House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

MrVicchio said:

Let me ask you something CC, when this monstrosity passes, are you going to be ok with the Government telling you that you aren't living a "healthy lifestyle" and dictating to you changes you must undertake or pay a penalty?

Because that's where this is headed, and it's in that bill.

Click to expand...

Show me where it is in the bill.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

CaptainCourtesy said:

Good to know.



This issue cannot be defined in broad strokes such as that. But here's how I would be OK with an answer of "NO" to that question in regards to health care. If you do not purchase health care, and you have some sort of catastrophic illness, you may NOT, under any circumstances have any government assistance to help you pay for it. NONE. And if you have no ability to pay, no doctor/hospital is required to treat you. NONE. This will prevent costs from folks who refuse to get health care, and then beg for it when they get ill. Would you agree to this?

Click to expand...

Nah I'll agree to the 5 years imprisonment and quarter million dollar fine as the constitution is shredded infront of our eyes.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

Agent Ferris said:

Nah I'll agree to the 5 years imprisonment and quarter million dollar fine as the constitution is shredded infront of our eyes.

Click to expand...

So, you do not agree to my response? I would have thought you would have liked the fact that my position basically states, "if you refuse to take responsibility for yourself, don't expect the government to take responsibility for you."

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

CaptainCourtesy said:

Good to know.



This issue cannot be defined in broad strokes such as that. But here's how I would be OK with an answer of "NO" to that question in regards to health care. If you do not purchase health care, and you have some sort of catastrophic illness, you may NOT, under any circumstances have any government assistance to help you pay for it. NONE. And if you have no ability to pay, no doctor/hospital is required to treat you. NONE. This will prevent costs from folks who refuse to get health care, and then beg for it when they get ill. Would you agree to this?

Click to expand...

What if it's a loan? That way the government makes money in the long term, and the poor guy get's a second chance in the long term.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

DarkWizard12 said:

What if it's a loan? That way the government makes money in the long term, and the poor guy get's a second chance in the long term.

Click to expand...

No. If they were not responsible enough to either get health care or save money for their health costs, I have no faith in their ability to pay back the government. There will be a host of "reneging" on this agreement, and then guess who'll be fitting the bill? You and I, John Q. Taxpayer. No, if they do not want health care, then they need to be responsible to save for illness. This is no nanny state.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

CaptainCourtesy said:

No. If they were not responsible enough to either get health care or save money for their health costs, I have no faith in their ability to pay back the government. There will be a host of "reneging" on this agreement, and then guess who'll be fitting the bill? You and I, John Q. Taxpayer. No, if they do not want health care, then they need to be responsible to save for illness. This is no nanny state.

Click to expand...

So I take it your not open to the idea?

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

what if the person who's being mandated to buy for himself or herself can't afford it?

this bill forces all americans not insured to go buy a product that can cost $1000 a month

if you're a low earner the govt will help you a little, but you must still pick up the brunt of it

this is the perverse view of universalism embodied in this legislation---buy it yourself or go to jail

as for reconciliation, the nuclear option---it'll never happen

when's the last time you even heard mention of it?

the dems bring it up every once in awhile, when they hit roadblocks, then always drop it within 24 hours

it's pure political posturing

and for reason---reconciliation cannot accomplish 2/3 of what these bills contemplate

reconciliation is extremely limited in what it can do

it's by definition very temporary, and the bulk of the benefits promised in 3962 for example don't kick in til 2014

and it lacks legitimacy, politically, it obviously indicates that the party can't pass legislation thru normal parliamentary procedure

but, most to the point---it's extremely limited in what it can do

it's for short term budget fixes, not permanent social reforms

this bill has no chance in the senate

lieberman, bayh, nelson, landrieu, lincoln, dorgan, pryor, conrad have as much as said so

and a one vote victory in pelosi's place is gonna hurt it upstairs, not help

if it can't get 85% of the party downstairs...

and now the dems are on record imposing fines against the uninsured, even their imprisonment, massive cuts to m and m, the termination of medicare advantage, huge taxes on small biz and large biz and insurers and device manufacturers, the imposition of impossible mandates on already bankrupt states (difi and harry reid have both said they can't go there), etc, etc, etc

you'll note that not a lib on this thread has defended even one of the pernicious, poisonous provisions pointed out

harry reid himself is in such a tough spot relative to nevada---if this bill passes (according to him), it's a very bad thing for his state

he'll lose his job

Harry Reid: Health care bill won't work for Nevada - Wednesday, Sept. 16, 2009 | 10:36 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun

but reid's objection, which is difi's, is, most revealingly, one of the relatively smaller problem this thing faces upstairs

the biggest obstacle and most insuperable problem is jiltin joe (lieberman)

Boy, it's hard to imagine how the democrats are feeling right now. Anything less than 230 votes in the house is DoA in the senate. They know it. The vote was so close, way too close, even more than the cap and trade bill and that's not even going to be brought up. this HC Reform is kept alive only through media hype, this bill will never reach the president's desk.

So close, yet so far.

You still lose. A Pyrrhic victory.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

DarkWizard12 said:

So I take it your not open to the idea?

Click to expand...

Based on your description...no, I would not want to see that happen.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

Let's be clear. This is not healthcare reform, this is health insurance reform. Something that is supposed to happen at the state level, not the federal level. States have all the authority to regulate the health insurance industries that do business within their borders. This is completely unnecessary. It would have been handled better, IMO, at that level. What works for NY in regards to health insurance may not work for Arizona.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

CaptainCourtesy said:

Good to know.



This issue cannot be defined in broad strokes such as that. But here's how I would be OK with an answer of "NO" to that question in regards to health care. If you do not purchase health care, and you have some sort of catastrophic illness, you may NOT, under any circumstances have any government assistance to help you pay for it. NONE. And if you have no ability to pay, no doctor/hospital is required to treat you. NONE. This will prevent costs from folks who refuse to get health care, and then beg for it when they get ill. Would you agree to this?

Click to expand...

That is exactly what I would like to see happen. I have no problem with people choosing not to buy health ins. as long as the Taxpayers dont have to foot the bill later. It is called personal responsibility and it is what this country is based on. It is not the Govs job tell us that we are to stupid as a people to take care of ourselves and we need them to do it for us.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

I have thus far failed to see why healthcare is bad. It will save the lives of many millions of more Americans and give them access to a healthcare system that wont burden them financially. A major right has been secured here, and a bit of socialism in the system never hurt anyone

I say this because i have first hand experience on the benefits and convienience of a national healthcare system.

Improved access to heathcare isn't bad.

Reform and reeling in the Health insurance companies isn't bad.

Both have been needed for years.

I'm glad the house finally voted in favor of this bill.

One more step foward to a win for America and unfortuntaly in the eyes of many Repubicans it is one more step forward for yet again another defeat for their party.

It's a fine day for America ladies and Gentlemen....:2wave:

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

kaya'08 said:

I have thus far failed to see why healthcare is bad

Click to expand...

health care is good

this bill is bad

1. half a tril cuts to m and m

2. mandates on individuals to pony up 1000 a month, fines if they don't, jail to follow

3. sluffing off on states already bankrupt billions of dollars of unfunded mandates in medicaid

4. bogus accounting---10 years of taxes, half that in benefits

5. a house doc fix, at a quarter tril, off budget, to come later

6. 1.4T net cost

7. paid for by hundreds of billions in fines, mandates, penalties, taxes

8. tax hiker, budget buster, jobs killer

9. pelosi's piece is precisely the wrong shape for the much more centrist senate

10. lieberman, bayh, conrad, dorgan, pryor, lincoln, landrieu...

11. taxes on small biz

12. taxing benefits

13. surcharges on the rich

14. punitives vs device makers sure to be passed on

defend THAT

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

The Prof said:

health care is good

this bill is bad

1. half a tril cuts to m and m

2. mandates on individuals to pony up 1000 a month, fines if they don't, jail to follow

3. sluffing off on states already bankrupt billions of dollars of unfunded mandates in medicaid

4. bogus accounting---10 years of taxes, half that in benefits

5. a house doc fix, at a quarter tril, off budget, to come later

6. 1.4T net cost

7. paid for by hundreds of billions in fines, mandates, penalties, taxes

8. tax hiker, budget buster, jobs killer

9. pelosi's piece is precisely the wrong shape for the much more centrist senate

10. lieberman, bayh, conrad, dorgan, pryor, lincoln, landrieu...

11. taxes on small biz

12. taxing benefits

13. surcharges on the rich

14. punitives vs device makers sure to be passed on

defend THAT

Click to expand...

Could you write that with better Grammar? I get where your going with it though.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

The Prof said:

health care is good

this bill is bad

1. half a tril cuts to m and m

2. mandates on individuals to pony up 1000 a month, fines if they don't, jail to follow

3. sluffing off on states already bankrupt billions of dollars of unfunded mandates in medicaid

4. bogus accounting---10 years of taxes, half that in benefits

5. a house doc fix, at a quarter tril, off budget, to come later

6. 1.4T net cost

7. paid for by hundreds of billions in fines, mandates, penalties, taxes

8. tax hiker, budget buster, jobs killer

9. pelosi's piece is precisely the wrong shape for the much more centrist senate

10. lieberman, bayh, conrad, dorgan, pryor, lincoln, landrieu...

11. taxes on small biz

12. taxing benefits

13. surcharges on the rich

14. punitives vs device makers sure to be passed on

defend THAT

Click to expand...

Prof. how does the currently wasted $800 billion per year in current government health care system work towards the $1 trillion?

Family Health - Elimination of $850 Billion in Health Care Waste Could Pay for Reforms | Health News

Also, can you source the $1,000 per month? I have read about the fines and jails but can't find the dollar amount for the government option of health care.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

Gibberish said:

Prof. how does the currently wasted $800 billion per year in current government health care system work towards the $1 trillion?

Family Health - Elimination of $850 Billion in Health Care Waste Could Pay for Reforms | Health News

Also, can you source the $1,000 per month? I have read about the fines and jails but can't find the dollar amount for the government option of health care.

Click to expand...

hi

president obama has said repeatedly that he will pay for "two thirds" of his jovian ambitions by eliminating wfa (waste, fraud and abuse) in m and m

that claim is beyond absurd since, if such massive savings could be garnered they would have been done long ago

what, teddy kennedy was just too dumb to find what obama discovered one day under some bed in the lincoln bedroom, or something?

the half tril cuts to m and m are there, on paper, probably not more than 100 of the 2000 pages

but they will never come real, they will be kicked down the road just like they have been every year for a decade

as bogus as the doc fix soon to come

and a massive growth on the deficit

so---dems will take the HATE from seniors who can't believe they'd be treated so by the party they largely supported after all their years of paying, saving and sacrificing

and yet, on the other hand, it aint never gonna happen, these huge cuts to m and m

just like the bill, no chance

worst of all worlds

they take the political heat without even getting passage in return

as to the 1000 dollar figure, i don't know

i get my health care thru my job as public school teacher in CA

you tell me, what's the cost of insuring an individual, a young couple, a family of four or six or eight?

if it's less than 1000, it's less than 1000

but whatever it is, that's what pelosi last nite mandated upon every american currently uncovered

and if you don't buy it, you're an outlaw, subject to exactly how tax cheats and criminals are ultimately treated in this country

thanks, friend

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

Prof was just warned for asking you to re-write in better grammer. Obviously the mod misunderstood my intention, it was sincere, i didnt actually understand most of your points and if you could rewrite that id be happy to answer. No insult intended, my bad if it came across that way.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

chevydriver1123 said:

Well we're ****ed, unless some of the Blue Dog Senators stick to their guns.

Click to expand...

Well after looking at the final vote, 54% of the House "Blue Dogs" voted with the far left liberals in the House. I think conservative citizens and the media are making too much ado about how "blue" these Democrats are - after last nights vote, they're not that blue and more like "yellow" and not the kind of yellow that hearkens back to past century's, but yellow as in "cowardly". I did a quick tally - here's the list of "blue dogs" that voted AYE

Baron Hill (IN - 09) Blue Dog Co-Chair for Policy
Heath Shuler (NC-11) Blue Dog Whip
Mike Arcuri (NY-24)
Joe Baca (CA-43)
Marion Berry (AR-01)
Sanford Bishop (GA-02)
Leonard Boswell (IA-03)
Dennis Cardoza (CA-18)
Chris Carney (PA-10)
Jim Cooper (TN-05)
Jim Costa (CA-20)
Henry Cuellar (TX-28)
Kathy Dahlkemper (PA-03)
Joe Donnelly (IN-02)
Brad Ellsworth (IN-08)
Jane Harman (CA-36)
Mike Michaud (ME-02)
Harry Mitchell (AZ-05)
Dennis Moore (KS-03)
Patrick Murphy (PA-08)
Earl Pomeroy (ND)
John Salazar (CO-03)
Loretta Sanchez (CA-47)
Adam Schiff (CA-29)
David Scott (GA-13)
Zack Space (OH-18)
Mike Thompson (CA-01)
Charles Wilson (OH-06)

28 out of 52 "Blue Dogs" Voted Aye - for HR 3962 "Affordable Health Care for America Act"

54% Voted with Liberal Democrats

Click to expand...

I got this info by comparing the list of Blue Dogs HERE with the AYE votes found HERE. I wouldn't put much faith in Senate "Blue Dogs" at all.

The only way to make sure is to vote these bums out. Every single one on the list above. They've sold out their constituents.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

Joe1991 said:

I prefer to call it "majority vote", but yeah if it comes down to that, it will be used.

A HC bill will be passed, have no doubts.

Click to expand...

Oh I hope so.... come 2010 when every Dem that can be voted out is, it can then be tossed in the dumpster where it belongs.

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

kaya'08 said:

Prof was just warned for asking you to re-write in better grammer. Obviously the mod misunderstood my intention, it was sincere, i didnt actually understand most of your points and if you could rewrite that id be happy to answer. No insult intended, my bad if it came across that way.

Click to expand...

please, no problem, i get it all the time, concerning my intelligibility

from my view, i'm explaining extremely COMPLEX stuff

personally, i think i do a marvelous job of simplifying (LOL!)

it's the MATERIAL, not me

our mods here, i've found, have been TOTAL CLASS

i've received my rebukes

you's gots klass, my friend

kliff

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

tjinta ibis said:

Now the Democrats need to try and remove those Dems who voted no by withdrawing funds for them from party coffers and running more progressive people against them.

Click to expand...

And they accuse the GOP of being intolerant of moderates. Hypocrisy much?
:rofl

Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

Ockham said:

Well after looking at the final vote, 54% of the House "Blue Dogs" voted with the far left liberals in the House. I think conservative citizens and the media are making too much ado about how "blue" these Democrats are - after last nights vote, they're not that blue and more like "yellow" and not the kind of yellow that hearkens back to past century's, but yellow as in "cowardly". I did a quick tally - here's the list of "blue dogs" that voted AYE



I got this info by comparing the list of Blue Dogs HERE with the AYE votes found HERE. I wouldn't put much faith in Senate "Blue Dogs" at all.

The only way to make sure is to vote these bums out. Every single one on the list above. They've sold out their constituents.

Click to expand...

the options only allow me to press "thanks"

there's no "THANKS!"

or, "THANKS! THANKS! THANKS!!!"

which is how eagerly your SCOOP i received

i wouldn't call lieberman or landrieu or lincoln or BEN NELSON, et al, bluedogs

they're senators

they don't JOIN

they see themselves as imperators, emperors

they are to be courted

DO NOT SWEAT IT

lieberman, nelson, bayh, dorgan, pryor, lincoln, landrieu, conrad---these folks are NOT heath shulers (who's a really good guy, tho a horrible quarterback)

lieberman MEANS WHAT HE SAYS, you have got to know that

reid can't lose A ONE

there are others whose names i don't know

DO NOT SWEAT IT

patience

cliff

pro-bipartisan said:

Health care vote: A majority of House members have voted to pass the health care bill Naples Daily News

"A majority of House members have voted to pass the health care bill. The vote is continuing.

Democratic leaders were hopeful they could pass the bill late Saturday, giving Obama his biggest victory since last November's historic election. Obama made a rare visit to Congress earlier in the day to meet with House Democrats in an effort to cement a majority to pass the legislation that is his top domestic priority."

Click to expand...

Well, it's through the Duma. Next to the Politburo.
Duma... is that short for Dumbasses?

.

Joe1991 said:

I prefer to call it "majority vote", but yeah if it comes down to that, it will be used.

A HC bill will be passed, have no doubts.

Click to expand...

Strange how a few years and a couple of major elections can change ones perspective of an 'up or down' vote...

Yes, a bill will be passed. Maybe not exactly what a liberal may have in mind, but not everything is perfect on the first try.