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Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

GySgt said:
Well, if they don't then they will do the best they can with what our civilian leaders leave them with. Nothing new.
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I don't know what to say.....I just want them to come home, they have served their country well, for eight long years. I just wish I could thank each and everyone of them for their service. I hate war, I hate the military industrial complex, but I love our troops, and I want them home, I cannot stress this enough, I think they need to come home, now!
 
GySgt said:
That's between you and who you discuss with. For me, if you wish to know something, I'll see what I can do to explain. Let me explain this...

The military has spent 8 years in Afghanistan developing cultural knowledge and wisdom. It has spent 11 years studying the Iraqi culture (ignored by the Rumsfeld coven) and another 6 years in Iraq up close with the culture. Couped with my persoinal dribve to undertand my enemy and my personal education in Middle Eastern studies I feel confident enough to carry on a discussion (if only to understand things a bit better for myself).

They are two different cultures and thusly two diffferent kinds of people. If you still refuse to see this then let me put it to you a different way...

The Russians were at a crossroad after the Berlin Wall came down. They could have traveled the western world of success or sought something familiar. In the later part of Yeltsin's presidency and throughout Putin's, they chose to surrender their individual liberties and freedoms one by one in exchange for security. Is something western Europeans could do? Americans? These are different civilizations with different cultures and histories. The Middle East is no different.

But if you prefer to "nu-uh" what I offer or to fall back on the "prove it" dismissals while refusing to perform a simple google search, then live in ignorance and do me a favor - ignore me.




As compared to Iraq? No. Don't confuse the difference between individuals and a society. The population of Afghanistan is largely "clan" based. Iraq is "tribal" based. Those who are educated in Afghanistan spend an enormous amount of time focused on clan power and preservation over national good.

Iraq spent a few years battering their way through their historical tendency's to hate each other. The Shia sought revenge while the Sunni sought to further prove their superiority. In the end, the two distinct tribes grew tired of swimming in Muslim blood. What they have is their long line of educational base amongst its population to push foreward. Afghanistan does not have this advantage. They are clan (gang, thugs, warlords,) based. Those who lived in the cities were only somewhat educated if they were males and they were subjected to Saudi built Madrasahs where religious Sharia was a big part of curriculum. Or do you think the secular Saddam Hussein and the religious Tali-Ban had similar goals in its education systems?


Think of Somalia and the almost impossibility of national unity and you will have an idea of what your troops are dealing with in Afghanistan while our politicians far away in Washington profess to know what's best.
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Nice rant do you have proof
 
ptif219 said:
So how is that different than Iraq?
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The Iraqis are a very intelligent people compared to the Afghans and they were already used to a central government unlike Afghanistan where they have always governed under a tribal system.

Which is why backing up the corrupt central government there installed by the last administration has failed for the last 8 years.
 
Catawba said:
The Iraqis are a very intelligent people compared to the Afghans and they were already used to a central government unlike Afghanistan where they have always governed under a tribal system.

Which is why backing up the corrupt central government there installed by the last administration has failed for the last 8 years.
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So Saddam the dictator was a central government?
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ptif219 said:
So Saddam the dictator was a central government?
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It is my understanding that he pretty much called the shots for Iraq. Was there another I am unaware of? One entity, good of bad, running the country pretty much defines a central government.

If it doesn't fit your preconceived notions about Iraq, I am sorry. Under Sadam, Iraq became one of the most well educated countries in the Middle East.

What do you base your claim on that Afghanistan is anywhere close to the sophistication of pre-occupation Iraq?
 
Catawba said:
It is my understanding that he pretty much called the shots for Iraq. Was there another I am unaware of? One entity, good of bad, running the country pretty much defines a central government.

If it doesn't fit your preconceived notions about Iraq, I am sorry. Under Sadam, Iraq became one of the most well educated countries in the Middle East.

What do you base your claim on that Afghanistan is anywhere close to the sophistication of pre-occupation Iraq?
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Is that why we have had problems with the different sects fighting each other in Iraq?
 
ptif219 said:
Is that why we have had problems with the different sects fighting each other in Iraq?
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Sects fighting, yes, especially since we removed the central leader that was keeping them at bay.

There never was such a central leader, good or bad, in Afghanistan. That is the point being made.
 
Catawba said:
Sects fighting, yes, especially since we removed the central leader that was keeping them at bay.

There never was such a central leader, good or bad, in Afghanistan. That is the point being made.
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You mean he was filling mass graves with the disobedient.
 
ptif219 said:
Is that why we have had problems with the different sects fighting each other in Iraq?
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It is true that neither our occupation nor our corrupt puppet government has done as good a job as Saddam did at keeping the sects at bay.

In Afghanistan they have a tribal leadership history, unlike with Iraq under Saddam. There has never been a central leader (dictator if you like) as a controlling central entity in Afghanistan.
 
ptif219 said:
You mean he was filling mass graves with the disobedient.
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Most of that was carried out when we were his ally. You do realize this thread is about Afghanistan, right?
 
in order to support the troops we need a tax hike to pay for all the disabled vets who will be coming back from afghanistan.
 
Catawba said:
It is true that neither our occupation nor our corrupt puppet government has done as good a job as Saddam did at keeping the sects at bay.

In Afghanistan they have a tribal leadership history, unlike with Iraq under Saddam. There has never been a central leader (dictator if you like) as a controlling central entity in Afghanistan.
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Wrong they had Kings before 1973
 
the va can't handle the increased caseload of disabled vets. we need a tax hike on the rich. support the troops. time to pay up.
 
obvious Child said:
ptif219,

All you do is criticize.

How about you offer YOUR plan for a change?
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I am not President or in a position of authority so it is irrelevant.


It was ok to bash Bush and Blame Bush but don't talk against Obama.
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ptif219 said:
I am not President or in a position of authority so it is irrelevant.
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So you are completely incapable of fielding anything but criticism?

It was ok to bash Bush and Blame Bush but don't talk against Obama.
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Which makes you a partisan hack. If they did, I can to! Apparently you have utterly failed to notice many of us non-partisan hacks observing that Bush and Obama are in more or less the same position and thus we treat them the same.
 
rebuilding afghanistan will take a lot of money. we need a patriotic tax hike on the rich.
 
donc said:
Any ideas how we would implement this tax hike you have advocated?
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yap, soak the rich who are currently paying about 25% after deductions. up it to 30% and tell them it is their patriotic duty.
 
scottsoperson said:
yap, soak the rich who are currently paying about 25% after deductions. up it to 30% and tell them it is their patriotic duty.
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That would work;I would soak crunch for twice that, unless I could con him out of where he gets them nice trout. :mrgreen:
 
obvious Child said:
So you are completely incapable of fielding anything but criticism?



Which makes you a partisan hack. If they did, I can to! Apparently you have utterly failed to notice many of us non-partisan hacks observing that Bush and Obama are in more or less the same position and thus we treat them the same.
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Treat the same. Did you listen to his speech. Here how about this commentary on the speech.


Opinion: Searching in Vain for the Obama Magic - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Never before has a speech by President Barack Obama felt as false as his Tuesday address announcing America's new strategy for Afghanistan. It seemed like a campaign speech combined with Bush rhetoric -- and left both dreamers and realists feeling distraught.
 
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