• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama Suggests Still Possible Hasan May Have Cracked Under Stress

teamosil said:
Why would you think that demonizing a religious group would somehow be what the murdered troops would want? Certainly if I were murdered by some nut the most horrible possible outcome I can imagine of that would be for it to be twisted into a reason to stir up more religious hatred. I presume that at least some of these troops enlisted under the belief that they are going to the middle east on a mission to help the region, so they would presumably share my disgust for the way their deaths are being used to build up the hatred they were ready to give their lives to quell.
Click to expand...

So its demonizing now to say he committed this act of terrorism based on Islam?

Should we just lie and say he was crazy?

Isn't that how he slipped through all this time?
 
texmaster said:
Your problem was you excuse Obama jumping to conclusions then chastise anyone else who uses the data we have right now to support this was about Islam.

Here is the part where you ignore the fact he brought up only one possible cause, ignore that and only focus on his second sentence that he wanted to "wait" before drawing any conclusions. :rofl

I wonder if this guy had used a suicide vest instead of a gun would you be equally as gullible in proclaiming it wasn't about Islam?
Click to expand...

Reading Comprehension Fail.

Where to begin.

No, actually, I DON'T chastise though that want to take the evidence CURRENTLY available and say that its likely his religion had a factor in this.

I do chastise those that say at this point it was ONLY due to his religion, which is ignorant to say before all facts have came in. I also chastised people who started making accusations the moment this happened that implied "Oh, it is obviously muslim terrorism" because its ignorant to do that as if its factual before it happens (I equally chastised those that immedietely tried to imply "Oh, it is obviously chrsitian teabaggers" when the census worker was hung".

Also, show me where I've ever proclaimed his religion had nothing to do this. Search my posts before you make direct accusations. I've never said such. On the contrary, I specifically have stated I fully believe his religion played into it.

And no, it doesn't appear that Obama is jumping to conclusions. His second sentence is the important one, that he's not going to state why or how this happened until all the facts are out. And that's correct, because he's the POTUS not an average citizen, and its important that our chief executive exemplifies the fact that in investigations you don't start making assumptions or difinitive statements without all the facts.
 
texmaster said:
So its demonizing now to say he committed this act of terrorism based on Islam?

Should we just lie and say he was crazy?

Isn't that how he slipped through all this time?
Click to expand...

So you're a 100% positive it couldn't be that he had some kind of mental condition or issue that along with being close to being deployed, combined with his extreme religious views, caused this and that it was simply and souley based on his following of Islam?
 
texmaster said:
So its demonizing now to say he committed this act of terrorism based on Islam?

Should we just lie and say he was crazy?

Isn't that how he slipped through all this time?
Click to expand...

What do you mean? He is crazy. He wasn't associated with any terrorist organization that we know of. Sounds like he tried to contact Al Qaeda, but no indication that they ever contacted him back or anything. Just because somebody goes nuts and yells stuff about Islam while they're killing people doesn't make them a terrorist... A terrorist has to be acting as part of a non-state organization and they have to be attacking non-military targets. This is just a case of an individual nut attacking a military target.

Whether you try to pin what he did on Muslims generally or not has no impact on whether people like him will continue to slip through. The army should absolutely work to find anybody as unstable as he is. Calling him a terrorist just confuses things and sends them on a wild goose chase of looking for connections to terrorist cells. Why would they need to do that in order to crack down on individuals that might go postal?
 
Last edited:
texmaster said:
Again I have and you don't want to admit it.
Click to expand...

The only way for this to be true is if he meant something completely other than what he said. Here, let me explain what he said to you. He said it might be stress, it might be part of a conspiracy/plot, until the investigation is done, it is premature to comment. Now explain how that is "jumping to conclusions".
 
Zyphlin said:
Reading Comprehension Fail.
Click to expand...

I know but you might improve. Let's see.

Where to begin.

No, actually, I DON'T chastise though that want to take the evidence CURRENTLY available and say that its likely his religion had a factor in this.
Click to expand...

Really. Then explain your last post on the last page.

I do chastise those that say at this point it was ONLY due to his religion, which is ignorant to say before all facts have came in. I also chastised people who started making accusations the moment this happened that implied "Oh, it is obviously muslim terrorism" because its ignorant to do that as if its factual before it happens (I equally chastised those that immedietely tried to imply "Oh, it is obviously chrsitian teabaggers" when the census worker was hung".
Click to expand...

Then you are simply ignoring the evidence we have. If you want to do that, go right ahead and be foolish.

Also, show me where I've ever proclaimed his religion had nothing to do this. Search my posts before you make direct accusations. I've never said such. On the contrary, I specifically have stated I fully believe his religion played into it.
Click to expand...

You can't have it both ways. You can't chastise people who use the evidence we have to conclude it was directly because of his religion then proclaim you never said it wasn't. Sorry dude.

And no, it doesn't appear that Obama is jumping to conclusions.p
Click to expand...

LOL Here we go again. You running from his own words.

His second sentence is the important one, that he's not going to state why or how this happened until all the facts are out. And that's correct, because he's the POTUS not an average citizen, and its important that our chief executive exemplifies the fact that in investigations you don't start making assumptions or difinitive statements without all the facts.
Click to expand...

Nope sorry. Now I know where you learned this sloppy tactic.

You can't suggest a cause for the attack then the next sentence proclaim you want to wait for all the evidence just like you can't attack people who use the evidence we have to conclude it was his religion that was behind it then say you aren't ruling it out.

That's beyond pathetic. Pick a side and stick to it. You don't get to have it both ways.

This isn't the south park flag we are debating.
 
Redress said:
The only way for this to be true is if he meant something completely other than what he said. Here, let me explain what he said to you. He said it might be stress, it might be part of a conspiracy/plot, until the investigation is done, it is premature to comment. Now explain how that is "jumping to conclusions".
Click to expand...

Because he only suggests one possible cause, ignores the one we actually have evidence for then tries a cheap political trick to have it both ways by then claiming he wants to wait for all the evidence.

I think the South Park flag is racist! But it is part of our history.
 
Zyphlin said:
So you're a 100% positive it couldn't be that he had some kind of mental condition or issue that along with being close to being deployed, combined with his extreme religious views, caused this and that it was simply and souley based on his following of Islam?
Click to expand...

A mental condition that made him give away all his possessions before he did it as well?

Did you not know this?

I'm sure I could also not rule out aliens made him do it either. :rofl
 
I'm wondering if Islam is to blame for this obviously insane act is Christanity to blame for abortion clinic bombings?
 
texmaster said:
Because he only suggests one possible cause, ignores the one we actually have evidence for then tries a cheap political trick to have it both ways by then claiming he wants to wait for all the evidence.

I think the South Park flag is racist! But it is part of our history.
Click to expand...

You need to work on your reading for comprehension skills. Let me quote from your video:

President Obama said:
I think the questions that we're asking now and we don't have yet complete answers to is, is this an individual who's acting in this way or is it some larger set of actors?
Click to expand...

Hey look, more than one possibility. Wow, you are wrong, you have been wrong, you will continue to be wrong because you will never admit that you screwed up.
 
winston53660 said:
I'm wondering if Islam is to blame for this obviously insane act is Christanity to blame for abortion clinic bombings?
Click to expand...

Is there a global CHristian movement trying to kill people for not being Christians nd trying to overthrow governments? There isn't, is it?
 
apdst said:
Is there a global CHristian movement trying to kill people for not being Christians nd trying to overthrow governments? There isn't, is it?
Click to expand...

Well there is the neo nazi movement and as far as I know the do claim Christinaity :shrug:
 
Saying you believe that his religion isn't SINGULARLY responsible for this act is NOT the same as saying his religion had NOTHING to do with this act.

If it was his religion, and only his religion, then why isn't every single solitary muslim within the United States Army shooting up their bases?

From the evidence presented thus far I imagine he was a severely disturbed person who was in a situation where he continually (wrongly or rightly) felt like an outsider who found solace in an extremist interpritation of his religion and had found out he was going to be deployed abroad to fight in a war he seemingly not just hated but identified with the enemy about, leading him to the act that occured the other day.

His extremist views were most definitively partially to blame here imho based on the facts we have, but was not singularly the cause. If it was as simple as "Islam caused him to kill" then we'd be having an epidemic of this in our military and even in our every day society, and we simply do not.
 
apdst said:
Is there a global CHristian movement trying to kill people for not being Christians nd trying to overthrow governments? There isn't, is it?
Click to expand...

In this century? No, in the past, yes.

So was it Christianity that caused it in the past, or was it the PEOPLE that USED Christianity in the past that caused it.

And if you say it was the PEOPLE then, then how can you say its 100% different when it comes to muslims, and say that its completely the religions fault and not the peoples fault that's causing it?
 
winston53660 said:
Well there is the neo nazi movement and as far as I know the do claim Christinaity :shrug:
Click to expand...

They're not a religious movement, but I group them together with Islam.
 
apdst said:
They're not a religious movement, but I group them together with Islam.
Click to expand...

So you think Islam, on the whole, is more comparable to Neo-Nazi's than to say...Christians?
 
So the new tactic for dealing with enemies is to pretend they dont exist.I got a feeling that might not work
 
Zyphlin said:
In this century? No, in the past, yes.

So was it Christianity that caused it in the past, or was it the PEOPLE that USED Christianity in the past that caused it.

And if you say it was the PEOPLE then, then how can you say its 100% different when it comes to muslims, and say that its completely the religions fault and not the peoples fault that's causing it?
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was Chistians that caused it and they did it in the name of Christianity, the same way that Muslims do those things in the name of Islam today. However, Christians have outgrown all that crap in the past few hundred years.

Would you be making all these excusese for Klansmen, or Nazis? Probably not, huh?
 
Zyphlin said:
So you think Islam, on the whole, is more comparable to Neo-Nazi's than to say...Christians?
Click to expand...

Most definitely! Their body counts are comparable.
 
apdst said:
Yeah, it was Chistians that caused it and they did it in the name of Christianity, the same way that Muslims do those things in the name of Islam today. However, Christians have outgrown all that crap in the past few hundred years.

Would you be making all these excusese for Klansmen, or Nazis? Probably not, huh?
Click to expand...

Aheeem the klan claims they are a Christian org. Why don't ya stop by Stormfront and ask the posters there about their religious beliefs.
 
apdst said:
Yeah, it was Chistians that caused it and they did it in the name of Christianity, the same way that Muslims do those things in the name of Islam today. However, Christians have outgrown all that crap in the past few hundred years.
Click to expand...

Right, but was CHRISTIANITY that was at fault? Was Christianity inherently evil then but magically not inherently evil now? Or was it that the PEOPLE were wrong?

I mean, if you're saying that it was the people, not the religion they used, ages ago and its the people now, not the religion they simply use, now then no biggy, I agree.

But it seems people are trying to say that it is islam itself that is the problem. Not the people that take it to extremes, not the people that commit attrocities in its name, but the religion itself. If that is the case, then all the evil that was done by people in the name of Christianity, all the things done when the words of that religion were taken to the extreme, would mean that Christianity is also evil. Unless you want to tell me that the Christianity people practice today is somehow a different religion than that which was practiced centuries ago.

Did the religion change, or did the people who manipulated the religion to do evil things get tossed out?

Would you be making all these excusese for Klansmen, or Nazis? Probably not, huh?
Click to expand...

No, the very basic premise of the klans and the current neo-nazi ideology is singularly racist and wrong. The vast majority, not a small minority, of klansman and neo-nazi's are racist bigots who sincerely and fully believe that those who are not white are beneath and below them and must be subjigated.

On the contrary

The majority of Muslims do not have the feeling that those that aren't part of their faith must be killed or forced to submit. A very vocal and visible minority are doing the bombings and the killings, that are calling for open violent jihad against people.

There are good things you can take out of the Muslim ideology, many of the same things that you can take out of the Christian and Jewish ideologies.

There's very little you can take out of the ideology of the Klan and Neo-Nazi's that is actually positive in any large way. Even their notion of supporting their brotherhood is steeped in the cloak of racism.

The reason people wouldn't be saying "hey, don't do that" with the Klan and Neo-Nazi's is becasue the extreme negative view isn't the minority, its the majority in those groups. That's not the case in Islam.
 
winston53660 said:
Aheeem the klan claims they are a Christian org. Why don't ya stop by Stormfront and ask the posters there about their religious beliefs.
Click to expand...

If a Neo-Nazi, or a klansman had done this, would you be making the same excuses for them, like you're doing for hasan? You would claim that it had nothing to do with it?
 
apdst said:
Most definitely! Their body counts are comparable.
Click to expand...

In terms of body count Islam and Christianity are FAR closer to each other than either of them are to the Neo-Nazi movement.
 
Zyphlin said:
In terms of body count Islam and Christianity are FAR closer to each other than either of them are to the Neo-Nazi movement.
Click to expand...

In the respect that the Nazis are well ahead of both of them, you're correct.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom