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New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

I am talking about Gulf War ! when we knowingly bombed electrical plants and water treatment facilities that supplied potable water to the citizens that resulted in the deaths of 100,000 civilians, doubled the infant mortality rate, and was one of the reasons for the terrorists retaliation attack on 9/11.


:lol: thank me very much. although i remember we took out some powerplants that powered thier anti aircraft systems. I dont recall hitting any water treatment facilities. Making it up again? Que dailykos or prison planet links? :lol:


My son was there and left the Air Force after 13 years service due to our inhumane treatment of the Iraqi people.

So his concience took him 13 years? It was probably best he separated. Yellow does not look good in uniform. :shrug:
 
:lol: thank me very much. although i remember we took out some powerplants that powered thier anti aircraft systems. I dont recall hitting any water treatment facilities. Making it up again? Que dailykos or prison planet links? :lol:

From the Defense Intelligence Agency ~

""IRAQ WATER TREATMENT VULNERABILITIES"

U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency document of 28 key judgments, from the 2nd day of the Gulf War, available through the Department of Defense GulfLINK declassification project. For the full document, click here. For related documents, see The Secret Behind the Sanctions, How the U.S. Intentionally Destroyed Iraq's Water Supply | The Progressive. Excerpts (emphasis added):

FM: DIA WASHINGTON DC
TO: CENTCOM
INFO: CENTAF; UK STRIKE COMMAND; MARCENT; 18 ABC; NAVCENT; SOCCENT; 7TH CORPS; ANKARA

SUBJECT: IRAQ WATER TREATMMENT VULNERABILITIES (U)
AS OF 18 JAN 91 KEY JUDGMENTS.

1. IRAO DEPENDS ON IMPORTING-SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT-AND SOME CHEMICALS TO PURIFY ITS WATER SUPPLY, MOST OF WHICH IS HEAVILY MINERALIZED AND FREQUENTLY BRACKISH TO SALINE.

2. WITH NO DOMESTIC SOURCES OF BOTH WATER TREATMENT REPLACEMENT PARTS AND SOME ESSENTIAL CHEMICALS, IRAO WILL CONTINUE ATTEMPTS TO CIRCUMVENT UNITED NATIONS SANCTIONS TO IMPORT THESE VITAL COMMODITIES.

3. FAILING TO SECURE SUPPLIES WILL RESULT IN A SHORTAGE OF PURE DRINKING WATER FOR MUCH OF THE POPULATION. THIS COULD LEAD TO INCREASED INCIDENCES, IF NOT EPIDEMICS, OF DISEASE....
...

28. THE ENTIRE IRAOI WATER TREATMENT SYSTEM WILL NOT COLLAPSE PRECIPITOUSLY.... FULL DEGRADATION OF THE WATER TREATMENT SYSTEM PROBABLY WILL TAKE AT LEAST ANOTHER 6 MONTHS."

"Articles from USAF Air & Space Power Journal (1995, 2001)

"Bombing Dual-Use Targets: Legal, Ethical, and Doctrinal Perspectives" by Kenneth R. Rizer, Air & Space Power Chronicles, May 1, 2001, Bombing Dual-Use Targets: Legal, Ethical, and Doctrinal Perspectives.

"The Enemy as a System" by Colonel John A. Warden III, USAF, published in Airpower Journal, Spring 1995, The Enemy as a System.

Air & Space Power Journal is a publication of the United States Air Force (USAF) and focuses on the operational level of war and strategy/policy issues. Air & Space Power Chronicles is a related forum with a wider focus.

Excerpt from Rizer's "Bombing of Dual-Use Targets":

"A key example of such dual-use targeting was the destruction of Iraqi electrical power facilities in Desert Storm. While crippling Iraq's military command and control capability, destruction of these facilities shut down water purification and sewage treatment plants. As a result, epidemics of gastroenteritis, cholera, and typhoid broke out, leading to perhaps as many as 100,000 civilian deaths and a doubling of the infant mortality rate."

Citizens Concerned for the People of Iraq


So his concience took him 13 years? It was probably best he separated. Yellow does not look good in uniform. :shrug:

Before Desert Storm he had not been asked to support the killing of innocent civilians. He did not agree to immoral acts when he signed up. It makes us no different than the terrorist who also justify the killing of innocent civilians.
 
I am talking about Gulf War ! when we knowingly bombed electrical plants and water treatment facilities that supplied potable water to the citizens that resulted in the deaths of 100,000 civilians, doubled the infant mortality rate, and was one of the reasons for the terrorists retaliation attack on 9/11.

My son was there and left the Air Force after 13 years service due to our inhumane treatment of the Iraqi people.

I'm sorry Catawba, but I simply don't believe you. I think there have been members of the military--a tiny percentage--who have left the service for matters of conscience of one sort or another. But I do not believe a single one so far is reported to have left because of any 'inhumane treatment of the Iraqi people' by the US military. (This is apart from the very few instances of soldier misconduct, and every single one of those has been prosecuted.)

Among the many friends and loved ones that I personally have and have had serving over there, every one to a man or woman reports the very compassionate and very humanitarian policy and procedures of the U.S. military and the very real gratitude of most of the Iraqi people.

And many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of man hours have now been devoted to rebuilding infrastructure, restoring power and water supplies, and creating those where none previously existed. They have built and restored hospitals and schools and roads and ended the extreme hunger and medical neglect suffered by millions under Saddam's rule. When he diverted humanitarian cash and resources to his own pleasures and to pay off his buddies, it is estimated that at least 50,000 Iraqis starved or died from lack of medical attention, and most of those were children. I suppose you think we should have just kept the sanctions in place for another 12 years and killed off 50,000 more kids?

If you want to know what inhumane treatment of the Iraqi people looks like, read the first chapter or so of Bill Sammon's book "Misunderestimated". Or any other work by a true journalist. And then come back and tell me how 'inhumane' the USA has been to the Iraqis.

Knowing what we know now, I don't know how I would have voted to invade or not invade Iraq this last go round. The USA may be worse off, but I am convinced that presently the Iraqi people are NOT worse off because we did.
 
Of course not. Just our attack that resulted in 100,000 Iraqi civilian deaths was not justified.

The ends do not justify the means, no matter what flag you are flying.

I believe we should have gone in well before we did. Hussein did a lot of nasties - trust that his own people did not hang him for nothing.

He invaded and brutalized Kuwait, and was responsible for training and arming many terrorists, who he harbored in Iraq before and after 9/11.

Here's a little read for you to get an idea of just how bad the iraqis needed to be liberated from the tyranny they were under - it was written before we went in, and we all know it turned out to be much worse than they ever thought when many, many - too many - mass graves and tourture facilities were discovered:

"Mr. Hussein's has been a tale of terror that scholars have compared to that of Stalin, whom the Iraqi leader is said to revere, even if his own brutalities have played out on a small scale. Stalin killed 20 million of his own people, historians have concluded. Even on a proportional basis, his crimes far surpass Mr. Hussein's, but figures of a million dead Iraqis, in war and through terror, may not be far from the mark, in a country of 22 million people.

Where the comparison seems closest is in the regime's mercilessly sadistic character. Iraq has its gulag of prisons, dungeons and torture chambers — some of them acknowledged, like Abu Ghraib, and as many more disguised as hotels, sports centers and other innocent-sounding places. It has its overlapping secret-police agencies, and its culture of betrayal, with family members denouncing each other, and offices and factories becoming hives of perfidy.

"Enemies of the state" are eliminated, and their spouses, adult children and even cousins are often tortured and killed along with them.

Mr. Hussein even uses Stalinist maxims, including what an Iraqi defector identified as one of the dictator's favorites: "If there is a person, then there is a problem. If there is no person, then there is no problem."

There are rituals to make the end as terrible as possible, not only for the victims but for those who survive. After seizing power in July 1979, Mr. Hussein handed weapons to surviving members of the ruling elite, then joined them in personally executing 22 comrades who had dared to oppose his ascent.

The terror is self-compounding, with the state's power reinforced by stories that relatives of the victims pale to tell — of fingernail-extracting, eye-gouging, genital-shocking and bucket-drowning. Secret police rape prisoners' wives and daughters to force confessions and denunciations. There are assassinations, in Iraq and abroad, and, ultimately, the gallows, the firing squads and the pistol shots to the head.

DOING the arithmetic is an imprecise venture. The largest number of deaths attributable to Mr. Hussein's regime resulted from the war between Iraq and Iran between 1980 and 1988, which was launched by Mr. Hussein. Iraq says its own toll was 500,000, and Iran's reckoning ranges upward of 300,000. Then there are the casualties in the wake of Iraq's 1990 occupation of Kuwait. Iraq's official toll from American bombing in that war is 100,000 — surely a gross exaggeration — but nobody contests that thousands of Iraqi soldiers and civilians were killed in the American campaign to oust Mr. Hussein's forces from Kuwait. In addition, 1,000 Kuwaitis died during the fighting and occupation in their country.

Casualties from Iraq's gulag are harder to estimate. Accounts collected by Western human rights groups from Iraqi émigrés and defectors have suggested that the number of those who have "disappeared" into the hands of the secret police, never to be heard from again, could be 200,000. As long as Mr. Hussein remains in power, figures like these will be uncheckable, but the huge toll is palpable nonetheless.

Just as in Stalin's Russia, the machinery of death is mostly invisible, except for the effects it works on those brushed by it — in the loss of relatives and friends, and in the universal terror that others have of falling into the abyss. If anybody wants to know what terror looks like, its face is visible every day on every street of Iraq.

"Minders," the men who watch visiting reporters day and night, are supposedly drawn from among the regime's harder men. But even they break down, hands shaking, eyes brimming, voices desperate, when reporters ask ordinary Iraqis edgy questions about Mr. Hussein.

"You have killed me, and killed my family," one minder said after a photographer for The New York Times made unauthorized photographs of an exhibition of statues of the Iraqi dictator during a November visit to Baghdad's College of Fine Arts. In recent years, the inexorable nature of Iraq's horrors have been demonstrated by new campaigns bearing the special hallmark of Mr. Hussein. In 1999, a complaint about prison overcrowding led to an instruction from the Iraqi leader for a "prison cleansing" drive. This resulted, according to human rights groups, in hundreds, and possibly thousands, of executions.

Using a satanic arithmetic, prison governors worked out how many prisoners would have to be hanged to bring the numbers down to stipulated levels, even taking into account the time remaining in the inmates' sentences. As 20 and 30 prisoners at a time were executed at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere, warders trailed through cities like Baghdad, "selling" exemption from execution to shocked families, according to people in Iraq who said they had spoken to relatives of those involved. Bribes of money, furniture, cars and even property titles brought only temporary stays.

MORE recently, according to Iraqis who fled to Jordan and other neighboring countries, scores of women have been executed under a new twist in a "return to faith" campaign proclaimed by Mr. Hussein. Aimed at bolstering his support across the Islamic world, the campaign led early on to a ban on drinking alcohol in public. Then, some time in the last two years, it widened to include the public killing of accused prostitutes.

Often, the executions have been carried out by the Fedayeen Saddam, a paramilitary group headed by Mr. Hussein's oldest son, 38-year-old Uday. These men, masked and clad in black, make the women kneel in busy city squares, along crowded sidewalks, or in neighborhood plots, then behead them with swords. The families of some victims have claimed they were innocent of any crime save that of criticizing Mr. Hussein."
 
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Knowing what we know now, I don't know how I would have voted to invade or not invade Iraq this last go round. The USA may be worse off, but I am convinced that presently the Iraqi people are NOT worse off because we did.

Easy for you to say. Your country was not invaded and occupied. If our puppet government there cannot stand against its own people without our continued occupation, what exactly is it we won worth tens of thousands of civilian deaths brought about by our invasion?

Stop loss orders would not have used for so many troops if there were more support for the war on terror.
 
I believe we should have gone in well before we did. Hussein did a lot of nasties - trust that his own people did not hang him for nothing.

He was at his murderous worst when we supported him and Rumsfeld was over shaking hands with him. Oh but that was when he still allowed US oil in Iraq. ;)

He invaded and brutalized Kuwait,

After Kuwait had drilled into their oil fields, no concern of ours except to the threat of our oil spigots in Kuwait.

and was responsible for training and arming many terrorists, who he harbored in Iraq before and after 9/11.

The Pentagon determined their was no al-Qaeda/Iraq connection.

Here's a little read for you to get an idea of just how bad the iraqis needed to be liberated from the tyranny they were under - it was written before we went in, and we all know it turned out to be much worse than they ever thought when many, many - too many - mass graves and tourture facilities were discovered:

Had nothing to do with our invasion and occupation since that behavior was not a problem for us when our oil companies were allowed there.

DOING the arithmetic is an imprecise venture. The largest number of deaths attributable to Mr. Hussein's regime resulted from the war between Iraq and Iran between 1980 and 1988, which was launched by Mr. Hussein. Iraq says its own toll was 500,000, and Iran's reckoning ranges upward of 300,000. Then there are the casualties in the wake of Iraq's 1990 occupation of Kuwait. Iraq's official toll from American bombing in that war is 100,000 — surely a gross exaggeration — but nobody contests that thousands of Iraqi soldiers and civilians were killed in the American campaign to oust Mr. Hussein's forces from Kuwait. In addition, 1,000 Kuwaitis died during the fighting and occupation in their country.

How much oil do you think those deaths are worth? What is the proper blood for oil ratio?
 
Easy for you to say. Your country was not invaded and occupied.


See, this is the problem with arguing with liberals. Generally you are all over the place here. You come up with a 100K number, and when you know you are about to be called on using faulty Lancet numbers to form your outrageous claim, then you say 'Well, I wasn't talking about now, I was talking about Gulf I'.

In Gulf I, although we had some units in country, we were there to liberate Kuwait, and we succeeded. Even though we had forces that knew where Saddam, and his murderous sons were, and were biting at the chance to take them out, they were told to back off. I know because I had one of my best friends in the 101st, begging his commander to let them go and get him.

We stuck to U.N. mandates just like you libs always want, and sold out the Iraqi people that stood up to Saddam watching them be slaughtered while we left. But that's all good with libs like you isn't it? Because Saddam slaughtering his people, was our fault too right?


If our puppet government there cannot stand against its own people without our continued occupation, what exactly is it we won worth tens of thousands of civilian deaths brought about by our invasion?


In reading your words I am left wondering who you support? are you ba'athist? A fundamental non understanding of how conventional warfare works is both apparent, and sad in your postings.


Stop loss orders would not have used for so many troops if there were more support for the war on terror.

Yes, liberals were very good at propaganda aimed at weakening our defenses....You should be proud that you may the the "enemy within" that so many talk about over the centuries that brings down great countries like ours.


j-mac
 
How much oil do you think those deaths are worth? What is the proper blood for oil ratio?


Answer to your first question: All of it - each and every drop.

Answer to your second question: Whatever it takes.


Now let me explain;

First, we had to take the battles to them. They struck one blow too many with 9/11. They declared war against us - we did not declare war against them, and we still haven't - but if we do, we would roll like nobody's business.

We went into Afghanistan to go after Al Qaeda and the Taliban - quite a few members of which fled to Iraq and Pakistan where we are battling them.

Hussein took in a lot of the Al Qaeda, harbored them, allowed them to continue training, and armed and supported them finacially. Hussein was also paying family members of suicide bombers so suicide bombers would walk into markets, restaurants, wherever, and bring terror to many places and people.

On top of this he bruatized Kuwait and his own people.

Enough is enough - he had to go for the good of Iraqis and the world.

Second, the oil fields in southern Iraq are said to have more oil than in Saudi Arabia. Now that we are there we must make sure that the oil there falls into the hands of the people of Iraq and not Iran - and that is what we are doing - whatever it takes.

Geez - Saudi Arabia has oil, why do you suppose we don't take it from them?
Because that is not what we do. We buy or oil. We buy it on the open market, and mainly from OPEC.

The BS line that we are in war to take oil is retarded. If that were the case we wouldn't be buying it from OPEC anymore. Besides, we have been paying higher prices since we went in to take the battle to those who declared war against us, so like I said - it is retarded to think we are battling Islamo-Nazism for oil for ourslves.

Saudi Arabia has even been living amongst the Islamic Nazis - they have been targeted too - they hate it - and they welcome the help from the United States who is helping to bring stability to the region - and we are not alone - our allies, from Australia through Europe to Canada, have been helping too - sure, they walk on eggshells because of fear of suicide bombers going off in their markets too, but they know the real of it and are all for stomping out those who have declared war on the civilized world.

If it were the case that we were in there for oil, our allies, to include Saudia Arabia, Pakistan and Kuwait would not be behind us - but they are. Even Russia, China and India know we are right on this one - everybody but the Islamo-Nazis know we are right - and that is because they are wrong - good people of the world can live with diversity.
 
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DAVID GREGORY, of all people (nbc's mtp has been by far the friendliest to the white house of all the sunday talks):

gregory, questioning 4 senators, this morning, difi, jiltin joe lieberman, whip durbin and kb hutchinson (who might as well not have been there):

gregory premises thus: charles krauthammer writes, what if ksm is found not guilty, everyone knows he won't walk, ag holder has said so

gregory queries: if the result of the trial is "presupposed," doesn't that make this a "show trial," just politics, everyone knows ksm will not be allowed to walk?

wow, even nbc knows

the answers to gregory's inquiry were not at all revealing of anything new

nbc presuming something like ksm is a show trial is a lot like broder blurting his view that the apologist is a "ditherer" when it comes to afghanistan

broder also broadsided---obamacare is a "budget buster"

everyone knows
 
obama/holder broadcast to the crazies of the world---if you attack american military and you are captured, you will be brought before a military tribunal

if, on the other hand, you assassinate little girls and their grammas in a lower east side pizza parlor, you will be beneficiary of all the rights and privileges enjoyed by oj and michael jackson
 
See, this is the problem with arguing with liberals. Generally you are all over the place here....

He has a weak spot that can't be hidden by glib sophistry. Focus on it and force him on to defense. His weakness is that everything he condemns is now happening, and will continue to happen, under the authority of Barack Obama. He loves Obama. That forces him into a fundamentally inconsistent position. To the extent he castigates current America, he sets up Obama for a beating. Make him talk about Obama's policies.
 
yes, make them talk about obama's policies
 
They should ivestigate all their connections to see if the CIA lured these willing attackers onto the planes that may have been remotely operated to control hitting precise targets?

Here we go...
 
See, this is the problem with arguing with liberals. Generally you are all over the place here. You come up with a 100K number, and when you know you are about to be called on using faulty Lancet numbers to form your outrageous claim, then you say 'Well, I wasn't talking about now, I was talking about Gulf I'.

The numbers I quoted were from Iraq Body Count that you thought were from Lancet.

In Gulf I, although we had some units in country, we were there to liberate Kuwait, and we succeeded.

We were there to protect our oil spigots, and we succeeded.

Even though we had forces that knew where Saddam, and his murderous sons were, and were biting at the chance to take them out, they were told to back off. I know because I had one of my best friends in the 101st, begging his commander to let them go and get him.

Right because we bombed them back a century, which is how long it would be before they could threaten our spigots in Kuwait again. Not to mention the 100,000 innocent civilians we killed.

We stuck to U.N. mandates just like you libs always want, and sold out the Iraqi people that stood up to Saddam watching them be slaughtered while we left. But that's all good with libs like you isn't it? Because Saddam slaughtering his people, was our fault too right?

We were his ally when he was at his murderous worst. But that was before he kicked the US oil companies out of Iraq.

In reading your words I am left wondering who you support? are you ba'athist? A fundamental non understanding of how conventional warfare works is both apparent, and sad in your postings.

I am a humanist, I oppose terrorist actions no matter the flag. I don't believe that the ends justify the means like the Islamic and Christian extremists believe.

Yes, liberals were very good at propaganda aimed at weakening our defenses....You should be proud that you may the the "enemy within" that so many talk about over the centuries that brings down great countries like ours.

That's right from Hermann Goering's playbook ~ "the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."
 
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That's right from Hermann Goering's playbook ~ "the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

Sure, we need oil, and that is why we pay for oil - we didn't help Kuwait for oil - we helped Kuwait for the same reasons we helped many other countries when we helped free the world from Hilter, Mussolini and Hirohito - and it's what we do best, so get use to it.

What's up with you always being so eager to defend scum like Hussein for anyway?

No need to answer - there is no excuse for such retardedness.

Anywho - Here's a bit on your old buddy:

Baghdad's Saddam Hussein
(November 20, 2002) Saddam Hussein is a dictator who leads a secular, single-party government in an Islamic country. He has a cruel and often bloody past and is largely isolated from the world community.

Saddam Hussein has often invoked the name and protection of Allah, even though he has spurned and often attacked Islam in the past. The dark-haired, mustached and portly man is feared by those ruled by him as well as his own family. Field Marshall Saddam Hussein al-Tikriti is President and Head of State, the Anointed One, Glorious Leader, Direct Descendant of the Prophet, Chairman of its Revolutionary Command Council, Field Marshal of its armies, doctor of its laws, and Great Uncle to all its peoples. Saddam Hussein has the dubious distinction of being the world's best known and most hated Arab leader. And in a region where despotic rule is the norm, he is more feared by his own people than any other head of state. Saddam has created a personality cult to make himself all things to all Iraqis.

Then again, Saddam Hussein admits that he is an admirer of Joseph Stalin, one of the most tyrannical leaders in history. His library is full of books about Stalin. And like Stalin, Saddam uses thugs and a feared security service to obtain his objectives. He had his security agents trained in Eastern Europe, particularly East Germany. He understands the value of state terror and has constructed an elaborate and massive police state apparatus with as many as 100,000 agents and paramilitary troops which effectively neutralizes all possibility of political opposition through fear.

Saddam has made himself the focus of loyalty. His images in costumed heroic poses are all over the country. The Iraqi media is focused on tributes for the Glorious Leader. His birthday is designated a national holiday. School children memorize poems and songs that worship Saddam. There is no such thing as too much when it comes to personality cults.

Saddam was born on April 28, 1937 on the outskirts of Tikrit, where he finished primary school. He eventually completed high school at the age of 24. He would later try to become an army officer but was ejected by the Baghdad Military Academy because of poor grades. According to a former personal secretary, Saddam's step father abused him and sent the young boy to steal chicken and sheep to be sold. Saddam Hussein of Iraq began his political career as an assassin. He committed his first political murder while still in his teens. A member of the underground Ba'ath Party, he took part in the attempted assassination of the Iraqi president, Abdul-Karim Kassim in 1959. When that failed, he went into exile in Egypt. There he gained a reputation for fighting in restaurants and for settling political arguments with a knife in his hand. His image was defined by those who knew him as a shaqawah, a local term denoting a sort of bully - a man to be feared.


For your 14 years of detenion... A small gift... By Zep, for International Review.
When the Ba'athists (Arab Ba'ath Socialist Party) took power in Iraq, Saddam returned from his Egyptian exile and worked his way up through the organization. He eventually became the most trusted lieutenant of the party leader, Hassam Ahmad Al-Bakr, whom Saddam repaid by forcing him into retirement. Upon taking power in 1979, his first act was to purge the party leadership. Twenty-two of the highest-ranking government, military and party officials were publicly denounced by Saddam, who had their trials and executions filmed for public viewing. He redoubled his efforts to rid his party and army of officials whose loyalty he questioned.
Saddam has built up a ruthless secret police, which he has turned on political and ethnic minorities, notably the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs. He has closed the Islamic teaching centers of Iraq and has replaced Islamic laws with his own. To Saddam, the glory of Iraq lies not in its Islamic caliphate, but its days as the center of the pagan Babylonian empire. While ignoring Islamic shrines, for example, he has lavished great wealth on reconstructing the Hanging Gardens of Babylon's warrior king, Nubuchadnezzar.

Human Rights Watch, reporting on the severity of Saddam's decrees, the number of people victimized by them, and given the history of a fundamental lack of respect for human rights in Saddam's Iraq, wrote in 1995, "Since the Arab Ba'ath Socialist Party came to power in 1968, the Iraqi government has used terror through various levels of police, military and intelligence agencies to control and intimidate Iraqis. Two decades of oppression against Iraq's Kurds culminated in 1988 with a campaign of genocide, including the use of chemical weapons attacks, against Kurdish civilians. The Ba'athist Sunni Muslim minority has repressed the Shi'a population, including the Marsh Arabs in the south. After the Gulf War, the use of state terror to control the population intensified. For example, thousands of Marsh Arabs have fled to Iran because Iraq has drained the marsh regions and sent in the military with tanks to shell and burn villages."

Until his invasion of Kuwait, Saddam paid very little attention to Islam. He has, however, often used Islam as a justification for his actions. He made the pilgrimage to Mecca and had his picture taken kissing the black stone. He then set himself up as a protector of Islam, even though his invasion of Kuwait broke many of its laws. He is also accused of idolatry for causing his likeness to be so blatantly displayed throughout Iraq. But not even Iran's ayatollahs dared to compete with the Prophet and his spiritual successors by hanging their own portraits in mosques as Saddam does. And it was following the invasion of Kuwait when he started referring to himself as a direct descendant of the Prophet.

Saddam's true feelings toward Islam can be seen from just two past actions. He once sent two mullahs to negotiate in his name with the Kurdish leaders. He had them equipped with hidden tape recorders to record the conversation. However, the recorders were instead packed with plastic explosives, which were detonated by radio. The incident known as the case of the "exploding mullahs" took the lives of the two clergymen and several Kurdish politicians. In a similar case of black humor, when he ordered the execution of one of his generals , he signed the order with the Islamic phrase, "In the name of Allah, the merciful and the compassionate."

Saddam, a general in disguise.
Saddam has accumulated all the power of the state unto himself and jealously murders anyone whom he suspects could become a rival. He would never step down, even when the good of the country is at stake. During his eight-year war (1980-88) with Iran, he repeatedly refused to resign, an act that Iran said would immediately bring about a cease-fire. When a cabinet minister suggested that he resign, at least temporarily, that minister was shot, some say by Saddam himself. The war dragged on, at a cost of 150,000 to 340,000 Iraqi and 450,000 to 730,000 Iranians dead. He did not hesitate to use chemical weapons against Iranian forces in the Iran-Iraq war, and against Iraq's Kurdish population in 1987-88. Approximately 281 villages and sites including the town of Halabja on March 16, 1988 were attacked with chemical weapons. More than 25,000 people were killed immediately and up to 250,000 people exposed to these weapons.

To maintain his power structure, Saddam relies on two pillars of support, his family from his home town of Takriti, north of Baghdad, and fellow revolutionaries who have been with him for years and who stand and fall with him. Saddam Hussein remains largely isolated from his people, keeping the company of a diminishing circle of trusted advisors.

The outbreak of war in the Gulf in 1991 following the occupation of Kuwait, was the responsibility of one man, Saddam Hussein. He has often put his own glory ahead of his faith and the well-being of his people over the years. The destruction of Kuwait in 1990-91 resulted in 1,000 Kuwaitis being killed and hundreds kidnapped and brought to Iraq. There are up to 605 missing. Most are Kuwaitis, but they also include citizens of nine other nations. They are not just young men, but also women, mothers of young children, young people and very old people. The number of Kuwaiti prisoners represent about 1 per cent of the small population of Kuwait which means that there is hardly a citizen of Kuwait who has not had a family member or friend disappear into the Iraqi prison system. Shortly after Saddam declared Kuwait the 19th province of Iraq, he installed Ali Hassan Al Majid, another cousin, as governor of the new province. As provincial governor in northern Iraq in 1988, Al Majid (nicknamed Chemical Ali) had organized the chemical weapons assault on the Kurds.

While occupying Kuwait, Kuwaiti citizens were not the only victims. Iraq's brutality toward Egyptians and other foreigners trapped in Iraq and Kuwait made further enemies. The Iraqis' savage treatment of Egyptians became a notably sore point. Iraq sent more than 80 Egyptian corpses home following the invasion of Kuwait. The remains showed the effects of bullet wounds, crushed skulls, severe bleeding, electric shock, and heart and lung failure. Iraq attributed the deaths to accidents. Egyptians believed that the deaths were the result of Iraqi brutality. Then again, during 1990, at least 995 bodies of Egyptians were sent from Iraq to Cairo. Egypt's Interior Minister, Mohammed Abdel-Halim Moussa, said that 600 of those 995 bodies had "bullet wounds and crushed skulls."

Saddam then directed the 1991 bloody suppression of the Kurdish and Shi'a insurgencies in northern and southern Iraq with at least 30,000 to 60,000 killed. He then ordered the destruction of southern marshes to extinguish the Shi'a insurgency.

Some years ago a European interviewer nervously quoted reports that the Baghdad authorities might, on occasions, have tortured and perhaps even killed opponents of the regime. Was this true? Saddam Hussein was not offended. Rather, he seemed surprised by the naiveté of the question. "Of course," he replied. "What do you expect if they oppose the regime?"

Saddam still insists that the 1991 Gulf War, which he famously described as the Mother-of-All-Battles, ended in victory for Iraq. And he still brags that Iraq can shrug off any military attack. The Iraqi people have no choice but to nod in agreement. So it will continue until the moment comes for pretentious slogans to be replaced by a brief epitaph to one of the most infamous dictators of the century. For the overwhelming majority of Iraqis and other victims of his atrocities, that moment cannot come too soon.

But if past history can serve as a guide, in regard to his future behavior, one can expect that he will use all of his resources to exact revenge against all those that defeated him in the past and who threaten him today. "Bullet wounds and crushed skulls…. Exploding mullahs… Chemical weapons attacks against Iranians and Iraqis…" Is he a dictator to be trusted by the international community? As Saddam Hussein might reply, "What do you expect if they oppose the regime."
 
Sure, we need oil, and that is why we pay for oil

Including the cost of innocent civilian's blood through the Middle East wars to insure our spigots cannot be turned off or sabotaged.

You never did give me your blood for oil formula. How many innocent civilians do you think our oil under their sand is worth?
 
Including the cost of innocent civilian's blood through the Middle East wars to insure our spigots cannot be turned off or sabotaged.

You never did give me your blood for oil formula. How many innocent civilians do you think our oil under their sand is worth?

Try 6 billion civilians.

The Exxon/Cheney/Bush/Halliburton/Obama war machine will stop at nothing.

We just HAVE to keep those SUVs running in the name of FREEDOM.
:rofl
 
Including the cost of innocent civilian's blood through the Middle East wars to insure our spigots cannot be turned off or sabotaged.

You never did give me your blood for oil formula. How many innocent civilians do you think our oil under their sand is worth?

Screw you and the innocent civillian bit - those asswipes strike civillians and then hide behind civillians, and buttwipes like you try to use it like crybaby lying fags.

SHUTUP ALREADY! IT'S REALLY PATHETIC.

You are either one of those Islamic Nazi nutballs spinning your trash or you are a liberal loonitic -either way you are retarded - not for the civil world, especially seeing the danger in your ways.

If the U. S. was that hardup for oil we would find alternatives, and then where would those countries be if they couldn't sell it to us?

As it is, they have nothing else to offer....................

Most of those country's leaders blame the U. S. for their own situation, and if the U. S. wasn't sending money for oil their way, their situation would be much worse - because they suck at management, blame the U. S.

They would be in worse dire straits, and what are people like you to do then, say we are in it for sand?

This country can put the oil-holding world down to nothing in a matter of 5, 10, maybe 15 years to total nothing - making oil obsolete altogether, if we wished to.

We have lots of oil reserves and we certainly can build nuke plants.

We have the brains and resources, and if we put it to work............ consider it done.

U. S. buying oil from the Middle East can end real quick.

It is not what we are about - we want good nations, the nations of the Middle East, the people of the Middle East, to prosper first and add to the goodness of our world.

If people choose to be intolerrant of others, then those people will go by way of Hiltler's Nazism - obsolete - null and void - bad history and a disgrace to their people.

Time will put people like you in the same league as those who advocated for Hitler and talked down about the ones who saw the writing on the wall - it's too bad that some people listened to nutjobs like you, and intervention came much later than it should have - but, despite when it comes - trust it will come, because America and our allies are going to make sure our world is free of intolerable tyranny.
 
Screw you and the innocent civillian bit -

Our killing of 100,000 innocent civilians in Iraq is one of the reasons the terrorists killed 3,000 of ours. See how that works!

Our chickens came home to roost!


If the U. S. was that hardup for oil we would find alternatives, and then where would those countries be if they couldn't sell it to us?

We were warned to do that 35 years ago, but apparently we have not evolved to a point where we understand that we shouldn't **** in our house so to speak. China is fast overtaking the US in demand for oil. They would simply sell to China and other countries. They do not need us.

We have lots of oil reserves and we certainly can build nuke plants.

Bull****, we haven't been able to produce enough of our own oil to meet our needs since the 70's and we were too stupid to begin to develop renewable sources when we were warned 35 years ago.


We have the brains and resources, and if we put it to work............ consider it done.

You would think so but the last 35 years of using Middle East wars instead of developing a real energy plan would indicate not.

U. S. buying oil from the Middle East can end real quick.

Nothing would make me happier! Let's do it! I'm with you there! :)

It is not what we are about - we want good nations, the nations of the Middle East, the people of the Middle East, to prosper first and add to the goodness of our world.


:rofl Do you even believe the BS you just spouted!


If people choose to be intolerrant of others, then those people will go by way of Hiltler's Nazism - obsolete - null and void - bad history and a disgrace to their people.

Yep, that is why I suggest we start acting in a more moral fashion than the terrorists.

our allies are going to make sure our world is free of intolerable tyranny.

That would be very bad news for America if they do!
 
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Moderator's Warning:
Cease the personal attacks immediately.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mmBrIEQzLA&feature=related"]YouTube- Tom Jones - It's not unusual[/ame]
 
That would be very bad news for America if they do!

Funny how you are so quick to point your crooked finger at the U. S. while never saying a word about the many, many innocent lives blown up in markets, restaurants, hotels, clubs, and anywhere they can inflict their crimes on innocent civillians - and then they hide behind innocent civillians so people like you can point your crooked finger when we hit any civillians while trying to get them for their dirty deeds - the world knows this - the world knows who is right and who is wrong - and the wrong WILL be righted - so you waist your time with your false blame.

And, yes - I believe America wants good nations, the nations of the Middle East, the people of the Middle East, to prosper and add to the goodness of our world - and that is because common sense tells us that a better world for them is also a better world for us - trust that we will make it be a better world in the end. Only time stands between getting it done. The crooked fingers of the world are not going to have any effect - they don't here, and they won't in the global scheme of things - and that is because the truth always pervails and we know your lame game.

LOL - your crooked finger isn't even a "nice try". It's a piss poor attempt.
 
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