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D.C. Sniper John Allen Muhammad Is Executed in Virginia

I was born and raised in Va, so I understand.
 
Does anyone here NOT believe in the death penalty?
 
And there's this AWESOME steakhouse in Lynchburg...I forget what it's called....haven't been in ages...something like the Tea Room or something? OOhhh God it's so gooooood though.

The Millstone Tea Room. It's awesome.

Does anyone here NOT believe in the death penalty?

I do. I actually do believe that some people deserve to die and I believe that the DC sniper was one of them. But, I don't believe that as a society we've proven that we're capable of applying it accurately or fairly. A black person is like 20 times more likely to get the death penalty for the same crime as a white person, somebody with a low IQ is way more likely to get the death penalty than a person with an average IQ, etc. And we've put a lot of innocent people on death row over the years that were later proven to have been innocent. Unless we can somehow sort those problems out, I will oppose it.
 
The Millstone Tea Room. It's awesome.



I do. I actually do believe that some people deserve to die and I believe that the DC sniper was one of them. But, I don't believe that as a society we've proven that we're capable of applying it accurately or fairly. A black person is like 20 times more likely to get the death penalty for the same crime as a white person, somebody with a low IQ is way more likely to get the death penalty than a person with an average IQ, etc. And we've put a lot of innocent people on death row over the years that were later proven to have been innocent. Unless we can somehow sort those problems out, I will oppose it.

So how do we keep black people from committing more murders, make dumb murderers, smarter, and innocent people......how many innocent people have been put to death exactly?:confused:
 
So how do we keep black people from committing more murders, make dumb murderers, smarter, and innocent people......how many innocent people have been put to death exactly?:confused:

What are you talking about?
 
A Stanford University study revealed "that killers of Whites (whether the killers are black or white) are more likely to get sentenced to death than killers of black people (whether the killers are black or white). But Blacks who kill Whites were less likely to receive death sentences than were Whites who killed Whites."

..........
 
A Stanford University study revealed "that killers of Whites (whether the killers are black or white) are more likely to get sentenced to death than killers of black people (whether the killers are black or white). But Blacks who kill Whites were less likely to receive death sentences than were Whites who killed Whites."

..........

So you consider those two things to be arguments in favor of the position that the death penalty is fairly applied?
 
So you consider those two things to be arguments in favor of the position that the death penalty is fairly applied?

I do, killers are killed, no matter the color of their skin.
 
I do, killers are killed, no matter the color of their skin.

You just said the opposite. You said killers of white people get the death penalty more often than killers of black people and that white killers of white people get the death penalty more than black killers of white people... Now you're reversing your position to argue that it is applied without regard to the color of somebody's skin?
 
i just wonder why you care. it's what they are passionate about, and hurts who?

People like that make everyone else who is into those things look bad. Its like how Peta and A.L.F. makes the animal rights activist look like morons or nuts or how code pink and Berkly California makes anti-war nuts look like anti-military and anti-American.
 
So you consider those two things to be arguments in favor of the position that the death penalty is fairly applied?

Regardless of how you look at these crap studies, It is fairly applied. But as always someone has to be Politically Correct and find out if we're sentences just as many black people as white people to serve the same sentences...Problem with that is, the amount of offenders are disproportionate. But that in itself isn't a Politically Correct enough answer so there MUST be a disproportionate amount of arrest of black people than white people for crimes. And the PC cycle perpetuates itself...And people wonder why we're still very culturally charged and divided...
 
People like that make everyone else who is into those things look bad. Its like how Peta and A.L.F. makes the animal rights activist look like morons or nuts or how code pink and Berkly California makes anti-war nuts look like anti-military and anti-American.

Did someone say Code Pink?
epicdude86-albums-motivationals-picture1137-they-arent-crazy-right-wingers-imagine.jpg
 
Regardless of how you look at these crap studies, It is fairly applied.

On what evidence do you draw that conclusion?

But as always someone has to be Politically Correct and find out if we're sentences just as many black people as white people to serve the same sentences...Problem with that is, the amount of offenders are disproportionate. But that in itself isn't a Politically Correct enough answer so there MUST be a disproportionate amount of arrest of black people than white people for crimes. And the PC cycle perpetuates itself...And people wonder why we're still very culturally charged and divided...

No, no, I'm not saying "more black people get the death penalty", I'm saying a much higher percentage of black people convicted of murder get the death penalty.
 
On what evidence do you draw that conclusion?

You can't expect to do a "fair" and "balanced" scientific study if one of your dependent variables is race, especially in dealing with prison population and the death penalty, and which race did the perpetrating and which was the victim.

No, no, I'm not saying "more black people get the death penalty", I'm saying a much higher percentage of black people convicted of murder get the death penalty.

I know you're not saying more black people do. Well there's a reason for that and it's because blacks are disproportionately represented in the system. Not because they're black but because that's just who is committing more crimes. **** happens and sometimes we don't like how it looks. It's lopsided due to inner-city violence and a different culture among many black communities. These factors are just a few though that is attributed to higher rates of these crimes, and ultimately higher arrest rates. Sad but true. Then again, if you go to an area where there isn't a large black population and you'll find a ton of non-black ethnicity in prison. Imagine that. You have to look at populations vs prison populations, who's being sent where, what kind of 'peers' were on their jury and a slew of other minuscule seeming details to really find the truth...and that truth is: the system works as best as a broken system can.
 
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You can't expect to do a "fair" and "balanced" scientific study if one of your dependent variables is race, especially in dealing with prison population and the death penalty, and which race did the perpetrating and which was the victim.

No I'm asking what evidence you have for the claim that it is fairly applied. If we just have some statistics to weigh against no evidence, even if the statistics might potentially be innaccurate, that's still better than no evidence at all.

I know you're not saying more black people do. Well there's a reason for that and it's because blacks are disproportionately represented in the system. Not because they're black but because that's just who is committing more crimes.

About 2/3 of crimes in the country are committed by whites. Roughtly in line with the portion of the country that is white. Statistically blacks do commit slightly more crime per capita, but way less total.

But, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the PERCENTAGE of people convicted who are then given the death penalty is way higher amongst blacks than whites. So how many crimes they commit isn't part of that equation.
 
No I'm asking what evidence you have for the claim that it is fairly applied. If we just have some statistics to weigh against no evidence, even if the statistics might potentially be innaccurate, that's still better than no evidence at all.

Innacurate statstics are more dangerous than no evidence at all. Would you rather have inaccurate data about that Hasan character or no evidence about him? Prosecution of crimes, and analyzing the Criminal Justice system, cannot rely on inaccurate statistics. If it does the very foundation of Justice goes right out the window. This is why we have those laws that more often help criminal offenders walk so that once in a while it saves the Honest Man's ass.

About 2/3 of crimes in the country are committed by whites. Roughtly in line with the portion of the country that is white. Statistically blacks do commit slightly more crime per capita, but way less total.

But, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the PERCENTAGE of people convicted who are then given the death penalty is way higher amongst blacks than whites. So how many crimes they commit isn't part of that equation.

Bureau of Justice Statistics Key Crime and Justice Facts at a Glance

Make your own conclusions from real statistics, not some College study that picks and chooses which bits of data to use and exclude. Keep in mind there is no percentage quota, or acceptable level of sentences. The Justice System is blind for the most part, regardless of what you may like to think, or have been shown by media outlets and the like.

drrace.gif
 
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Those stats are about prison populations. Keep those in context. Here is something to consider. Only 36% of the prison population is white, but 69% of people arrested are white.

That doesn't neccesarily indicate that the judicial system is rife with racists. Blacks tend to be poorer and hence less likely to be able to cover bail or get high end attorneys, but no matter what the motive is, it means looking at prison population statistics is a bad way to estimate levels of crime in a community.

The Justice System is blind for the most part, regardless of what you may like to think, or have been shown by media outlets and the like.

Keep in mind I'm not just talking about racial bias, but all kinds of factors that can bias a jury. For example, say that two people commit the same murder. One of them is a white woman who works at an office, looks vaguely like your third grade teacher, has the social acumen to know how to look ashamed of what she did and cry at the right times and can be downright charming. The other defendant is a 300 pound unemployed black guy with facial tatoos who is just above the line for mental retardation, who lacks the social skills to respond appropriately in court, and who reminds people of some character from Oz. Do you really believe juries would be equally likely to give each of them the death penalty?

The death penalty is applied only in cases where the jury feels that the defendant meets some kind of subjective standard for having committed an especially heinous type of murder. IMO life and death should not hang on such a subjective standard.
 
Those stats are about prison populations. Keep those in context. Here is something to consider. Only 36% of the prison population is white, but 69% of people arrested are white.

That doesn't neccesarily indicate that the judicial system is rife with racists. Blacks tend to be poorer and hence less likely to be able to cover bail or get high end attorneys, but no matter what the motive is, it means looking at prison population statistics is a bad way to estimate levels of crime in a community.

Keep in mind I'm not just talking about racial bias, but all kinds of factors that can bias a jury. For example, say that two people commit the same murder. One of them is a white woman who works at an office, looks vaguely like your third grade teacher, has the social acumen to know how to look ashamed of what she did and cry at the right times and can be downright charming. The other defendant is a 300 pound unemployed black guy with facial tatoos who is just above the line for mental retardation, who lacks the social skills to respond appropriately in court, and who reminds people of some character from Oz. Do you really believe juries would be equally likely to give each of them the death penalty?

The death penalty is applied only in cases where the jury feels that the defendant meets some kind of subjective standard for having committed an especially heinous type of murder. IMO life and death should not hang on such a subjective standard.

Ironically enough, I copped out and posted that link. I spent most of my time trying to re-find all the data I had used in a Criminology presentation, but I couldn't get enough data so I stopped trying. The point of the presentation was that every single little factor counts when dealing with the prison system. Just looking at numbers doesn't tell you anything. Just because Blacks are misrepresented in prison doesn't mean the system is racist, etc.

I just got tired of trying to re-create a 10 page paper and a 15 slide powerpoint's worth of data. :lol:

We seem to be in almost complete agreement, I think.

Also, if you look at Death Penalty cases since the lat 80's, I mean the case files specifically, you'll find that many of them we're either upsets on "Sure things" or on the flip side they we're good convictions on bad people.
 
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Nothing but a bunch of keystone cops after him. The idiots never checked out a rest area right near where they thought he was. Some guy saw the number plate and called it in and thats how they got them.
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How is it possible in this age of knowledge for not one cop, FBI or other never checked out the rest area right under their noses?
 
Nothing but a bunch of keystone cops after him. The idiots never checked out a rest area right near where they thought he was. Some guy saw the number plate and called it in and thats how they got them.
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How is it possible in this age of knowledge for not one cop, FBI or other never checked out the rest area right under their noses?

Which rest area was it?
 
Which rest area was it?
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I have no idea but it was shown on TV saying where he was spotted and it was in the vicinity of the areas that were being searched. Later some said that they saw the vehicle there the day before they announced the discription and # plate but thought nothing about it.
 
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