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Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

The Prof said:
the reid bill, in my opinion, contains some plusses:

1. pre existing conditions

2. portability

3. coverage for 25 mil

4. rewards for quality over quantity, preventive care

5. end yearly caps

6. end lifetime caps

7. relieve emergency rooms, uncompensated care

8. end recision, the dumping of a patient once he or she develops a tumor, for example

***

the negatives held herein, however, are innumerable

and huge:

25 bil in mandates on already bankrupt states

half a tril cuts to m and m

taxes---on benefits, on employers, on employees, on device makers, on drug makers, on the insured, on the uninsured, on payroll, on personal savings accounts over $2500, limiting the deduction for catastrophic costs, more

mandates on individuals to buy for themselves that which they can't afford

fines if they don't, with criminalization and threats of jail time down the road

20 mil still uncovered

premiums up---says cbo

higher gdp devoted to health care---says cbo---up to 21.something percent

10 years of revenue vs 6 years of benefits

shell game, ponzie scheme

cbo---savings likely never to occur

doc fix, off budget, a quarter tril, passed in the house on thursday, under media blackout

jobs killer---taxes, fines, mandates, fees

taxes on upper, middle and lower classes

the real cost, 10 years of revenue vs 10 years of outlays---2014 to 2024---2.5 tril

the cost curve steepened up---cbo

rationing of services---mammograms, cervical screenings

taxpayer money for abortion

weak enforcement against illegals

no tort reform, defensive medical costs not addressed

no purchase across state lines

medicaid expanded to cover 15 mil more people, unfunded

obama says---my budget's balanced, you guys in CA and NV can pick up the tab

medicaid death rates---250% higher for cancer patients, 50% higher for cardio

medicaid is the ghetto of insurance plans

medicare advantage, home to 11 mil---zeroed out

reid has a one year doc fix, after which reimbursements drop 23%

doctor shortage

medicare doctors already refuse to treat medicare patients

reid morphs medicare into medicaid

kills innovation by punishing pharmaceuticals, device makers and vaccine growers

medicare costs have skyrocketed 55% in 10 years, will reach 1 tril by 2020---a solid case against govt options

kills rural care---medicare reimbursement rates are so paltry

mayo, everyone's model, announced recently it will no longer accept medicare or medicaid

harvard (obama's alma mater) medical school eviscerates reid---those who support it are "in denial:" costs, curves, crummy care

david broder, dean of journalists, published a piece today, titled, "budget buster"

catholic bishops call reid the worst yet, we saw what their eminences did to ms pelosi at 2am

states can opt out only after paying in

disincentives for primary care

40% of primary care doctors will not treat medicare patients

60% of specialists won't either

cuts to education and other state run services as CA and NV are suddenly saddled with bil's in liabilities

states will have to raise taxes

aarp and ama endorse---in today's times, a political minus

the CLASS ACT---young folks will have to pay premiums close to grampa's, resulting in healthy folks running away while the ill and aged are eager to join

louisiana purchase---300 mil bribe for ms landrieu

***

worst of both worlds

dems are signed on the bottom line under all of the above, with very little chance of passage

no one around here, for example, will deny or defend any of the poisons detailed above

this thing is gonna go on for weeks, even months

every day it's debated is death to the dems

this bill is a monstrosity, even your liberal acquaintances know it

reid, baucus, durbin, levin, rockefeller, wyden---they're stuck with it

pelosi and obama, too

senate leadership is beginning to realize they're gonna have to take out the PO

cuzza jiltin joe and stiff neck nelson, amongst others

yet changes upstairs are very, very difficult

and pelosi downstairs is gonna be hella pissed

abortion alone will kill it for her bluedogs

stupak said---hell to pay

the bishops back him up

having to work so hard just to start debate is very telling

you'll see

dems are doomed, this bill is the ugliest things america has ever seen

reaction against it is gonna be huge

it's already much bigger than/since virginia

just look at these pages, libs are throwing in the towel

hang in, friends

patience
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Well said!
 
...the politics seem to dictate that championing reform is smarter than attacking it.​


Sen. Michael Bennet (D-Colo.), a freshman Senator who is fighting to hold his seat in 2010, said he would support health care reform even if it cost him his job.

Appearing on CNN's "State of the Union," the Colorado Democrat was asked whether he would vote in favor of the legislation even if "every piece of evidence tells you, if you support that bill you will lose your job."

"Yes," Bennet replied, succinctly.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbs2oeAcG1E&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Sen. Michael Bennet: I'll Risk My Job To Vote For Health Reform[/ame]

Appointed to the seat after President Obama tapped former Colorado Sen. Ken Salazar (D) to be his Secretary of the Interior, Bennet may have a tricky reelection race. He faces a challenge from the progressive wing of his own party for the nomination, even though his state has only recently trended Democratic.

Bennet's vote on health care was at one point in time uncertain. But that was months ago. Now the politics seem to dictate that championing reform is smarter than attacking it.
 
Catawba said:
Yeah!!!!! :applaud


balloon_release_lots_of_balloons.jpg


This opens the path to Congress passing Health Care Reform with a simple majority of 51 votes!!!
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You've got to break out of what I call the sort of 50 plus one pattern of presidential politics which is you have nasty primaries where everybody's disheartened and beaten up. Then you divide the country 45 percent on one side, and 45 percent on the other, and 10 percent in the middle and (unintelligible) and Florida behind. And battle it out and then maybe you eke out a victory of 50 plus one. Then you can't govern. You know, you get Air Force One, I mean there are a lot of nice perks for being president. But you can't, you can't deliver on healthcare. We are not going to pass universal healthcare with a 50 plus one strategy. We're not going to have a serious, bold energy policy of the sort I proposed yesterday unless you build a working majority. - Obama, October, 2007

Hmm!
Breitbart.tv FLASHBACK: Obama Says Healthcare Won’t Pass With a Fifty-Plus-One Strategy
 
Whip Comes Down said:
Now the politics seem to dictate that championing reform is smarter than attacking it. ​
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tell bennet to talk to jiltin joe and stiff neck nelson

underlying reality---why would the partisans pass all this pain and poison without their pretty PO pot at the end?

either way, that's the choice facing reid, pelosi and the apologist

hippocrates---physician, first do no harm​
 
the stiff necked nebraskan on abc's stephy this morning:

stephy---can you live with it?

stiff neck---no, i voted for debate to begin, not the same as a "yes" vote, if this were the bill i'd have filibustered

nbc's mtp:

gregory---votes not there for PO

difi---we'll move forward, other countries have better care than we do, it's good that the plan is phased in, there are 1st year benefits for subsidies and pre-existers, the exchanges and public options don't start til later, we can watch and change it, there will be free flow of amendments, then must reconcile with house, the national debate begins

jiltin joe---no one thinks it will pass, every amendment is subject to filibuster, if there's a PO our only resort is filibuster, health care's in crisis but so is the economy, we can't make the economy worse, i'm convinced pre existing provisions won't even guarantee what they promise, the cbo itself says premiums will go up

gregory---are you, joe, as committed to deficit neutrality in afghanistan (LOL!)?

joe---wars must be paid for, yes

gregory---is the PO negotiable?

whip (head counter) durbin---our goals are extended coverage, affordability, deficit neutrality; insurance companies are making huge profits

gregory---a trigger?

durbin---variations on a theme, more goal-itudes, the opt out was just one alternative (past tense)

fi---no country on earth pays what we do, insurance companies 480% profit, the way things are now are unsustainable, thus a PO, i'd vote for no PO if there were reimbursement rates tied to...

joe---it's not enough, we extend coverage, that's gotta cost more, we must solve health care but not in a way that worsens the economy

(note how gregory didn't ask joe if he'd support a trigger, afraid of the answer, the jilter's already declared)

joe (continued)---when competitive capitalism fails we regulate and litigate, we don't allow govt to step in and operate

gregory---by christmas?

durbin---we must
 
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Republican Lies and Deception Over Cancer Screening

Republican Lies and Deception Over Cancer Screening​

It's highly unfortunate timing for the Obama administration that two new cancer-screening recommendations have been made by government and independent medical groups in a week where the president is seeking legislation for his historic health-care reform bill. While the measures have sparked intense controversy, it's irresponsible and disingenuous for Republicans to label these new guidelines as partisan-based and illustrative of the sort of "rationing" they claim reform will bring. Just like global warming, health-care has become overly politicized, and some things simply aren't political. We all breath the same air, drink the same water, and can contract cancer regardless of political persuasion.
 
molten_dragon said:
I can't say I'm entirely pleased about it. We need healthcare reform, but I don't think this is the right way to go about it.
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With the conservative Republicans around, is there a "right way" ??
My idea is to evaluate the civilized worlds (France, Germany, England, Spain,Sweden,Canada,Israel, Korea,Japan, on and on)take on this health care and then copy it, with only a few tweaks.
This should have happened years ago..but the political party of "NO" was around then as well.
 
Re: Republican Lies and Deception Over Cancer Screening

Whip Comes Down said:
It's highly unfortunate timing for the Obama administration that two new cancer-screening recommendations have been made by government and independent medical groups in a week where the president is seeking legislation for his historic health-care reform bill.
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it sure is

LOL!
 
Chuck Schumer says health care reform that includes public option can pass Senate

...health care reform that includes a public option can pass the Senate.
​

WASHINGTON — Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer says health care reform that includes a public option can pass the Senate.

Schumer says he is assuring his more conservative Democratic colleagues that the public option included in the Senate bill is "modest" and not the first step in a government takeover of the insurance industry.

Schumer is also reminding fellow Democratic senators that the bill would allow states to opt out of the public option. He asks that they not prevent his constituents in New York from getting the public option they desire.

Schumer predicts that at the end of the debate, the party will come together to support that version of a public option.

Schumer appeared Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation."
 
schumer---LOL!

exactly what would you expect him to say?

on mtp this morning, the number one progressive proponent of the robust PO referred to the opt out in the past tense
 
I guess the Stalinists, I mean Democrats, are winning.
 
no, friend, they're losing, bad

cuz everyone knows

10 years of revenues vs 6 years of benefits
 
The Prof said:
no, friend, they're losing, bad

cuz everyone knows

10 years of revenues vs 6 years of benefits
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Prof,

Why the fear of complex sentences? Then... I might actually be able to converse with you.:2wave:
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Prof,

Why the fear of complex sentences? Then... I might actually be able to converse with you.:2wave:
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I think that this "Prof" causes one to think , for a few seconds, then realize that its just more conservative rhetoric.
 
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Councilman said:
Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle - Yahoo! News

This is not good news.
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According to a Republican friend of mine, there were a lot of senators voting to discuss the issue, but they would never vote to approve it. I thought that was a particularly stupid comment, and an attempt on my friends part to convince himself that this vote will die a death and not be made law. I hope he is wrong.

I'm surrounded by Republicans who are very intelligent people, but very naive. One actually said to me that no-one will be without health care insurance unless they want to be because if they want a job they will find a job and ergo get insurance. I'm starting to think that I'm surrounded by fools. Do people actually believe that no-one is uninsured and without a job unless they actually want to be?
 
Happy Days said:
I'm surrounded by Republicans who are very intelligent people, but very naive. One actually said to me that no-one will be without health care insurance unless they want to be because if they want a job they will find a job and ergo get insurance. I'm starting to think that I'm surrounded by fools. Do people actually believe that no-one is uninsured and without a job unless they actually want to be?
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Perhaps they just aren't as intelligent as you think. Sounds like it.
 
misterman said:
Perhaps they just aren't as intelligent as you think. Sounds like it.
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Although it is not mutually exclusive to republicans:2razz:
 
Councilman said:
It appears a lot of Senators have joined the ranks of House members in wanting to retire from Congress right (expletive) now is the time to let all of them onow their time is short. Enough pressure can still stop this before we have to wait until next years elections to try to revere the Obama Socialist/Marxist Doctrine.

Here in California the major cast of idiots are a lost cause because all they care about is where their next Botox fix is coming from.
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What did Marx write that you're so opposed to?
 
The Prof said:
mandates upon individuals to buy for themselves that which they can't afford in the first place, the party's perverse view of universalism

fines for those who fail to comply, criminalization, with ultimate threats of jail time

Buy Insurance or Go to Jail? - The Note

http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Barthold_letter.pdf

say goodbye to the youth vote

not quite the change they believed

everyone knows
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Funny how you forgot to mention the subsidies for those who cannot afford insurance...oh wait, that is not part of the right wing talking points.
 
not a WORD about the bill and its indefensible details

LOL!

such as---half a tril in cuts to m and m

in other words, farewell seniors

seniors run this country, they vote, they got all the money, they know what's going on

pissing off gramps is political suicide

have at it
 
Redress said:
Funny how you forgot to mention the subsidies for those who cannot afford insurance...oh wait, that is not part of the right wing talking points.
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the "talking points" (LOL!) are provided by the bill

the subsidies cover only a minor portion, the bulk is picked up by the poor imposed upon person

who's criminalized if he can't come thru

very politic

have at it

cuz everyone knows
 
The Prof said:
not a WORD about the bill and its indefensible details

LOL!

such as---half a tril in cuts to m and m

in other words, farewell seniors

seniors run this country, they vote, they got all the money, they know what's going on

pissing off gramps is political suicide

have at it
Click to expand...

So cuts are bad now, huh?
 
Happy Days said:
One actually said to me that no-one will be without health care insurance unless they want to be because if they want a job they will find a job and ergo get insurance. I'm starting to think that I'm surrounded by fools. Do people actually believe that no-one is uninsured and without a job unless they actually want to be?
Click to expand...

ask your idiot friend who said it
 
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