Dems at risk of losing Obama's old Senate seat

obvious Child · Nov 16, 2009

American said:
It really doesn't matter since the people that rule those sorts of government don't seem to care about the definitions either.

Wow. Another person who clearly does not understand. Name me an actual Communist country in history, and no, China and the USSR failed key requirements.

Nevertheless, those forms of government aren't us, never were, and should never be. So anyone who promotes them is anti-American, anti-consitutional republic and something the American people don't like or want.

Huh. Bush won reelection. You appear to be wrong as usual.

DarkWizard12 · Nov 16, 2009

obvious Child said:
Bigger government doesn't make you any of those. Government expanded vastly under Bush to a size unseen since WWII. Did that make him a Marxist/Communist/Socialist?

No.

With the wiretapping program, and further centralizing policies, Bush sure as hell bordered it, or at least opened the door for what is happening now.

EpicDude86 · Nov 16, 2009

Crunch said:
Not according to the CNN, ABC, and NBC polls. :lamo

Oooh! Polls by a News network! He's got you there! There are no margins of error or leading results in those things!

apdst · Nov 16, 2009

Crunch said:
One can always hope....... and I surely do.

It's a given. Don't need to hope too hard.

EpicDude86 · Nov 16, 2009

obvious Child said:
Wow. Another person who clearly does not understand. Name me an actual Communist country in history, and no, China and the USSR failed key requirements.

There never will be any Communist country, ever, because it can only be achieved in theory. Human beings always **** it up and make it a dictatorship.

DarkWizard12 · Nov 16, 2009

obvious Child said:
Wow. Another person who clearly does not understand. Name me an actual Communist country in history, and no, China and the USSR failed key requirements.

China and USSR just failed, period, as does every country that chooses communism.

obvious Child · Nov 17, 2009

DarkWizard12 said:
With the wiretapping program, and further centralizing policies, Bush sure as hell bordered it, or at least opened the door for what is happening now.

Moving towards authoritarian doesn't make you Communist. Remember that Fascism which is in many way the opposite of Communism is exceptionally authoritarian.

China and USSR just failed, period, as does every country that chooses communism.

Interesting how you think they choose Communism when they failed to enact the basic premises of it. It's like saying country A tried capitalism yet banned markets. Huh?

obvious Child · Nov 17, 2009

EpicDude86 said:
There never will be any Communist country, ever, because it can only be achieved in theory. Human beings always **** it up and make it a dictatorship.

That's not really the reason it won't work. Communism requires people to sacrifice for the greater good and not be self greed bastards. Clearly, that ain't humanity. Communism is inherently contradictory to human nature, therefore it will never ever ever work in virtually all human societies.

EpicDude86 · Nov 17, 2009

obvious Child said:
Moving towards authoritarian doesn't make you Communist. Remember that Fascism which is in many way the opposite of Communism is exceptionally authoritarian.

Communism in theory is not as far left as Fascism, true, but it is still a left leaning ideology because it requires more GOVERNMENT control than control by the People or Private sector.

obvious Child said:
Interesting how you think they choose Communism when they failed to enact the basic premises of it. It's like saying country A tried capitalism yet banned markets. Huh?

They did choose it, and then people exploited it because people are greedy. **** happens.

EpicDude86 · Nov 17, 2009

EpicDude86 said:
There never will be any Communist country, ever, because it can only be achieved in theory. Human beings always **** it up and make it a dictatorship.

obvious Child said:
That's not really the reason it won't work. Communism requires people to sacrifice for the greater good and not be self greed bastards. Clearly, that ain't humanity. Communism is inherently contradictory to human nature, therefore it will never ever ever work in virtually all human societies.

We're saying the same thing, essentially.

Helte/2Skelter · Nov 17, 2009

EpicDude86 said:
Communism in theory is not as far left as Fascism, true, but it is still a left leaning ideology because it requires more GOVERNMENT control than control by the People or Private sector.

Fascism isn't left-wing. On the traditional left-right political political spectrum, people seem to love to jump in without a basis. The traditional basis of the spectrum is attitudes about equality with left-wing be more equality and right-wing being less equality. If you are using the spectrum otherwise, you ought to define a basis.

Communism has no government control nor private sector control.

EpicDude86 · Nov 17, 2009

Helte/2Skelter said:
Fascism isn't left-wing.

In theory, maybe. But as it turns out, Fascism = Big, Big Government

Helte/2Skelter said:
On the traditional left-right political political spectrum,

Which I'm pretty sure was:
Left: more Government control, Right: Less Government control
Hency Authoritarian on the far left, and Anarchy on the far right.

Helte/2Skelter said:
people seem to love to jump in without a basis. The traditional basis of the spectrum is attitudes about equality with left-wing be more equality and right-wing being less equality. If you are using the spectrum otherwise, you ought to define a basis.

Are you referring to the Left-Right Political scale circa the French Revolution?

Helte/2Skelter said:
Communism has no government control nor private sector control.

In theory, but actual "Communism" never quite gets there. I wonder why...

Helte/2Skelter · Nov 17, 2009

EpicDude86 said:
In theory, maybe. But as it turns out, Fascism = Big, Big Government

Equality does not necessarily suggest government size. Fascism can be hard to quantify due to its nationalism, though beyond the nation it is quite right-wing. Government, big, small, and absent, occurs on both the left and right.

Which I'm pretty sure was:
Left: more Government control, Right: Less Government control
Hency Authoritarian on the far left, and Anarchy on the far right.

No, attitudes about equality.

Are you referring to the Left-Right Political scale circa the French Revolution?

That is where the idea has its origin. In that case, those who stood for liberalization were left-wing and the loyalists were right-wing. I think you would agree the right-wing was more authoritarian?

In theory, but actual "Communism" never quite gets there. I wonder why...

It isn't communism unless you get there.

The Prof · Nov 17, 2009

obvious Child said:
Communism requires people to sacrifice for the greater good and not be self greed bastards. Clearly, that ain't humanity.

you don't seem to like people very much, it appears to me

none of my business

more power to you

EpicDude86 · Nov 17, 2009

Helte/2Skelter said:
Equality does not necessarily suggest government size. Fascism can be hard to quantify due to its nationalism, though beyond the nation it is quite right-wing. Government, big, small, and absent, occurs on both the left and right.

No, attitudes about equality.

That is where the idea has its origin. In that case, those who stood for liberalization were left-wing and the loyalists were right-wing. I think you would agree the right-wing was more authoritarian?

It isn't communism unless you get there.

Ahh then we're thinking of two different scales. yes, on the scale you're referring to, fascism wouldn't be left wing. But the modern political scale isn't about equality. Unless you count that square bullcrap...

azura28 · Nov 17, 2009

the makeout hobo said:
Would you say they're more authoritarian than any recent president?

It'll never happen. The state is too blue and Obama is too popular.

Wasn't New Jersey blue?

I know the excuses, that one doesn't matter - bad previous governor - the taxes.....economy......h-m-m-m-m.:coffeepap

Ockham · Nov 17, 2009

azura28 said:
Wasn't New Jersey blue? I know the excuses, that one doesn't matter - bad previous governor - the taxes.....economy......h-m-m-m-m.:coffeepap

It's still blue - we're infiltrated by ACLU members. Christy isn't going to change that.

EpicDude86 · Nov 17, 2009

Ockham said:
It's still blue - we're infiltrated by ACLU members. Christy isn't going to change that.

The ACLU...My Arch Nemeses...

>:(

obvious Child · Nov 18, 2009

EpicDude86 said:
Communism in theory is not as far left as Fascism, true, but it is still a left leaning ideology because it requires more GOVERNMENT control than control by the People or Private sector.

Except that extremely right wing authoritarian regimes require more government as well. Latin America has plenty of history of right wing big ass government. Big government by itself isn't a sign of either.

They did choose it, and then people exploited it because people are greedy. **** happens.

Perhaps they choose it, they just choose not to implement it.

the makeout hobo · Nov 18, 2009

EpicDude86 said:
Communism in theory is not as far left as Fascism, true, but it is still a left leaning ideology because it requires more GOVERNMENT control than control by the People or Private sector.

They did choose it, and then people exploited it because people are greedy. **** happens.

I've said it over and over again... amount of government control is not the defining characteristic of the left/right axis.

the makeout hobo · Nov 18, 2009

azura28 said:
Wasn't New Jersey blue? I know the excuses, that one doesn't matter - bad previous governor - the taxes.....economy......h-m-m-m-m.:coffeepap

And you discount those reasons, why? Remember, in the words of Tip O'Neil, all politics are local.

ptif219 · Nov 18, 2009

the makeout hobo said:
I've said it over and over again... amount of government control is not the defining characteristic of the left/right axis.

Except when you are tripling the deficit.

the makeout hobo · Nov 18, 2009

ptif219 said:
Except when you are tripling the deficit.

Irrelevant in this context.

Also, can I expect that you hate reagan for what he did to the deficit?

ptif219 · Nov 18, 2009

the makeout hobo said:
Irrelevant in this context.

Also, can I expect that you hate reagan for what he did to the deficit?

Yes I also Hate Bush not using the veto to stop spending. But Obama has out done all other presidents so stop trying to avoid what Obama has done.

the makeout hobo · Nov 18, 2009

ptif219 said:
Yes I also Hate Bush not using the veto to stop spending. But Obama has out done all other presidents so stop trying to avoid what Obama has done.

I'm not trying to avoid it, I just am not as concerned as you are. Almost every president in recent history has raised the deficit, don't act like Obama is special here.

Dems at risk of losing Obama's old Senate seat

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