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Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

ptif219 said:
Obama is playing politics with our troops lives.
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what gives you this idea?


Obama is trying to figure out the best way to further his political agenda by using Afghanistan.
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No, Obama in my opinion is trying to save the lives of our troops, while turning most of the grunt work over to the Afghans.
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donc said:
ptif219 said:
what gives you this idea?




No, Obama in my opinion is trying to save the lives of our troops, while turning most of the grunt work over to the Afghans.
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Turning the job over to the Afghans is not going to work.
We tried that approach in Vietnam and look what happened.
We left South Vietnam, apparently strong, to defend itself...
It got overrun in a few months.

Let's face it, we have two options:
1. Get out and let the Taliban take over.
2. Turn the country into a police state.
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TheNextEra said:
The only ones playing politics are the Obama haters on the right. They don't care about the troops, just hurting Obama.
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Do you think everyone who loathes Obama is on the right?

Are you questioning the patriotism of dissent? I remember the right questioning the patriotism of those on the left on dissent over the Iraq War during the Bush Administration. Now you're doing the same thing they did.
 
Neitzluber said:
The country called Vietnam.
One of two places where we lost wars in the 20th century.
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That's not what I was trying to point out. You said we left Vietnam when the S.V. we're strong? I believe we left when Saigon was captured and the War was over...
 
donc said:
Something is screwed up in you quote box.:2wave:
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I fixed it, one person messed up a quote earlier in the thread and so each subsequent quote in that lineage of quotes was off. :D Thanks though! I saw it too after the fact :lol:
 
EpicDude86 said:
That's not what I was trying to point out. You said we left Vietnam when the S.V. we're strong? I believe we left when Saigon was captured and the War was over...
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We pulled our combat troops out after the Paris Peace Accord was signed in 1973.
We believed the South Vietnamese would be able to hold out, as their army was far superior to the North's in terms of numbers and technology.
We were wrong, however.
In 1975, North Vietnam launched a large offensive, in violation of the treaty, and the South was caught by surprise.
Their army scurried away, confused, in disastrous retreats.
We desperately went in to rescue people from Saigon in Operation Frequent Wind.
We managed to save some South Vietnamese, and now many of them live in the US.
But we lost the war.

What did we learn?


Obama didn't learn anything.
Many people haven't learned anything.

We need to create a police-state in order to win.
We should get out and let the Taliban take over.
 
Neitzluber said:
We pulled our combat troops out after the Paris Peace Accord was signed in 1973.
We believed the South Vietnamese would be able to hold out, as their army was far superior to the North's in terms of numbers and technology.
We were wrong, however.
In 1975, North Vietnam launched a large offensive, in violation of the treaty, and the South was caught by surprise.
Their army scurried away, confused, in disastrous retreats.
We desperately went in to rescue people from Saigon in Operation Frequent Wind.
We managed to save some South Vietnamese, and now many of them live in the US.
But we lost the war.

What did we learn?


Obama didn't learn anything.
Many people haven't learned anything.

We need to create a police-state in order to win.
We should get out and let the Taliban take over.
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Right, misread you. My apologies!
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
Do you think everyone who loathes Obama is on the right?

Are you questioning the patriotism of dissent? I remember the right questioning the patriotism of those on the left on dissent over the Iraq War during the Bush Administration. Now you're doing the same thing they did.
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#1 You will have to first show where I said everyone that disagrees with Obama is an Obama-hater.

Epic fail on your part, please go back into the closet.
 
TheNextEra said:
#1 You will have to first show where I said everyone that disagrees with Obama is an Obama-hater.

Epic fail on your part, please go back into the closet.
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I'm very liberal, but I dislike Obama. I don't like what he's doing.

I'm pretty much stuck supporting Democrats, including him, because I am scared of what Republicans might do if they get power again.

We already saw what they did with their 12 years of congressional power and their 8 years of presidential power.

It was not good for America.

It did not make America more fair.
 
TheNextEra said:
#1 You will have to first show where I said everyone that disagrees with Obama is an Obama-hater.

Epic fail on your part, please go back into the closet.
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Why the nasty attitude? I didn't insult you. Why did you feel it necessary to insult me?
 
Neitzluber said:
Neitzluber said:
Turning the job over to the Afghans is not going to work.
We tried that approach in Vietnam and look what happened.
We left South Vietnam, apparently strong, to defend itself...
It got overrun in a few months.

Let's face it, we have two options:
1. Get out and let the Taliban take over.
2. Turn the country into a police state.
Click to expand...

We lost Viet Nam, when we lost the peoples trust. We started losing the peoples trust on March 16, 1968 in Quảng Ngãi Province, in the villages of Mỹ Lai and My Khe, where over 500 mostly elderly women and some children were killed, some were also raped.

Prior to that we got good intel from the Villagers as to the where abouts Charlie was. After that all we got was glares when we passed a Hooche.

Afghanistan hasn’t gotten to that point yet but the longer we stay the more we chance of wearing out our welcome.
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donc said:
Neitzluber said:
We lost Viet Nam, when we lost the peoples trust. We started losing the peoples trust on March 16, 1968 in Quảng Ngãi Province, in the villages of Mỹ Lai and My Khe, where over 500 mostly elderly women and some children were killed, some were also raped.

Prior to that we got good intel from the Villagers as to the where abouts Charlie was. After that all we got was glares when we passed a Hooche.

Afghanistan hasn’t gotten to that point yet but the longer we stay the more we chance of wearing out our welcome.
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I think we've already worn out our welcome.

Think, if the tables were turned, and Afghanistan were a world superpower, and we were a small pastoral nation, would you have much patience for a bunch of foreigners kicking your door open in the middle of the night to check for your cousin Charlie because he might have weapons in there?
Would you have much patience if suddenly the local church got obliterated by an air-strike and your son were crippled by shrapnel?

I think not.

The easiest, most effective way of thinking about occupation is to put yourself in the shoes of the occupied.
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Neitzluber said:
I'm very liberal, but I dislike Obama. I don't like what he's doing.

I'm pretty much stuck supporting Democrats, including him, because I am scared of what Republicans might do if they get power again.

We already saw what they did with their 12 years of congressional power and their 8 years of presidential power.

It was not good for America.

It did not make America more fair.
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Are we talking 12 consecutive years? or just the most recent 12 years that they had it? I mean either way I guess one could say they did some pretty ****ty stuff...The Patriot Act being on of the best/worst things they did. :lol:
 
TheNextEra said:
The only ones playing politics are the Obama haters on the right. They don't care about the troops, just hurting Obama.
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This from the people that claimed the surge wasn't working and Iraq was not winnable.
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ptif219 said:
The surge worked and we have been able to downsize in Iraq. We need to give the military what it needs in Afghanistan to win.
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The surge and bribes to the bad actors only made our occupation successful in Iraq, that is all. We beat back the resistance to our invasion. The puppet government we enabled there can only stand with our occupation.

That's what you call working? The Rand Report to the Pentagon determined the "war on terror" has been a failure.
 
Neitzluber said:
donc said:
Turning the job over to the Afghans is not going to work.
We tried that approach in Vietnam and look what happened.
We left South Vietnam, apparently strong, to defend itself...
It got overrun in a few months.

And we have been trading partners with Vietnam for years. How horrible!!!!

Let's face it, we have two options:
1. Get out and let the Taliban take over.
2. Turn the country into a police state.
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The Taliban are only slightly less corrupt than the government we installed there. I see little difference. By killing the millions of Afghanis necessary to dominate them we will just continue to create more terrorists worldwide as we have done in the last 8 years. Why continue to be counter productive?
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donc said:
Neitzluber said:
We lost Viet Nam, when we lost the peoples trust. We started losing the peoples trust on March 16, 1968 in Quảng Ngãi Province, in the villages of Mỹ Lai and My Khe, where over 500 mostly elderly women and some children were killed, some were also raped.

Prior to that we got good intel from the Villagers as to the where abouts Charlie was. After that all we got was glares when we passed a Hooche.
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Exactly and because we did not learn from our mistakes in Vietnam, that is also basically the same reasons the Rand Report to the Pentagon found we are losing the "war on terrorism". The more civilians we kill the easier it is for the the terrorists to recruit new members worldwide.
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Catawba said:
The surge and bribes to the bad actors only made our occupation successful in Iraq, that is all. We beat back the resistance to our invasion. The puppet government we enabled there can only stand with our occupation.

That's what you call working? The Rand Report to the Pentagon determined the "war on terror" has been a failure.
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Obama not making decisions until he thinks it will help his career is helping?
JC-ROFL.gif
 
Catawba said:
donc said:
Exactly and because we did not learn from our mistakes in Vietnam, that is also basically the same reasons the Rand Report to the Pentagon found we are losing the "war on terrorism". The more civilians we kill the easier it is for the the terrorists to recruit new members worldwide.
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Since Obama took over the opinion of Americans has dropped as far as believing we are winning. Obama is bad for popular opinion and moral because he will not make decision and win the war as he said he would.
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ptif219 said:
Obama not making decisions until he thinks it will help his career is helping?
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And you have what documentation to back up your opinion?
 
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