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Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

GySgt said:
The military is continually improving. It does not need a bunch of civilians reminding our enemy of our mistakes 12 months later so as to make our job that much harder. It does not need the 100th same photo splashed across international news. And it certainly doesn't need people rejoicing and defending the media for just "doing their jobs." I see that you choose to ignore the responsible journalism of our grandfathers when defending the depravity that reports today. I guess as long as that cash cow isn't squeezed dry thay are honorouble journalists no matter how many more American get to die for the constant reminders.

"Sitting back and bitching?" I still serve. I hardly sit back. Perhaps it's the media that needs to be held accountable for a change. Perhaps it's the average American who needs to check his position and shake himself up a bit.....or do the job for himself to appreciate the crap the regular troop has to endure from his own people. Maybe instead of relying on the media to deliver them what our troops go through while they demand impractical conclusions they could enlist and experience for themselves. And maybe those who served briefly in the past would support troops better by not cheering for those who make things harder than they have to.

I'll choose the practical reality every time.



Covered like anything else? You do realize that two weeks before Abu-Ghraib broke, two soldiers were taken prisoner and had their heads cut off. You do realize that this story took center stage for the world, thanks to our own American media, for the better part of a year and completely dismissed those two soldiers as soon as the media swarm began? Don't pretend that you stand for some noble sense of media coverage as if the military is asking for a hand out. Covering the actions of our troops is hardly all they do. They seek imjperfection and ride it until enough troops are dead over it and until the last penny can be squeezed.

By the way, let's not pretend that Abu-Graib wasn't about a bunch of civilians playing soldier. And let's not pretend that 2 years after the event every Muslim in the region had to be reminded.

Just think...if we just drop a couple atomic bombs in the Middle East we could be called "great" like our grandfathers.
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Damn, that is quite a statement, true, but you just never hear that kind of honesty today!:shock:
 
Jackboot said:
Damn, that is quite a statement, true, but you just never hear that kind of honesty today!:shock:
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That's because people are conditioned to see things a certain way. Dresden bombing? Hiroshima and Nagasaki? All efforts performed by heroes who fought for their country and brought home victory. This is proof that victory is always forgiven. Funny how a black eye or a fat lip or a frat party Abu-Graib scandal today is supposed to drag us through the mud as humanities ultimate evil. I'm sure our the Greatest Generation treated the Japanese prioners (who tortured and beheaded their prisoners of war) and German prisoners (who starved and torched their prisoners of war) with the utmost respect and gentleness. You know...because they were the "Greatest."

We have become a civilization who enjoys watching the violence from the seats of the coloseum. The "thumbs up" or the "thumbs down" come in the form of the disgruntled, bittered, and ignorant masses who cling to what the world may think of them. We ignore the absolute depravity of foreign troops while allowing the foreign citizens of those troops to chastise ours for minor mistakes and criticizing alongside them.. We seek to destroy careers over mistakes or even less than perfect results in war for the sake of an image people on the outside really don’t care about either way,… yet criticize.

And before Redress drops in and thinks she has thought this through and criticizes me…

We are a civilization that loves our cinema. We like our Saving Private Ryans which show our past troop’s bravery and honor. We love our Band of Brothers and our Dirty Dozens that show courage and valor to bring victory. Even the comical and ridiculous Inglorious Bastards bring the cheers for our Greatest Generation. We love our John Waynes and Audey Murphys. But what does the troop get today? Are there any films that don’t show a military mind on the verge of madness? Or a military blunder? Any military movies about Vietnam forward that focus on the good old American drive to succeed in war for the audience to cheer? Or are they all focused on the individual mental “torture” of the troop for having to be victims of our own government’s tyranny? Poor Hawkeye (M.A.S.H.)… Poor Rambo. Gunny Highway (Heartbreak Ridge) was a drunk who couldn’t perform in civilian life. Even the Gulf War got a Hollywood shot of Bull**** with Jarhead for the masses to take pity on. And Iraq? Wait and see how Hollywood depicts the troop experience and thereby prescribing the American mindset. Or are we already seeing this?

Hollywood has found that people seem more interested in the conspiracy or the fragile, weak, and rebellious mind of the military man fighting (against his will often enough) for his country. Politicians strip victory away from our military (Fallujah I) and offer success to another enemy (Iran). The media ignores the decapitation of servicemen and choose to earn their dimes on the mistakes of the military instead to a never ending result. But after all of this we are supposed to accept that the media is only doing their jobs (which means they weren’t during WWII) and that our politicians are merely trying to do their best (Funny how the military guy’s best better be perfect or it’s his job while the politician’s failed best gets a pat on the back for trying).

If the Greatest Generation gets the benefit of every single doubt and absolute forgiveness for every single thing that occurred, then surely today’s troop, who is restricted to unimaginable rules and laws and subjected to the utmost scrutiny of every single action should be given a break here and there.


Our enemy today weas no uniform and his greatest ally is the American idiot who can't understand the world he lives in. The more I serve the less I feel this country deserves its military. And it's not because of his difference of opinion or his sense of persepective as some would default to. It's because he refuses to learn beyond what will make his fantasies of the world true no matter what is sacrificed.

Isolationalism served us best.
 
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GySgt said:
That's because people are conditioned to see things a certain way. Dresden bombing? Hiroshima and Nagasaki? All efforts performed by heroes who fought for their country and brought home victory. This is proof that victory is always forgiven. Funny how a black eye or a fat lip or a frat party Abu-Graib scandal today is supposed to drag us through the mud as humanities ultimate evil. I'm sure our the Greatest Generation treated the Japanese prioners (who tortured and beheaded their prisoners of war) and German prisoners (who starved and torched their prisoners of war) with the utmost respect and gentleness. You know...because they were the "Greatest."

We have become a civilization who enjoys watching the violence from the seats of the coloseum. The "thumbs up" or the "thumbs down" come in the form of the disgruntled, bittered, and ignorant masses who cling to what the world may think of them. We ignore the absolute depravity of foreign troops while allowing the foreign citizens of those troops to chastise ours for minor mistakes and criticizing alongside them.. We seek to destroy careers over mistakes or even less than perfect results in war for the sake of an image people on the outside really don’t care about either way,… yet criticize.

And before Redress drops in and thinks she has thought this through and criticizes me…

We are a civilization that loves our cinema. We like our Saving Private Ryans which show our past troop’s bravery and honor. We love our Band of Brothers and our Dirty Dozens that show courage and valor to bring victory. Even the comical and ridiculous Inglorious Bastards bring the cheers for our Greatest Generation. We love our John Waynes and Audey Murphys. But what does the troop get today? Are there any films that don’t show a military mind on the verge of madness? Or a military blunder? Any military movies about Vietnam forward that focus on the good old American drive to succeed in war for the audience to cheer? Or are they all focused on the individual mental “torture” of the troop for having to be victims of our own government’s tyranny? Poor Hawkeye (M.A.S.H.)… Poor Rambo. Gunny Highway (Heartbreak Ridge) was a drunk who couldn’t perform in civilian life. Even the Gulf War got a Hollywood shot of Bull**** with Jarhead for the masses to take pity on. And Iraq? Wait and see how Hollywood depicts the troop experience and thereby prescribing the American mindset. Or are we already seeing this?

Hollywood has found that people seem more interested in the conspiracy or the fragile, weak, and rebellious mind of the military man fighting (against his will often enough) for his country. Politicians strip victory away from our military (Fallujah I) and offer success to another enemy (Iran). The media ignores the decapitation of servicemen and choose to earn their dimes on the mistakes of the military instead to a never ending result. But after all of this we are supposed to accept that the media is only doing their jobs (which means they weren’t during WWII) and that our politicians are merely trying to do their best (Funny how the military guy’s best better be perfect or it’s his job while the politician’s failed best gets a pat on the back for trying).

If the Greatest Generation gets the benefit of every single doubt and absolute forgiveness for every single thing that occurred, then surely today’s troop, who is restricted to unimaginable rules and laws and subjected to the utmost scrutiny of every single action should be given a break here and there.


Our enemy today weas no uniform and his greatest ally is the American idiot who can't understand the world he lives in. The more I serve the less I feel this country deserves its military. And it's not because of his difference of opinion or his sense of persepective as some would default to. It's because he refuses to learn beyond what will make his fantasies of the world true no matter what is sacrificed.

Isolationalism served us best.
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Sounds like you going on twenty eh gunny? ;)
 
GySgt said:
That's because people are conditioned to see things a certain way. Dresden bombing? Hiroshima and Nagasaki? All efforts performed by heroes who fought for their country and brought home victory. This is proof that victory is always forgiven. Funny how a black eye or a fat lip or a frat party Abu-Graib scandal today is supposed to drag us through the mud as humanities ultimate evil. I'm sure our the Greatest Generation treated the Japanese prioners (who tortured and beheaded their prisoners of war) and German prisoners (who starved and torched their prisoners of war) with the utmost respect and gentleness. You know...because they were the "Greatest."

We have become a civilization who enjoys watching the violence from the seats of the coloseum. The "thumbs up" or the "thumbs down" come in the form of the disgruntled, bittered, and ignorant masses who cling to what the world may think of them. We ignore the absolute depravity of foreign troops while allowing the foreign citizens of those troops to chastise ours for minor mistakes and criticizing alongside them.. We seek to destroy careers over mistakes or even less than perfect results in war for the sake of an image people on the outside really don’t care about either way,… yet criticize.

And before Redress drops in and thinks she has thought this through and criticizes me…

We are a civilization that loves our cinema. We like our Saving Private Ryans which show our past troop’s bravery and honor. We love our Band of Brothers and our Dirty Dozens that show courage and valor to bring victory. Even the comical and ridiculous Inglorious Bastards bring the cheers for our Greatest Generation. We love our John Waynes and Audey Murphys. But what does the troop get today? Are there any films that don’t show a military mind on the verge of madness? Or a military blunder? Any military movies about Vietnam forward that focus on the good old American drive to succeed in war for the audience to cheer? Or are they all focused on the individual mental “torture” of the troop for having to be victims of our own government’s tyranny? Poor Hawkeye (M.A.S.H.)… Poor Rambo. Gunny Highway (Heartbreak Ridge) was a drunk who couldn’t perform in civilian life. Even the Gulf War got a Hollywood shot of Bull**** with Jarhead for the masses to take pity on. And Iraq? Wait and see how Hollywood depicts the troop experience and thereby prescribing the American mindset. Or are we already seeing this?

Hollywood has found that people seem more interested in the conspiracy or the fragile, weak, and rebellious mind of the military man fighting (against his will often enough) for his country. Politicians strip victory away from our military (Fallujah I) and offer success to another enemy (Iran). The media ignores the decapitation of servicemen and choose to earn their dimes on the mistakes of the military instead to a never ending result. But after all of this we are supposed to accept that the media is only doing their jobs (which means they weren’t during WWII) and that our politicians are merely trying to do their best (Funny how the military guy’s best better be perfect or it’s his job while the politician’s failed best gets a pat on the back for trying).

If the Greatest Generation gets the benefit of every single doubt and absolute forgiveness for every single thing that occurred, then surely today’s troop, who is restricted to unimaginable rules and laws and subjected to the utmost scrutiny of every single action should be given a break here and there.

Our enemy today weas no uniform and his greatest ally is the American idiot who can't understand the world he lives in. The more I serve the less I feel this country deserves its military. And it's not because of his difference of opinion or his sense of persepective as some would default to. It's because he refuses to learn beyond what will make his fantasies of the world true no matter what is sacrificed.

Isolationalism served us best.
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So what do you think we should do when the military does something like Abu Gharib? Just give them a free pass? Just ignore it? Abu Gharib hurt us more than any other single event in Iraq, because it was such a big loss in the battle for hearts and minds. That is what matters in modern warfare. You can kill insurgents night and day, but it doesn't change the fact that unless the people are no longer willing to fight you, you can not win. And stupid **** like Abu Gharib makes sure that they continue to hate us more- especially the young males so concerned with honor who make up the the core of any guerrilla army.

And what do you think would happen if our media didn't publicize Abu Gharib? The media in the middle east would still have ran with it, and it still would have been all over the websites the crazies use. Our media mostly caters to us, remember? People in the middle east have Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabia. On the other hand, if someone joining up watches that and gets the message that any BS like Abu Gharib gets them in deep deep ****, then maybe they'll keep their noses clean and not piss off the people we're trying to help.

And then the whiny "well they do bad stuff!" So what? We're better than they are. We should demand each and every soldier behaves like a perfect paragon of decency. That we're fighting barbarians is no reason to sink down to their level. End of story.
 
the makeout hobo said:
So what do you think we should do when the military does something like Abu Gharib? Just give them a free pass? Just ignore it?
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Who said anything about ignoring it? Seriously? The decapitation of two U.S servicemen deserve a couple weeks but the frat party antics of a few nasty National Guardsmen at Abu-Graib deserve over a year? Do you really think that the international community gives a damn about those two soldiers? They only care about what may make America look bad. You would think we would but we didn't either. Our own media stopped at nothing to ensure that our enemy remembered this stupid event for over a year at the expense of real American "soldiers" that had nothing to do with National Guard unprofessionalism. But no American remembered those decapited soldiers did they?

the makeout hobo said:
Abu Gharib hurt us more than any other single event in Iraq, because it was such a big loss in the battle for hearts and minds.
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And our media made sure that they wouldn't forget it for a looooong time didn't they? And by the way...."Hearts and Minds" is a term used in a general sense in the military anymore. It has been learned over the past few years that there is only a certain degree of this that matters in one society to the next. What matters more in this Muslim civilization is how one is perceived to this or that tribe/clan.


the makeout hobo said:
That is what matters in modern warfare.
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Please, tell me all about today's warfare.


the makeout hobo said:
Our media mostly caters to us, remember?
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Well, don't think for a moment that I think the American people aren't getting exactly what they want from their media. Perhaps public Court Martials are next. That would be cool to watch. Maybe ensuring that our enemies have a good cable connection will be a pre-requisite before any NJP.

the makeout hobo said:
And then the whiny "well they do bad stuff!" So what? We're better than they are. We should demand each and every soldier behaves like a perfect paragon of decency. That we're fighting barbarians is no reason to sink down to their level. End of story.
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You tell 'em. We'll never stoop to dropping civilian airliners on their cities. Or even think about dropping atomic bombs on civilian cities. End of story indeed. Figure out what nation you belong to before you sprout off your illusions. **** your demands. Pick up a rifle and share the burden of being perfect.
 
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GySgt said:
Who said anything about ignoring it? Seriously? The decapitation of two U.S servicemen deserve a couple weeks but the frat party antics of a few nasty National Guardsmen at Abu-Graib deserve over a year? Do you really think that the international community gives a damn about those two soldiers? They only care about what may make America look bad. You would think we would but we didn't either. Our own media stopped at nothing to ensure that our enemy remembered this stupid event for over a year at the expense of real American "soldiers" that had nothing to do with National Guard unprofessionalism. But no American remembered those decapited soldiers did they?
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Sure they remembered them. But it was fairly cut and dried as compared to Abu Gharib, which had a few more turns and twists. And do you really think the taliban sits around watching CNN? I think not. It's more or less domestic consumption. And just how much coverage do you think Abu Gharib, or frat pranks as you call them (like having electrodes on sensitive parts) should have been covered for? I do love also how you take parts of my post and whine about them but ignore other parts where I'm actually trying to explain my reasoning.:roll:

And our media made sure that they wouldn't forget it for a looooong time didn't they? And by the way...."Hearts and Minds" is a term used in a general sense in the military anymore. It has been learned over the past few years that there is only a certain degree of this that matters in one society to the next. What matters more in this Muslim civilization is how one is perceived to this or that tribe/clan.
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So all you're doing is pushing hearts/minds up to the clan level. Very well. But the point is that you don't win a guerrilla war without winning the population over or killing them, as I said and you ignored.


Please, tell me all about today's warfare.
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Please, try to be civil. I know it is so hard to you.


Well, don't think for a moment that I think the American people aren't getting exactly what they want from their media. Perhaps public Court Martials are next. That would be cool to watch. Maybe ensuring that our enemies have a good cable connection will be a pre-requisite before any NJP.
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Someone forget their midol? A snarky comment isn't exactly something I can respond to.

You tell 'em. We'll never stoop to dropping civilian airliners on their cities. Or even think about dropping atomic bombs on civilian cities. End of story indeed. Figure out what nation you belong to before you sprout off your illusions. **** your demands. Pick up a rifle and share the burden of being perfect.
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Ah, tu quoque attacks instead of addressing actual arguments. Care to actually discuss things instead of going off on hissy fits?
 
the makeout hobo said:
Sure they remembered them.
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The hell they did.

the makeout hobo said:
And do you really think the taliban sits around watching CNN?
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Ummm...yes. It is a fact that our enemy gathers intel from our media. Do you honesty think that intel gathering is only a western thing? Those Internet blurbs from Al-Queda to the American people don't give it a way about how saavy they are to today's technology?

And who cares about the damn Tali-Ban anyway? Our enemy today comes from all over the region to form the next generation of "Tali-Ban" and have gathered all they need from international television (CNN/FOX/BBC/Al-Jazeera/etc) about how depraved, torturous, and genocidal their American military enemy is.


the makeout hobo said:
So all you're doing is pushing hearts/minds up to the clan level. Very well. But the point is that you don't win a guerrilla war without winning the population over or killing them, as I said and you ignored.
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Because there was no point in giving you a pat on the back for what is common sense in my world. But "Hearts and Minds" is used too often by civilians as the end all be all solution to ultimate victory. This is wrong. This is historically inaccurate and we have conditioned ourselves to believe the contrary because it fits with our dellusional idea of our heightened morality and superiority over others.

the makeout hobo said:
Ah, tu quoque attacks instead of addressing actual arguments. Care to actually discuss things instead of going off on hissy fits?
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Well, it's pretty simple actually. You are free to enlist and attempt to be perfect in front of the media hounds or you can choose to stand far back and criticize those who have to hope that the cameras are looking somewhere else when they do their job. We are not local policemen though expected to be so. Thanks to the media and the civilian's attitude about warfare, "combat" has lost its meaning.
 
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Moderator's Warning:
This is a good thread. Let's all keep it civil plz.
 
GySgt said:
The hell they did.

Thanks to the media and the civilian's attitude about warfare, "combat" has lost its meaning.
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Don't blame this on all civilians. This is a liberal jihad to categorize all terrorists as criminals so they don't have to deal with the reality of Islamic Terrorism.

Liberals who profess these trials will not convince anyone of committing terrorism utilize the fatal flaw that everyone in the world shares our values.

They want to deny the millions of people in the world who sympathize with the attacks and will listen to these Islamic terrorists and believe their lies.
 
apdst said:
They shouldn't have felt the need to lie about it.

But, what with soldiers being charged with war crimes, over the simplest silly ****, of course they would be afraid to be totally honest about what happened.
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You're simply excusing their lie with this. They shouldn't have lied regardless. There is no shame in the way they did on their mission. We would have never heard of this if they had simply told the truth.

Slap them on the hands for lying, congratulate them for a job well done, and give them a new target package.
 
Lerxst said:
You're simply excusing their lie with this. They shouldn't have lied regardless. There is no shame in the way they did on their mission. We would have never heard of this if they had simply told the truth.

Slap them on the hands for lying, congratulate them for a job well done, and give them a new target package.
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I think this is what would have happened if they had not pushed it to full court marshal. I suspect that for NJP it would have been like 1/2 month pay X 2 and 60 days extra duty. it hurts, but only for a little while. Going to court marshal, it is almost certainly going to be worse for them.
 
Redress said:
I think this is what would have happened if they had not pushed it to full court marshal. I suspect that for NJP it would have been like 1/2 month pay X 2 and 60 days extra duty. it hurts, but only for a little while. Going to court marshal, it is almost certainly going to be worse for them.
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I agree. I'm simply astounded that this is going as far as it is. We need those guys out there taking the fight to the enemy with the full confidence that their commanders have their back. Troops make mistakes, you correct the behavior appropriately and you make them better troops. This sounds like a sledge hammer to a fly.
 
Lerxst said:
I agree. I'm simply astounded that this is going as far as it is. We need those guys out there taking the fight to the enemy with the full confidence that their commanders have their back. Troops make mistakes, you correct the behavior appropriately and you make them better troops. This sounds like a sledge hammer to a fly.
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Part of the problem is that the soldiers requested the court marshal. This is part of why I say that things don't add up right with the details known, and there is something going on we don't know about.
 
the makeout hobo said:
So what do you think we should do when the military does something like Abu Gharib? Just give them a free pass? Just ignore it? Abu Gharib hurt us more than any other single event in Iraq, because it was such a big loss in the battle for hearts and minds. That is what matters in modern warfare. You can kill insurgents night and day, but it doesn't change the fact that unless the people are no longer willing to fight you, you can not win. And stupid **** like Abu Gharib makes sure that they continue to hate us more- especially the young males so concerned with honor who make up the the core of any guerrilla army.
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Abu Grhaib hurt us, because the lamestream Libbo media went nuts with the story.
 
Lerxst said:
You're simply excusing their lie with this. They shouldn't have lied regardless. There is no shame in the way they did on their mission. We would have never heard of this if they had simply told the truth.

Slap them on the hands for lying, congratulate them for a job well done, and give them a new target package.
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They shouldn't have to be afraid of being charged with a war crime for busting a prisoner in the mouth.

Look at the BS charges that soldiers have been slapped with since we went to war with the Islamofacists. Why wouldn't they lie about roughing the guy up?

We're not even sure the guy got roughed up. He may have struggled upon capture and sustained those injuries, making them accidental. So, these men may not even be lieing, to begin with. BUT, some folks on the other side of the political fence aren't going to give these soldiers the benefit of the doubt and we all know that.
 
apdst said:
They shouldn't have to be afraid of being charged with a war crime for busting a prisoner in the mouth.

Look at the BS charges that soldiers have been slapped with since we went to war with the Islamofacists. Why wouldn't they lie about roughing the guy up?

We're not even sure the guy got roughed up. He may have struggled upon capture and sustained those injuries, making them accidental. So, these men may not even be lieing, to begin with. BUT, some folks on the other side of the political fence aren't going to give these soldiers the benefit of the doubt and we all know that.
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I think this may be why the troops requested the court martial possibly. They may know that information will come out that will exonerate them of any and all charges. The benefit is that it will also cast a bad light on their accusers.

I hope this is the case.
 
Redress said:
I think this is what would have happened if they had not pushed it to full court marshal. I suspect that for NJP it would have been like 1/2 month pay X 2 and 60 days extra duty. it hurts, but only for a little while. Going to court marshal, it is almost certainly going to be worse for them.
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In most cases an NJP is a career ender. "Soldiers" with black marks on their records often get passed up for promotion. In the Marine Corps, two "Ps" is followed by administrative discharge or forced retirement.
 
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GySgt said:
In most cases an NJP is a career ender.
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Then things have changed since I was in, which is certainly possible. 60/60 was used alot to catch peoples attentions when command felt they had a future they where trying to piss away, and I can think of at least once person for whom that worked really well.
 
Redress said:
Then things have changed since I was in, which is certainly possible. 60/60 was used alot to catch peoples attentions when command felt they had a future they where trying to piss away, and I can think of at least once person for whom that worked really well.
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Depends on the branch.

During the early 90's the Republicans and the Democrats agreed that the end of the Cold War meant an end to our wars. They initiated the draw down and those with black marks were the first to go.

In the Marine Corps, black marks are not as forgiving as in other branches. There was a time even the Marine Corps looked the other way if the Marine was a keeper. But since Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama, one NJP will often see you to 1stCIVDIV when it comes to re-enlist.
 
GySgt said:
Depends on the branch.

During the early 90's the Republicans and the Democrats agreed that the end of the Cold War meant an end to our wars. They initiated the draw down and those with black marks were the first to go.

In the Marine Corps, black marks are not as forgiving as in other branches. There was a time even the Marine Corps looked the other way if the Marine was a keeper. But since Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama, one NJP will often see you to 1stCIVDIV when it comes to re-enlist.
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I served mostly during Bush the elder. Joined during Reagan, through Bush, and into Clinton. What I saw was outside of drugs and real serious stuff, the first NJP was a strong warning, the second and it was an OTH. My comments where based on that model, which may very well be obsolete.
 
GySgt said:
In most cases an NJP is a career ender. "Soldiers" with black marks on their records often get passed up for promotion. In the Marine Corps, two "Ps" is followed by administrative discharge or forced retirement.
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Particularly with greater rank. If you are a PFC they can't do much to you with NJP, and you can recover and go onto a career. If you are a Sgt or higher, with plans to re-enlist you will likely have to kiss that idea goodbye under NJP. I never saw an NJP at my unit where people didn't lose rank.
 
the makeout hobo said:
And they can deal with the consequences of any rules they break, but no rules should ever trump the laws of their land, which in this case apparently prohibit striking terrorists.



You are a sick bastard if you think these people deserve to die for this.
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Did I use the phrase "deserve to die"?

No, I did not.

I said they should be exposed to combat to see how the real men they're stabbing in the back live every damn day they're over there.

With a little luck, they'll get killed, but that's up to the terrorists they coddle and the real men they're standing in front of, then.
 
the makeout hobo said:
What does the legal systems that the soldiers are bound by say on the matter? Informal codes of honor are not legal systems.



I'm not siding with the terrorists, I believe that the rules should be fairly applied no matter what. You don't like it, you change the rules. I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept for you to grasp.
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You're siding with the terrorists.

Not that it's anything unusuall. Your Messiah is giving them the opportunity to have a Defense by Diatribe in New York.
 
Redress said:
If a bloody lip was all that happened, why charge any one with anything? Things like that make me think there are significant details we do not know.
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I imagine that once the complaint has been filed, it's necessary to follow procedure, otherwise the terrorist can file another complaint alleging sytematic indifference to his "rights" and thus find grounds for dismissal of charges or transfer of his case to a civillian court.

So long as the men accused of the heinous act of giving a murdering terrorist dog a dreaded "fat lip", which is apparently a mortal insult in Islam, are acquitted, everything will turn out okay.
 
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