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Obama's Afghan Plan: About 40K More Troops

RightOfCenter said:
If we wanted to we could put every soldier in the Army in Afghanistan in a couple of months. That's also if we wanted to send them there without the training that the Army has decided they to effectively do their jobs, not to mention not dying.
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They would hardly be sent there untrained.
 
apdst said:
oh yeah! I'm an asshole for wanting a faster reinforcement of our soldiers that are already in country. How silly of me!
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Adspt...I beleive that you've said in other threads as others have the once this decision was made that you would support the President. Has that positions changed? Please tell me why this is not adequate enough. A year is not fast enough for you?
 
goldendog said:
Adspt...I beleive that you've said in other threads as others have the once this decision was made that you would support the President. Has that positions changed? Please tell me why this is not adequate enough. A year is not fast enough for you?
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Um, no, I don't recall ever saying anything remotely close to that. I believe what I said was, that is the president made a good decision, I would support him. I've yet to see that decision being made.

And, no, a year isn't good enough for me. That's too long, not to mention it will take another couple of months for the lead-on units to show up in theater.

It's this kind of dog-assin' around that will make this war drag on forever.
 
apdst said:
Um, no, I don't recall ever saying anything remotely close to that. I believe what I said was, that is the president made a good decision, I would support him. I've yet to see that decision being made.

And, no, a year isn't good enough for me. That's too long, not to mention it will take another couple of months for the lead-on units to show up in theater.

It's this kind of dog-assin' around that will make this war drag on forever.
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Here's what you said....

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ing-afghanistan-troops-38.html#post1058324936

Please provide links as to your claims of near 40,000 troops being rapidly deployed over a two month period and the conditions that surrounded them.

Thanks.
 
apdst said:
They would hardly be sent there untrained.
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When did you serve? One weekend a month, two weeks a year is not nearly enough time for a reserve unit to be ready for deployment, especially for this type of warfare.
 
Umm...

(CBS) Editor's note, 9:57 p.m. EDT: The White House has issued the following response to this story, attributed to White House National Security Advisor James Jones:

"Reports that President Obama has made a decision about Afghanistan are absolutely false. He has not received final options for his consideration, he has not reviewed those options with his national security team, and he has not made any decisions about resources. Any reports to the contrary are completely untrue and come from uninformed sources."


Obama's Afghan Plan: About 40K More Troops - CBS News
 
RightinNYC said:
No, it makes it reasonable.
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What's so reasonable about it?



RightOfCenter said:
When did you serve? One weekend a month, two weeks a year is not nearly enough time for a reserve unit to be ready for deployment, especially for this type of warfare.
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You say that as if these units haven't already been operating against this type of warfare already.
 
1069 said:
Umm...

(CBS) Editor's note, 9:57 p.m. EDT: The White House has issued the following response to this story, attributed to White House National Security Advisor James Jones:

"Reports that President Obama has made a decision about Afghanistan are absolutely false. He has not received final options for his consideration, he has not reviewed those options with his national security team, and he has not made any decisions about resources. Any reports to the contrary are completely untrue and come from uninformed sources."


Obama's Afghan Plan: About 40K More Troops - CBS News
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Figures!...:roll:
 
apdst said:
You say that as if these units haven't already been operating against this type of warfare already.
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Man, I hate to be on the wrong side of this, but I have to go with what I've seen. NG and Reserve units, IMO, have performed poorly when they have owned battlespace...meaning their leadership is making the call. They have done OK while supplementing active duty. We've had this conversation, and I think the world of our weekend warriors, but I would never allow the NG or Res. to "own" any land in a COIN fight. Never.
 
apdst said:
You say that as if these units haven't already been operating against this type of warfare already.
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Take my unit for example. I'm a tanker in a tank company in an infantry battalion. When gearing up for deployment we don't start until a year before the actual deployment. Then we head to mob stations like Camp Shelby. Then we deploy. That process takes over a year. During this training we learn the actual jobs we'll do while we're deployed, jobs that have nothing to do with the tanks we train with for the time when we're not preparing to be deployed. And that is for an actual combat arms company. Now imagine doing the same thing with a non-combat MOS.
 
kansaswhig said:
Man, I hate to be on the wrong side of this, but I have to go with what I've seen. NG and Reserve units, IMO, have performed poorly when they have owned battlespace...meaning their leadership is making the call. They have done OK while supplementing active duty. We've had this conversation, and I think the world of our weekend warriors, but I would never allow the NG or Res. to "own" any land in a COIN fight. Never.
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I wouldn't either, nor did I ever say they should. However, there are plenty of security and support missions that NG and AR component units can fullfill.

You also gotta stop and realize the last go round of NG deployments was their first time seeing the elephant.


RightOfCenter said:
Take my unit for example. I'm a tanker in a tank company in an infantry battalion. When gearing up for deployment we don't start until a year before the actual deployment. Then we head to mob stations like Camp Shelby. Then we deploy. That process takes over a year. During this training we learn the actual jobs we'll do while we're deployed, jobs that have nothing to do with the tanks we train with for the time when we're not preparing to be deployed. And that is for an actual combat arms company. Now imagine doing the same thing with a non-combat MOS.
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Now, you're talking about something totally different, when you start cross-training soldier into other MOS's. If you're going to operating in your primary, you should be able to perform you job as well, if not better than RA, because you're all smarter and better educated. During my time with RTD, I saw NG units make RA units look like assholes. I saw a NG brigade give the OPFOR at NTC one helluva run for their money and nobody does that to NTC's OPFOR. The best that a unit can hope for at NTC is to die with honor...:rofl. So, if you make OPFOR sweat a little, then you've done something.
 
apdst said:
I wouldn't either, nor did I ever say they should. However, there are plenty of security and support missions that NG and AR component units can fullfill.
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That is true and I agree with giving them those missions, not to mention plucking "players" out of NG units to fill vital roles...i.e., police chiefs, city planners, etc.

You also gotta stop and realize the last go round of NG deployments was their first time seeing the elephant.
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For the major BCTs, 04-05 was the first major go-around. Some are on their second try...but none owning battlespace at this time that I'm aware of.
 
" The two senior administration officials suggested the information is being leaked by Pentagon sources who are trying to box in Obama by setting public expectations that he will send close to 40,000 more troops to Afghanistan, as requested by McChrystal.

"People at the Pentagon are trying to force a certain outcome," one of the senior administration officials told CNN."

White House: No Afghanistan troop decision made - CNN.com


Wow. :shock:
 
kansaswhig said:
That is true and I agree with giving them those missions, not to mention plucking "players" out of NG units to fill vital roles...i.e., police chiefs, city planners, etc.
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Not only that, but there should be an effort made to identify qaulity leaders and make sure those soldiers in the slots where they'll do the most good and the bird turds that were promoted just because of time in service are placed where they can do the least harm. And, I'm talking about squad leaders on up. If that means that a BDE commander has to be overridden by the DIV commander, then so be it.



For the major BCTs, 04-05 was the first major go-around. Some are on their second try...but none owning battlespace at this time that I'm aware of.
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I believe you're right, there aren't BCT that are operational in theater at this time.
 
1069 said:
" The two senior administration officials suggested the information is being leaked by Pentagon sources who are trying to box in Obama by setting public expectations that he will send close to 40,000 more troops to Afghanistan, as requested by McChrystal.

"People at the Pentagon are trying to force a certain outcome," one of the senior administration officials told CNN."

White House: No Afghanistan troop decision made - CNN.com


Wow. :shock:
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Good for them. Just send the god damned troops already...
 
RightinNYC said:
40K More Troops​
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RightinNYC said:
40K More Troops​
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RightinNYC said:
40K More Troops​
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RightinNYC said:
40K​
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DID SOMEONE SAY 40K???
2.6%2040k%20Advanced%20Net%20Version_html_5f691113.jpg
 
I think Obama's plan for Afghanistan has been summed up well and in one word by Cheney: "Dithering". As in "dithering" idiot.

The two senior administration officials suggested the information is being leaked by Pentagon sources
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Trial balloon?

With these people, the troops are not sent until the troops are sent. It is difficult to believe anything this group says.

.
 
I'd say send the troops AND some Flying ****ing Fortresses of Doom...aka AC-130u's


now THERE'S reinforcements...
 
So basically it took Obama how long to decide that McCrystal was right in his assesment?

This is what we get when we elect someone with no military experiance to the WH while we are in the middle of two wars.
 
Kal'Stang said:
So basically it took Obama how long to decide that McCrystal was right in his assesment?

This is what we get when we elect someone with no military experiance to the WH while we are in the middle of two wars.
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I disagree with this assessment. I think he respected McCrystal's recommendation, but certain avenues had to be explored first: what level of troops was NATO willing to contribute (none), what was pakistan prepared to do (nothing), do we have the supply route capacity for the new troops (maybe), do we have the troops available (if we send troops home from Iraq.

And so on that last point, we had to know when Iraqi elections were taking place so we could plan rotating a unit out of Iraq and rotating a different unit into Afghanistan. Enter the election law just passed on Sunday, one day before this leak: http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...tion-law-smoothing-way-january-elections.html

Needless to say, all of this took time. I am satisfied with the decision and with the speed the troops can be brought into theater. There is going to be more casualties, not because we don't have troops there, but because we are in an aggressive COIN posture.
 
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Afghanistan is culturally tribal and fragmented, anyway. No centralised government, parliamentary or federal, will ever work in that country. It'd take decades upon decades of cultural globalisation for that to happen. The best the NATO forces are going to do is make it slightly more secure.
 
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Kal'Stang said:
So basically it took Obama how long to decide that McCrystal was right in his assesment?

This is what we get when we elect someone with no military experiance to the WH while we are in the middle of two wars.
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The fact that he even had the cajones to second guess a military commander on the ground after being avidly opposed to the surge in Iraq is enough to make me vomit.
 
Richard Nixon said:
Afghanistan is culturally tribal and fragmented, anyway. No centralised government, parliamentary or federal, will ever work in that country. It'd take decades upon decades of cultural globalisation for that to happen. The best the NATO forces are going to do is make it slightly more secure.
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Let's just buy opium from them in exchange for them to leave everyone alone. Except Russia. They can mess with Russia.
 
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