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U.S. Fears Iraqis Will Not Keep Up Rebuilt Projects

reefedjib

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BAGHDAD — In its largest reconstruction effort since the Marshall Plan, the United States government has spent $53 billion for relief and reconstruction in Iraq since the 2003 invasion, building tens of thousands of hospitals, water treatment plants, electricity substations, schools and bridges.

The projects run the gamut — from a cutting-edge, $270 million water treatment plant in Nasiriya that works at a fraction of its intended capacity because it is too sophisticated for Iraqi workers to operate, to a farmers’ market that farmers cannot decide how to share, to a large American hospital closed immediately after it was handed over to Iraq because the government was unable to supply it with equipment, a medical staff or electricity.

The concern about the sustainability of the projects comes as Iraq is preparing for pivotal national elections in January and as rebuilding has emerged as a political imperative in Iraq, eclipsing security in some parts of the country as the main anxiety of an electorate frustrated with the lack of social, economic and political progress. American forces are scheduled to begin withdrawing in large numbers next year.

In hundreds of cases during the past two years, the Iraqi government has refused or delayed the transfer of American-built projects because it cannot staff or maintain them, Iraqi and American government officials say.

Other facilities, including hospitals, schools and prisons built with American funds, have remained empty long after they were completed because there were not enough Iraqis trained to operate them.

Read the rest at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/world/middleeast/21reconstruct.html?_r=1&hp
 
This is a top down problem. The people on top think that by tossing money at the situation they can make a country developed within just a few years. It doesn't work that way. I've heard for a while that the Iraqi people are not making the transition, and this article confirms it.
 
I believe we are going to have to spend decades and probably tens of trillions of dollars if we ever hope to be sucessful converting Iraqis into an American way of thinking.

What I suspect will happen once America leaves them to thier own choices is they will revert to what they were before we arrived.
 
I had heard of this before as well. It is quite depressing. From the article it seems there continues to be electricity shortages making some of these facilities non-operational. There also seems to be a shortage of personnel (for hospital).

But the biggest item is the lack of properly trained personnel. I imagine the Iraqis as a man who has owned a 1968 Chevy Chevelle for 30 years. They know it inside and out, how to fix the rotor ignition and repair and tune the carburetor. All of a sudden we give him a 2009 Chevy Monte Carlo and expect him to learn how to repair it. We've got computer controlled electronic ignition and electronic fuel injection. He hasn't got a clue how it works. He has no background in computers to figure it out. He's a tinkerer and you can't tinker on modern cars.
 
A lot of the best and the brightest have perished or have fled Iraq. I think it will be at least a generation before we see high competency and field redundancy in critical modes such as medicine and infrastructure.
 
Its not a perfect democracy in and no one ever thought it would be but we have won the war in Iraq...........It is more peaceful there on any given night as it is in Detroit.........It kills you lefties to give President Bush any credit but because of him Saddam and his murderous rapist sons are dead..We do have soemewhat of a democracy there and its up to the Iraqis from here on out........Thank you President Bush..............
 
Only reinforces what Ive thought for awhile, the Iraqi's are basically using us as a crutch.

Possibly,

But I do think that they are fairly justifiable in that way of thinking, if it is so. I mean if someone blows up your house, and they expect you to rebuild it, ten it would only make sense that you would try to get anything possible.
 
First a wish everyone would understand that unless you have a time machine you are not going to get to go back and change the mistakes Bush made and they were plenty.

The important thing to understand is we can not afford to spend the rest of out lives taking care of the Iraqis. It's like with children at some point you have let go out and make it on their own, and hope and pray you have past on to them the knowledge to get by.

I hate to bring up old axioms but you can lead a camel to water but you can't make drink. Or something like that.

As long as we can insure that Iraq never become the threat we were lead to believe they were under Saddam we have done enough. I'm not saying abandon them all together, just step back and give them room and time to sink or swim.
 
First a wish everyone would understand that unless you have a time machine you are not going to get to go back and change the mistakes Bush made and they were plenty.

The important thing to understand is we can not afford to spend the rest of out lives taking care of the Iraqis. It's like with children at some point you have let go out and make it on their own, and hope and pray you have past on to them the knowledge to get by.

I hate to bring up old axioms but you can lead a camel to water but you can't make drink. Or something like that.

As long as we can insure that Iraq never become the threat we were lead to believe they were under Saddam we have done enough. I'm not saying abandon them all together, just step back and give them room and time to sink or swim.

We pull out now Sadr is going to return from Iran, and as soon as Ayatollah Al-Sistani dies (whether natural or not) and we have an Ayatollah Sadr as the leader of the Shia faith in Iraq with a STRONG connection to Iran-- THe United States' mission in the Middle East is FUBAR. It will be much more than keeping Saddam in power. The Muslims will eat each other alive.
 
Its not a perfect democracy in and no one ever thought it would be but we have won the war in Iraq...........

What does this have to do with anything? The "war" was over within a month.


It is more peaceful there on any given night as it is in Detroit.........

Source? Two can play this game
"Human beings will do anything, anything. I am convinced. That's why when all those beheadings started in Iraq it didn't bother me. A lot of people here were horrified, "Whaaaa, beheadings!" What, are you fu*king surprised? Just one more form of extreme human behavior. Besides, who cares about some mercenary civilian contractor from Oklahoma who gets his head cut off? F*ck 'em. Hey Jack, you don't want to get your head cut off? Stay the f*ck in Oklahoma. They ain't cuttin' off heads in Oklahoma, far as I know. But I do know this: you strap on a gun and go struttin' around some other mens country you better be ready for some action Jack.

It kills you lefties to give President Bush any credit but because of him Saddam and his murderous rapist sons are dead..

Red herring stew! It has nothing to do with Saddam and his sons; rebuilding Iraq will cost more than the benefits received.

We do have somewhat of a democracy there and its up to the Iraqis from here on out........Thank you President Bush..............

Yes, thank you President Bush for deficit spending when the country was not in recession. Wouldn't the conservative approach be to raise taxes to offset the increase in spending? Supporting such actions makes you just as much as a lefty.
 
I believe we are going to have to spend decades and probably tens of trillions of dollars if we ever hope to be sucessful converting Iraqis into an American way of thinking.

What I suspect will happen once America leaves them to thier own choices is they will revert to what they were before we arrived.

Why would the citizens of Iraq want too turn into Americans?

Paul
 
Only reinforces what Ive thought for awhile, the Iraqi's are basically using us as a crutch.

I would go further, America has been the scaffold holding the society together. But, if you dismantle and desecrate a country, as America and the coalition did, what are we to expect?

Paul
 
What does this have to do with anything? The "war" was over within a month.




Source? Two can play this game



Red herring stew! It has nothing to do with Saddam and his sons; rebuilding Iraq will cost more than the benefits received.



Yes, thank you President Bush for deficit spending when the country was not in recession. Wouldn't the conservative approach be to raise taxes to offset the increase in spending? Supporting such actions makes you just as much as a lefty.

My very clueless left wing friend..........The war was won because the success of the surge ordered by President Bush.That is undenialable no matter how much you lefties try and blame everything on President Bush....Its true President Bush was no fiscal Conservative but compared to your hero Hussein Obama he is the biggest Conservative that ever lived.....As far as spending goes you lefties love to spend money as long as its not yours and is the taxpayers..............
 
My very clueless left wing friend..........The war was won because the success of the surge ordered by President Bush.That is undenialable no matter how much you lefties try and blame everything on President Bush....Its true President Bush was no fiscal Conservative but compared to your hero Hussein Obama he is the biggest Conservative that ever lived.....As far as spending goes you lefties love to spend money as long as its not yours and is the taxpayers..............

While I agree the surge was necessary, it should have not even been an issue. President Bush assaulted Iraq with an inadequate amount of troops and if it wasn't for General Petraeus, Iraq would have ripped wide open.

Bush was to Petraeus what the 2nd motion is to a 1st motion.

It wasn't only the surge that saved the day, but the overall planning by Petraeus and the Sunni Awakening.
 
My very clueless left wing friend..........The war was won because the success of the surge ordered by President Bush.That is undenialable no matter how much you lefties try and blame everything on President Bush....Its true President Bush was no fiscal Conservative but compared to your hero Hussein Obama he is the biggest Conservative that ever lived.....As far as spending goes you lefties love to spend money as long as its not yours and is the taxpayers..............

Still trying to rehabilitate the man that you refer to as a "great and inspired world leader"? :2funny:
 
Still trying to rehabilitate the man that you refer to as a "great and inspired world leader"? :2funny:

And Obama is?

Keep playing the partisan game.

Newsflash: No one, especially the Presidents of these United States, are perfect people...or often even decent people.


:lol:
 
My very clueless left wing friend..........The war was won because the success of the surge ordered by President Bush.That is undenialable no matter how much you lefties try and blame everything on President Bush....Its true President Bush was no fiscal Conservative but compared to your hero Hussein Obama he is the biggest Conservative that ever lived.....As far as spending goes you lefties love to spend money as long as its not yours and is the taxpayers..............

Why do you feel the need to build men of straw? My quell has nothing to do with the surge, and all to do with the initial reasons of invading Iraq (the lies). Calling me a lefty might appease your partisanship, but is quite a bit off.

I really have no issue with spending as long as it is taxed appropriately. Whether or not this leads to political ousting is the real question you should focus on; because face NP, if Bush had raised taxes necessary to offset the cost of the war on terror, John Kerry very well could have been president.

Was an extra 4 years of the Bush presidency worth $4 trillion of debt?
 
Its not a perfect democracy in and no one ever thought it would be but we have won the war in Iraq...........It is more peaceful there on any given night as it is in Detroit.........It kills you lefties to give President Bush any credit but because of him Saddam and his murderous rapist sons are dead..We do have soemewhat of a democracy there and its up to the Iraqis from here on out........Thank you President Bush..............

Yeah okay only in Detroit there's no such thing as daily suicide bombings, hundreds of people being kidnapped for ransom or people driving cars laden with explosives into government offices. If you take ALL of that out, yeah I guess Iraq is JUST like Detroit in that sense.
 
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And Obama is?

Keep playing the partisan game.

Newsflash: No one, especially the Presidents of these United States, are perfect people...or often even decent people.


:lol:

When I refer to Obama as a "great and inspired world leader".....your criticism will have some credibility. As of yet, I haven't made the comparison.
 
When I refer to Obama as a "great and inspired world leader".....your criticism will have some credibility. As of yet, I haven't made the comparison.

Just don't throw stones when you live in a glass house is all I'm saying. You can talk trash all you want about Bush but sooner or later, Obama is going to screw up. Just like everyone else. Instead of trying to belittle the opposing side, regardless of whether that person is a moron or not, try coming up with forward thinking suggestions. Throw some actual factual solutions out there. I know we all love to talk trash. IT's fun. But it never really solves anything besides putting you farther on your side of the fence and me farther on mine. C'mon. let's just hug, make up, and do some bi-partisan spooning.

EVERYBODY!!!
 
...but sooner or later, Obama is going to screw up...

sooner or later!? You don't consider that he has already screwed up?

- failed economic stimulus
- wrong side of Honduras
- withdrawing missile shield and dropping Poland and Check as allies.
- got bumkiss from NATO on Afghanistan
- got bumkiss from Asia on Afghanistan

The only win I credit him with is decriminalizing marijuana.

He's not doing so hot.
 
Just don't throw stones when you live in a glass house is all I'm saying. You can talk trash all you want about Bush but sooner or later, Obama is going to screw up. Just like everyone else. Instead of trying to belittle the opposing side, regardless of whether that person is a moron or not, try coming up with forward thinking suggestions. Throw some actual factual solutions out there. I know we all love to talk trash. IT's fun. But it never really solves anything besides putting you farther on your side of the fence and me farther on mine. C'mon. let's just hug, make up, and do some bi-partisan spooning.

EVERYBODY!!!

Find E.D....I'll spoon with you....but I draw the line at making a Navy Pride Sandwich.
 
sooner or later!? You don't consider that he has already screwed up?

- failed economic stimulus
- wrong side of Honduras
- withdrawing missile shield and dropping Poland and Check as allies.
- got bumkiss from NATO on Afghanistan
- got bumkiss from Asia on Afghanistan

haha I was trying to be bi-partisan. :D I should have said "already has, might soon, or could later screw up".

Better?

The only win I credit him with is decriminalizing marijuana.

He's not doing so hot.

And he did a good job celebrating my Birthday so props to the man for that.
 
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