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Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

15 million suddenly new enrollees into medicaid, the ghetto

unfunded

obama says, hey, we've balanced our end

you deal with "the mother of unfunded mandates," governor bredesen

you pay the tab, bill richardson, christine gregoire, bill ritter

Governors balk over what healthcare bill will cost states - The Boston Globe

indeed, the monstrous mandates upon the states, still contained in the bill, were the precise explanation reid provided when he said baucus was "not good for nevada"

Harry Reid: Health care bill won't work for Nevada - Wednesday, Sept. 16, 2009 | 10:36 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun

you really need to pay better attention
 
ask gramps

cuz no one (except you) cares what i think

Are you assuming the quality of medicare will decline?

Austin Frakt wrote:

for each additional dollar spent by the federal government (taxpayers) on the program since 2003, just $0.14 of it can be attributed to additional value (consumer surplus) to beneficiaries."

"So," he asks, do the extra payments for Advantage plans "produce little value to beneficiaries, as Obama claims, or are the benefits they fund important to maintain, as Republicans would have us believe? The balance of the evidence is on Obama's side. In fact, it is a landslide: for each dollar spent, 14 percent of the value reaches beneficiaries and 86 percent of it goes elsewhere (profit or cost)." Cutting the subsidies, he says, "should be a no-brainer."

Senate bill would also cut Medicare Advantage but reductions would not be as deep as in House measure | Medical Industry News - cleveland.com - - cleveland.com
 
you just don't get it

there's no reason to tell me

i'm not really talking to you

both of us need to convince gramps

and his grandkids

have at it

but i don't think they read herr frakt

WTF are you even talking about. Gramps will be fine and you are in no position to argue otherwise; your prose will not work with me.
 
goldenboy gets angry---LOL!

another expression most unpolitic

i'm not arguing, you are (wasting your time)

i'm linking

premiums to go up---says cbo

greater share of gdp devoted to health care---says cbo

cost curve bends wrong way---cbo

CBO Sees No Net Federal Cost Savings in Dem Health Plans - The Note

http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/106xx/doc10618/09-22-Analysis_of_Premiums.pdf#page=6

Oh, im not angry, only pressing the issue:2razz: exploiting P-envy partisan hacks is a hobby of mine (P-envy = President envy).

Do you view the CBO as a reputable source? If so let the record stand:mrgreen:
 
Do you view the CBO as a reputable source?

is the cbo credible---LOL!

ask gramps

another problem embraced by reid---many doctors can't afford to see medicare patients

PHYSICIANS REFUSE MEDICARE PATIENTS - The New York Times

dakotan kent conrad, baucus' #2 on senate finance, has maintained from the start that pegging reimbursement rates to medicare (or medicare +5, as pelosi upholds) will kill care in his state

Senator Kent Conrad | North Dakota

Conrad: I Oppose the Public Option Because It's Unfair to North Dakota Video
 
is the cbo credible---LOL!

ask gramps

The only reason ask is because partisan hacks tend to discredit the CBO when it differs from the stance of their party leaders (Pelosi for the dems, and Rush for the Reps).
 
You've got to break out of what I call the sort of 50 plus one pattern of presidential politics which is you have nasty primaries where everybody's disheartened and beaten up. Then you divide the country 45 percent on one side, and 45 percent on the other, and 10 percent in the middle and (unintelligible) and Florida behind. And battle it out and then maybe you eke out a victory of 50 plus one. Then you can't govern. You know, you get Air Force One, I mean there are a lot of nice perks for being president. But you can't, you can't deliver on healthcare. We are not going to pass universal healthcare with a 50 plus one strategy. We're not going to have a serious, bold energy policy of the sort I proposed yesterday unless you build a working majority. - Obama, October, 2007

Hmm!
Breitbart.tv FLASHBACK: Obama Says Healthcare Won’t Pass With a Fifty-Plus-One Strategy

I would say that is correct for universal health care, which I think would have been more preferable. However, this is not universal health care. For a public option that states can opt out of, it is working quite nicely.

We'll upgrade to universal health care after we have fixed some of the other problems left by the last administration. ;)
 
a rudimentary understanding of high school civics is another

Then you have never heard of reconciliation?

"it was adopted by the Congress back in 1974. Since that time, Congress has broadened its applicability, but its original function was quite simple: To ensure that, if a simple majority of the Senate wanted to adopt legislation that would generate federal revenues and hence reduce the deficit, a filibuster could not prevent such a revenue-increasing measure from passing."

Carl Pope: It's Called Democracy
 
i don't know about rush---LOL!

but this season at least, nancy has hardly discredited the cbo

it was out of dear deference to dr elmendorf that she was forced to do her QUARTER TRIL doc fix off line

and reid delayed his move for a month, awaiting word from the mature mathematician

(actually, scuttlebutt had it that reid was going back and forth with cbo every couple days, dissatisfied with the accountant's numbers, unable to take them public, ie, to the floor)

more rub---the public funding of abortion

My Way News - White House at odds with bishops over abortion

regardless of YOUR opinion (LOL!) about taxpayer financed abortion, or mine, it's a real problem for the party

stupak said---there'd be hell to pay

Bart Stupak: 'There Will Be Hell To Pay' If My Amendment Is Removed

nancy passed downstairs by a margin of ONE democrat

if the bishops are bellyaching, you better believe bluedogs will bolt

you probably hear this as spin, it's not

it's the news

read it
 
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I would say that is correct for universal health care, which I think would have been more preferable. However, this is not universal health care. For a public option that states can opt out of, it is working quite nicely.

We'll upgrade to universal health care after we have fixed some of the other problems left by the last administration. ;)

this, from the careful constitutionalist who thinks it requires but a simple majority of 51 to END DEBATE

LOL!
 
reconciliation brings major problems

it's weak, it's designed specifically for temporary, immediate budget outlays to avoid lockdown

that is, 2/3 of what's contemplated by obamacare cannot be passed via the nuclear option

all the social stuff would have to be stripped

also, reconciliation is very temporary, it has to be reupped periodically, frequently

most of reid's visions don't assume reality til after 2014, for example

most of all, reconciliation lacks political credibility

it is rightly seen as a cheap political tactic put into effect by a party that can't get what it wants thru normal parliamentary procedure

it lacks legitimacy

besides, reid on friday ruled reconciliation out, "flatly"

Reid: Saturday vote, won't use reconciliation - Live Pulse - POLITICO.com

you really need to get a tv
 
Well, the Democrats are extremely stupid to make this legislation not take effect until 2014.
They should've made it effective immediately.
Now, the people will see no results, be disillusioned, and the GOP will sweep the floor in 2010.
Personally, I'm fed up with supporting the Democrats ever election cycle and then seeing them not deliver.
I think we need to kick the blue dogs out... they only get in the way and make everything suck.
 
this, from the careful constitutionalist who thinks it requires but a simple majority of 51 to END DEBATE

LOL!

My original statement was, "This opens the path to Congress passing Health Care Reform with a simple majority of 51 votes!!!"

I said nothing about 51 votes to end debate. If they got 60 votes to begin the debate, I see no problem in getting 60 votes to end debate. There will be even more pressure brought against the Blue dogs to end debate.

It is my opinion reconciliation will be used to pass the final bill for Obama to sign.
 
Well, the Democrats are extremely stupid to make this legislation not take effect until 2014.
They should've made it effective immediately.
Now, the people will see no results, be disillusioned, and the GOP will sweep the floor in 2010.
Personally, I'm fed up with supporting the Democrats ever election cycle and then seeing them not deliver.
I think we need to kick the blue dogs out... they only get in the way and make everything suck.

i appreciate your frustration

if the dems had followed your advice and put bennies in immediately, however, cbo's scoring woulda killed the bill

why do you think reid had to play so clever as to count 10 years of revenue vs 6 years of expenses?

at least leadership sees it as a problem

you see? it's not just ME

Senate Dems eyeing earlier enactment for healthcare reform - TheHill.com

David S. Broder - David Broder: Fears of health-reform cost are justifiable

RealClearPolitics - Video - Harry Reid Suggests Health Care to Cost $2 Trillion

Health care plan to take 3 years getting started | Medical Industry News - cleveland.com - - cleveland.com
 
If they got 60 votes to begin the debate, I see no problem in getting 60 votes to end debate.

you see no problem?

the party sure does

as does the ap:

RealClearPolitics - Politics - Nov 22, 2009 - Senate Democrats at odds over health care bill

as do jiltin joe, stiff neck nelson and the nyt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/health/policy/23talkshows.html?_r=2&hp

lieberman has made clear half a dozen times he'll filibuster

he reiterated his resolve once more today on nbc's mtp

“if the public option is still in there, the only resort we have is to say no at the end to reporting the bill off the floor,” gibed jiltin joe

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/health/policy/23health.html?hp

you think he's bluffing?

try him

the financial times also sees problems you don't

FT.com / US & Canada - Splits widen for Democrats over health reform

so does politico:

Democrats hold line, but cracks show - Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com

There will be even more pressure brought against the Blue dogs to end debate.

the bluedogs do their barking in the house

they can't filibuster and they've already voted

there is no canine coalition in the upper house

It is my opinion reconciliation will be used to pass the final bill for Obama to sign

you know how seriously i heed your opinion, friend

but, sadly, leader reid differs

read the links
 
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you see no problem?

the party sure does

as does the ap:

RealClearPolitics - Politics - Nov 22, 2009 - Senate Democrats at odds over health care bill

as do jiltin joe, stiff neck nelson and the nyt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/health/policy/23talkshows.html?_r=2&hp

lieberman has made clear half a dozen times he'll filibuster

he reiterated his resolve once more today on nbc's mtp

“if the public option is still in there, the only resort we have is to say no at the end to reporting the bill off the floor,” gibed jiltin joe

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/health/policy/23health.html?hp

you think he's bluffing?

try him

the financial times also sees problems you don't

FT.com / US & Canada - Splits widen for Democrats over health reform

so does politico:

Democrats hold line, but cracks show - Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com



the bluedogs do their barking in the house

they can't filibuster and they've already voted

there is no canine coalition in the upper house



you know how seriously i heed your opinion, friend

but, sadly, leader reid differs

read the links

It ain't over till the fat lady sings! I don't sweat the small ****. All the pundits never thought we would get the 60 votes to begin the debate, yet we did! :)
 
My original statement was, "This opens the path to Congress passing Health Care Reform with a simple majority of 51 votes!!!"

no, it opens the path to THE SENATE to try to get 60 so that a vote can take place

hello

more problems---incentives in the bill for employers to drop coverage

it shouldn't be necessary to point out that this aint me talking

it's cnn

(actually, it's all over the place, cnn was the fastest find)

The Baucus health-care bill's negative repercussions - Oct. 9, 2009
 
catawba croons:

all we need is fifty one
why sweat nelson and lieberman
don't worry
be happy

LOL!
 
My original statement was, "This opens the path to Congress passing Health Care Reform with a simple majority of 51 votes!!!"

I said nothing about 51 votes to end debate. If they got 60 votes to begin the debate, I see no problem in getting 60 votes to end debate. There will be even more pressure brought against the Blue dogs to end debate.

It is my opinion reconciliation will be used to pass the final bill for Obama to sign.

They just barely got 60. Only one single Senator needs to switch to ruin that. It's still a shaky proposition.

I think getting cloture now actually makes it politically hard to use reconciliation later. It looks even sneakier. But it may happen.
 
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