all and let God sort them out", then occupy the country for 50 years until a new generation came of age in the modern world.
 
The United States military can win this fight and if the politicians keep their noses out of it, they will win this fight.

And how long should the US occupy Afghanistan to secure that victory?
 
It's hardly a new tactic. Buying off the enemy is still being used in Iraq.
 
I am not so sure that there is a military "solution" to the Afghanistan problems. The possibility that the military seems to be aiming for is to weaken the Taliban and its allies sufficiently that the other tribes can stand up to them or bully them around for a change.

Once you take for granted that we will not stay in Afghanistan for a period long enough to change their entire culture then you start looking for what we can do in an appropriate time frame. We pushed the Taliban out of the top dog spot in Afghanistan and chased them back into their base in the borderlands. This was pretty much the holding action that was maintained during the Iraq occupation. Once Iraq was calmed down with the surge, we then went back to pay some attention to Afghanistan. Unfortunately this gave the Taliban enough time to recover some of their strength and prestige.

So now we have to take them down a notch again. A 'surge' in Afghanistan force levels could enable us to hurt the Taliban again and possibly take them out of the equation for another five or six years. If this happens, we will probably declare 'victory' and pull most of our troops out. When the Taliban comes back later, we can always point to the Pakistan and Afghan governments and blame them for not keeping them down.

This will not be an easy task for our troops. I think they can do it, if they are allowed to, but I don't know if they will be or not. It is still pretty much in the air. Until the commander-in-chief decides what he wishes done, the troops are still in a holding pattern with no direction and not knowing whether they should be defensive or aggressive at this point. Hopefully things will clear up in a few days with the President's address on the situation.
 
The United States military can win this fight and if the politicians keep their noses out of it, they will win this fight.

Like you, I hope that Washington does not get involved in day-to-day military tactics. Washington should not dictate targets or military methods, though there is some risk that a combination of stalemate and failure to reduce civilian casualties might lead to such an outcome down the road.

However, when it comes to strategy, Washington should ask the difficult questions that need to be asked including:

1) Why did the earlier strategies fail?
2) Why were early forecasts so far off the mark?
3) Why did the earlier strategies not consider the rise of situations that confronted the British and Soviets in Afghanistan?
4) How would disproportionate reliance on the Karzai government in a country based on local/dispersed power be better than building a bottom-up strategy based around local tribal leaders?
5) What contingencies are considered in the proposed strategy?
6) Why should Washington have confidence that the proposed strategy has a high probability of success given the experience with the past strategies, including the earlier troop surge?
7) Can the military planners articulate the broader geopolitical implications of the conflict in Afghanistan?

To be sure, some of those questions, particularly the last one, would cause the military leaders to bristle. But to be blunt, they now bear the burden of demonstrating that they understand the military requirements in Afghanistan and can offer a viable strategy necessary to meet U.S. objectives. The failures to date to build a stable and secure Afghanistan require nothing less than their addressing difficult questions.

Too much is at stake geopolitically for the U.S. to suffer a stalemate or worse in Afghanistan. In the wake of how things have evolved, it is facts and outcomes alone, not the personal sensitivies of the military leaders, that matter.

If the strategy that will soon be unveiled does not materially improve conditions in Afghanistan over the next 1-2 years, domestic support for the conflict will erode. Once that happens, Congressional support to sustain the conflict will also erode and pressure for dramatic decisions will grow as the 2012 elections approach (2010 will still be within a grace period so to speak). Without sufficient domestic support, the objectives will likely shift from the creation of a more stable Afghanistan to loss minimization. In that context, U.S. geopolitical interests will have been damaged.

In the meantime, what is happening in Afghanistan matters deeply for U.S. interests. North Korea and Iran are watching developments closely in Afghanistan. Neither of those hostile regimes is impressed with U.S. power. Both increasingly calculate that the U.S. does not possess the credible means to roll back their nuclear programs. Not surprisingly, they have retained an intransigent policy course.
 
The United States military can win this fight and if the politicians keep their noses out of it, they will win this fight.

Except if pure military operations worked, then Afghanistan would still be under British control. The only time pure military operations have worked (and this is the 5th time I've told you) is when you kill every last man, woman and child. Pure military did not win in Iraq, so why do you think that only the military will work in Afghanistan?

And I am STILL waiting for SOMEONE to tell me what Afghanistan can develop its economy around to provide opportunities for its people.

All you are doing is harping more military without understanding the most basic concepts of successful COIN operations in history.
 
Except if pure military operations worked, then Afghanistan would still be under British control. The only time pure military operations have worked (and this is the 5th time I've told you) is when you kill every last man, woman and child. Pure military did not win in Iraq, so why do you think that only the military will work in Afghanistan?

And I am STILL waiting for SOMEONE to tell me what Afghanistan can develop its economy around to provide opportunities for its people.

All you are doing is harping more military without understanding the most basic concepts of successful COIN operations in history.

The only plausible economic option for Afghanistan is a farm based economy. We could try to turn Afghanistan into a giant Iowa....
 
I tend to agree with this point of view.... nation building might work where you have some form of nation to start working with. In Afghanistan’s case, there has never been a nation to speak of.... they have no concept of working together for the greater good, no concept of a long view.

I agree with this except there could be a more optimistic outlook. The Native Americans held a very similar problem whenever they were faced with the Europeans. When faced with a common problem smaller ethnicities will group together. it appears to be the hope of the United States to gather a coalition of anti-Taliban tribes.

Nation building, however, is not something we can give to the Afghani people, unless we are willing to be their adversaries.
I'm afraid that to win this war we would have to "kill them all and let God sort them out", then occupy the country for 50 years until a new generation came of age in the modern world.
It's true. I am still not understanding what fighting in Afghanistan's end goal is. There's very little evidence that Bin Laden is even in Waziristan! We are witnessing Al Qai'da attacks, even with the Military kicking A.Q. out of Afghanistan.

Like you, I hope that Washington does not get involved in day-to-day military tactics. Washington should not dictate targets or military methods, though there is some risk that a combination of stalemate and failure to reduce civilian casualties might lead to such an outcome down the road.
I think the question is... where exactly should the civilian sector interplay with the military sector. The Military is not responsible for the will of the people, as that is what Congress is (supposedly) for.

However, when it comes to strategy, Washington should ask the difficult questions that need to be asked including:

1) Why did the earlier strategies fail?
because Soldiers were being killed by the 100s per month in Iraq. It was not a priority for the Bush administration to win in Afghanistan. The biggest legacy of the Bush administration is the absolute military incompetence. If it weren't for David Paetreus we would still be at the 100/ month mark.
2) Why were early forecasts so far off the mark?
Which forecasts? The only forecast was that American military would displace the Taliban regime and it did. There was no further forecast. Afghanistan was more or less put on the back burner.
3) Why did the earlier strategies not consider the rise of situations that confronted the British and Soviets in Afghanistan?
Absolute incompetence. It's disgusting how unprepared we are, as a nation, to fight the Tribesmen in Afghanistan.
4) How would disproportionate reliance on the Karzai government in a country based on local/dispersed power be better than building a bottom-up strategy based around local tribal leaders?
It's absolutely not. But the Bush Administration made the effort to immediately replace the "oppressive Taliban" with a Democratic regime. It almost sickens me how one could conceive that such a strategy would work. Bush and his Populist bull**** of "Democracy for everyone!". God, like democracy can be built when there is no majority.
5) What contingencies are considered in the proposed strategy?
No Clue.
6) Why should Washington have confidence that the proposed strategy has a high probability of success given the experience with the past strategies, including the earlier troop surge?
Because, according to many Generals, what works in Iraq is bound to work in Afghanistan. This is not counter-insurgency it's much tougher than that.

We are not taking into consideration the amount of support that the ISI gives to the Taliban leadership; even ranking members in the Pakistan military are Pro-Taliban!

The Tribesmen aren't stupid. They know that by accepting the Karzi Regime (or even Pakistan or NATO) and accepting their help (codename: Infrastructure) they are signing their autonomy, their heritage, and their identity away.
7) Can the military planners articulate the broader geopolitical implications of the conflict in Afghanistan?

It's not the military's job to articulate. It's the military's job to eradicate.
 
To be sure, some of those questions, particularly the last one, would cause the military leaders to bristle. But to be blunt, they now bear the burden of demonstrating that they understand the military requirements in Afghanistan and can offer a viable strategy necessary to meet U.S. objectives. The failures to date to build a stable and secure Afghanistan require nothing less than their addressing difficult questions.
I think it is about time we review why we are in Afghanistan. Why are troops are under fire, and why tax payer money is being drained at a rate of $1 million per soldier.

Too much is at stake geopolitically for the U.S. to suffer a stalemate or worse in Afghanistan. In the wake of how things have evolved, it is facts and outcomes alone, not the personal sensitivies of the military leaders, that matter.

What is at stake?
In the meantime, what is happening in Afghanistan matters deeply for U.S. interests. North Korea and Iran are watching developments closely in Afghanistan. Neither of those hostile regimes is impressed with U.S. power. Both increasingly calculate that the U.S. does not possess the credible means to roll back their nuclear programs. Not surprisingly, they have retained an intransigent policy course.

I don't think N.K. or Iran ever feared the United States. The credibility we had with most of the world does not exist with Iran and N.K..

The United States military can win this fight and if the politicians keep their noses out of it, they will win this fight.
I disagree. The military is mighty, but it's not unstoppable. There is a breaking point, and we are beginning to inch our way closer. As the suicide rates continue to climb, we're going to start questioning how humane it is to put our soldiers in a place that carved the British military might (late 19th century) through scaring them and causing trauma by consistent attacks with outrageous efficiency.

What's worse. We are on the defensive and we have not faced the cream of the crop in full-force.

What worries me is what seems to have amounted to a dangerous lack of coherent strategy from the onset, limited leadership on the ground, grossly deficient understanding of the historic experience in Afghanistan, and a lack of attention to the role Afghanistan's local tribes play. Each of those factors has contributed to the current situation. Whether the forthcoming strategic planning effort by the President will really get to the heart of those issues remains to be seen. If it is merely a more robust counterinsurgency strategy, it probably will not accomplish too much in Afghanistan. However, it could further drain public and Congressional support for a conflict that is critically important for the United States.

It's not counter-insurgency. It is a people's fight for autonomy. Call their rule barbaric, call their Sharia law evil, call their tactics Machiavellian, but it's a fight for their heritage and identity.

With the Taliban seeing the U.S./NATO lurch from tactic to tactic and from strategy to strategy, the Taliban will likely remain largely unresponsive to the new tactic. Instead, their behavior will be guided strictly by on-the-ground developments, not tactical or strategic announcements. It is those on-the-ground developments that a new Aghanstan strategy will need to visibly and decisively shift in the favor of the U.S./NATO.

Yeah. I find the interim period whenever the Taliban was making foreign policy (going from tribal politics in Peshawar to global politics in Kabul) highly interesting. With the Taliban, there really is no larger period. The was very little organization their policy making, and Sharia Law appears to be applied because of their fear that the Afghanis would see their lack of organization.

I mean, the Taliban banned kite-flying and tennis! It's nothing more the Will to Power, or legitimacy through iron-fists.

I think the Taliban is beginning to lose faith in A.Q., as it brought the foreigners into their lands. It would be as likely the Taliban (without A.Q.) to strike the United States, as a Sudanese paramilitary force-- Not much to deal with logistics, but more to deal with "who cares?"

Lets not forget that A.Q. even matters because it is the Rich man's (Bin Laden & Middle East contributors) support of the poor man (suicide bombers, Mujhadeen)
 
And that is why we must win, what ever that looks like.


j-mac

"scorched earth"

I truly hope not but I fear that is what it will take

If you haven't won in eight years I would suggest it is time to change the base on which you are playing - this looks like it might just be a way out. I read the times article - it is about giving the moderates a way OUT of the Taliban - it is about breaking up the base of the Taliban so that you marginalise the extremists more and more

Sounds like it might be a worthwhile strategy
 
And how long should the US occupy Afghanistan to secure that victory?

If the fighting is over, who cares? We don't see you crying about the troops that occupy South Korea.
 
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