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Irish republicans try to blow up Belfast police building

So let me get this right..

Because it is Northern Ireland, and Christians, then attempting to blow up the police or anyone is some what okay because the struggle against British oppression is a valid one.. they are after all freedom fighters..

But when it is in Iraq and Muslims and the target is US troops then people fighting oppression and occupation are terrorists when they do the same thing?

No hypocrisy here .. :roll:

If people in Northern Ireland want to live under Irish rule rather than British rule.. MOVE!.. They are both in the EU so nothing is preventing them moving to Ireland.
You're one to talk. Tell me, when Saddam Hussein was torturing his people and murdering the opposition, what was that?
 
Then there's the fact that they are just as Irish as the Irish to the south.

Most of the Unionists and loyalists would disagree with being called "Irish" as much as the Republicans would disagree with being called "British".

When you boil it down to its most basic level, anyone from the Island of Ireland can be called Irish and anyone who is born in the UK can be called British. So while there is equal truth to calling a Unionist "Irish" and a Republican "British", it doesn't really fit to say a Unionist is "just as Irish" as a person from the Republic.
 
Most of the Unionists and loyalists would disagree with being called "Irish" as much as the Republicans would disagree with being called "British".

When you boil it down to its most basic level, anyone from the Island of Ireland can be called Irish and anyone who is born in the UK can be called British. So while there is equal truth to calling a Unionist "Irish" and a Republican "British", it doesn't really fit to say a Unionist is "just as Irish" as a person from the Republic.

Okay. But they're still all Irish, regardless of what they call themselves.

My point was that Northern Ireland isn't populated entirely by Anglo-Saxons who replaced the native Irish, as was implied.
 
You're one to talk. Tell me, when Saddam Hussein was torturing his people and murdering the opposition, what was that?

So what are you saying? That the US should be invading the UK to free the minority in Northern Ireland because some of them dont agree about living under British rule but a huge majority does?

And what does Saddam's treatment of his own people have to do with Northern Ireland.. Are you saying that the Brits have mass graves, death squads and torture chambers in Northern Ireland?

Like it or not, there is no difference in an Irish terrorists planting bombs or a Palestinian terrorists planting bombs in Israel, or an AL Q terrorists planting bombs or some American right winger bombing a federal building.. they are all committing terrorist... saying one is okay but the rest is not, is pure partisan hypocritical bs.

For one, if you are to support the "freedom" of those opposed to British rule in Northern Ireland then you have to support all such "freedom movements" including those wanting to cede in the US and are willing to use violence to achieve it.. do you support that?
 
So what are you saying? That the US should be invading the UK to free the minority in Northern Ireland because some of them dont agree about living under British rule but a huge majority does?

And what does Saddam's treatment of his own people have to do with Northern Ireland.. Are you saying that the Brits have mass graves, death squads and torture chambers in Northern Ireland?

Like it or not, there is no difference in an Irish terrorists planting bombs or a Palestinian terrorists planting bombs in Israel, or an AL Q terrorists planting bombs or some American right winger bombing a federal building.. they are all committing terrorist... saying one is okay but the rest is not, is pure partisan hypocritical bs.

For one, if you are to support the "freedom" of those opposed to British rule in Northern Ireland then you have to support all such "freedom movements" including those wanting to cede in the US and are willing to use violence to achieve it.. do you support that?

Why not just give them their own country back, let them make their own way?
 
it's the fault of the invaders for staying. They should have gone back to their own island. What is in Ireland that they don't have or can't get easily enough in Britain/Scotland/Wales? Nothing. /QUOTE]

Well their homes for one thing. Again these people have lived here for longer then the United States has existed. They have a different culture from the English or the Scottish and constitute a nation with a right to national self determination. You cant just order an entire nation to up sticks and leave, its barbaric. If the Native Americans in the U.S started a bombing campaign would you demand that white Americans go back to *their continent?* Maybe we should demand that all those dam Anglo-Saxons piss off back to Saxony.

Point is, when someone tries to kick you out of their country, that you've invaded and occupied for extended periods of time, shouldn't you just leave, instead of being ridiculous and keeping 6 ****ing counties. 6 counties. wtf. >:C
 
So what are you saying? That the US should be invading the UK to free the minority in Northern Ireland because some of them dont agree about living under British rule but a huge majority does?

I think you're on to something here...except we'd invade N. Ireland and give it back to the Irish. Cause it's...ya know...theirs.
 
Point is, when someone tries to kick you out of their country, that you've invaded and occupied for extended periods of time, shouldn't you just leave, instead of being ridiculous and keeping 6 ****ing counties. 6 counties. wtf. >:C

I take it you do realise the British Army went in to stop the Catholics being annihilated? and were initially welcomed.

Paul
 
When you boil it down to its most basic level, anyone from the Island of Ireland can be called Irish and anyone who is born in the UK can be called British.

This isn't exactly being consistent...

Could you not, if you wanted to be pedantic, say that anyone from the British isles can be called British, including everyone in Ireland?
 
I take it you do realise the British Army went in to stop the Catholics being annihilated? and were initially welcomed.

Paul

Just because you're initially welcomed doesn't mean you won't wear out that welcome.
 
This isn't exactly being consistent...

Could you not, if you wanted to be pedantic, say that anyone from the British isles can be called British, including everyone in Ireland?

If the Irish want to say their Island is part of the British isles. Who are the British to say that they claim those islands. If you look through British history, they don't even deserve to have Scotland or Wales based on how they treated people on "their" islands.


Pfff...
 
If the Irish want to say their Island is part of the British isles. Who are the British to say that they claim those islands.

Who are the British to claim the British Isles? Clue's in the name ;)
 
This isn't exactly being consistent...

Could you not, if you wanted to be pedantic, say that anyone from the British isles can be called British, including everyone in Ireland?

Ireland is not the name of the country itself, it's the name of the island. Things that come from that island are called Irish.

Whereas "British" is applied to the citizens of the United Kingdom, not just things that come from the Island of Great Britain.

So, while the term "Irish" is applied pretty much exclusively to things that come from a specific Island, this is not the case with the term "British". That term applies just as much to things that do not come from Great Britain, or even the British Isles.

For example, the British Virgin Islands.

It seems as though it has more to do with government than geography, while Irish has more to do with geography.
 
Hurr Durr Who NAMED them? Oh that's right the British did.

If the Irish Republican movement has no support from the natives, and the Northern Irish support the union, then it is not your place to say what the British should or shouldnt be doing.

They are allowed to hold a referendum and seperate; as are Wales and Scotland. Whats your point?
 
Hurr Durr Who NAMED them? Oh that's right the British did.

And they were in a position to name them because?

Britain ruled Ireland for 700 years, Ireland was not a colony, it was considered part of Britain, it had MPs, it's soldiers fought for the British army. Unionists in NI don't consider themselves part of Britain because their parents emigrated from London, they've lived in Ireland for hundreds of years.

Unless you're a native american, they've got more of a history in their country than you do in yours.
 
Ireland is not the name of the country itself, it's the name of the island. Things that come from that island are called Irish.

Whereas "British" is applied to the citizens of the United Kingdom, not just things that come from the Island of Great Britain.

So, while the term "Irish" is applied pretty much exclusively to things that come from a specific Island, this is not the case with the term "British". That term applies just as much to things that do not come from Great Britain, or even the British Isles.

For example, the British Virgin Islands.

It seems as though it has more to do with government than geography, while Irish has more to do with geography.

You, in my experience, never hear a person who comes from NI call themselves Irish they always stipulate they are from the north of the island i.e. Northern Ireland... quote-"i,m from Northern Ireland"

Paul
 
It seems as though it has more to do with government than geography, while Irish has more to do with geography.

I disagree with this, I've always talked about Ireland as being part of the British Isles.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_the_British_Isles]Terminology of the British Isles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

There is an island of Ireland and an island of Great Britain, together with a binch of other smaller islands they make up the British Isles. In geographic terms I think you can describe anyone from Ireland as from the British Isles, so, if in geographic terms, you could describe anyone from Ireland as being Irish can you not, in geographic terms at least describe anyone from the British Isles as being British?



British_Isles_all.svg
 
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Point is, when someone tries to kick you out of their country, that you've invaded and occupied for extended periods of time, shouldn't you just leave, instead of being ridiculous and keeping 6 ****ing counties. 6 counties. wtf. >:C

So again. If the native Americans started a bombing campaign. Would it be fair to say that European Americans should up-sticks and leave instead of being ridiculous and keeping a whole ****ing country? You expect these people to just abandon their country?
 
Yeah, probably not in the best position to condemn Britons when it comes to "returning states".
 
Why not just give them their own country back, let them make their own way?

They have made their own way. They VOTED for the current set up (see good Friday agreement, which got the majority of votes from both communities in Northern Ireland and those in the south). The only people arguing against the right of those in Northern Ireland to make their own way here are Americans.
 
You, in my experience, never hear a person who comes from NI call themselves Irish they always stipulate they are from the north of the island i.e. Northern Ireland... quote-"i,m from Northern Ireland"

Paul

Quite a few of the guys I know from Northern Ireland call themselves Irish. Especially when talking to an American. Granted, every one of them is Catholic.



I disagree with this, I've always talked about Ireland as being part of the British Isles.

Terminology of the British Isles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is an island of Ireland and an island of Great Britain, together with a binch of other smaller islands they make up the British Isles. In geographic terms I think you can describe anyone from Ireland as from the British Isles, so, if in geographic terms, you could describe anyone from Ireland as being Irish can you not, in geographic terms at least describe anyone from the British Isles as being British?



British_Isles_all.svg


I'm not saying that Ireland isn't a part of the British Isles, I'm saying the term British isn't exclusively associated with things that come from the British Isles. The Islands were named as such when Ireland was governed by the British crown, so that would actually compliment my statement.

so someone from the Republic of Ireland is definitely from one of the British Isles, but they are not British. I'm only focussing on the word "british"
 
Quite a few of the guys I know from Northern Ireland call themselves Irish. Especially when talking to an American. Granted, every one of them is Catholic.

Many Catholics from Ulster actually make a point to never use the term "Northern Ireland" and just call it the North of Ireland.

Martin McGuniness and Gerry Adams make a point of doing this when they are on British TV.

I'm not saying that Ireland isn't a part of the British Isles, I'm saying the term British isn't exclusively associated with things that come from the British Isles. The Islands were named as such when Ireland was governed by the British crown, so that would actually compliment my statement.

so someone from the Republic of Ireland is definitely from one of the British Isles, but they are not British. I'm only focussing on the word "british"

I can see where you are coming from, lets just agree that British is a complex term!
 
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