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12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

Apparently he also liked drinking beer and visiting strip clubs when his fellow soldiers weren't looking. Sounding more and more like many self proclaimed Christians I know. And also somebody who was even more conflicted than some us originally thought.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/59834-alleged-fort-hood-shooter-frequented-local-strip-club.html

Anyway, he's awake and talking. We'll see what comes next.

This fits into what the 911 guys did as well. From what I read about that they knew they were going to Paradise FOR SURE, so they were able to go against their religion in their waning days. It's whacky to us, but apparently condoned by the extremists. Another whacky contradiction is that most Arab males condemn homosexuality between two grown males, but not between two adolescents, or an adult and an adolescent.

Too much of what is O.K. according to some Islamists (such as honor killing) is a cultural tradition, not condoned by the Koran.
 
I totally agree. I think that what people are really trying to point to when they say that Mohammed was a child molester is that Islamic law TODAY excuses child molestation.

Yes, he'd married a Child, but did he told us to do ?
I don't think its wise to compare ourselves to prophets, Prophets got their own reasons of course .
 
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I can't find the exact text of my earlier point about this, but we rational saints find it a tad worrisome that there's more agony about the ages of participants than the involuntary nature of marriages there. It's safe to assume that a rudimentarily consensual marriage between a 14-15 year old and an older man is probably preferable to a blatantly coercive one between a 24-25 year old and an older man.

EDIT: I've also never been impressed by primarily Christian attacks on Mohammed, considering that if traditional Hebrew and Nazarene customs were practiced in the case of Jesus's parents, Mary was likely to be about twelve to thirteen years old when she married Joseph.
 
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Apparently.
I married Iranian girls before their execution | Iranian - Iran News | Jerusalem Post

Tell me, what is the age of consent for young women in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan?

In the Islamic Republic it is illegal to execute a young woman, regardless of her crime, if she is a virgin, he explained. Therefore a "wedding" ceremony is conducted the night before the execution: The young girl is forced to have sexual intercourse with a prison guard - essentially raped by her "husband."

:rofl
Really laughed when I read this ..
That can be a good joke somewhere .
I still can't recognize how this people live, they are making their own verdicts for their own benifit, the worse, involving religion in this mess :S
 
Do you see Christianity encoding marriages at 12 & 13 into law in the U.S.?

Certainly; that was accepted colonial and post-colonial settlement practice for many years. In reality, there seems to be little connection to specific religious tenets so much as the degree of influence any repressive theological doctrine has on a society, whether it be those of Christianity or Islam. Since the influence of Christianity has been somewhat reduced here, societal customs that were at least partially associated with it have also eroded. But really...there's that sense of nostalgia in being back on the topic where you first said I was Goldilocks's wolf, ain't there? :)
 
:rofl
Really laughed when I read this ..
That can be a good joke somewhere .
I still can't recognize how this people live, they are making their own verdicts for their own benifit, the worse, involving religion in this mess :S

I agree. The problem is that they're using the teachings of Mohammed to justify their perversions. Where is the larger population of Islam to hold them accountable for this?
 
How much excess negative baggage should we be expected to tolerate?

It's proportional to how free you expect to claim you are.
 
I agree. The problem is that they're using the teachings of Mohammed to justify their perversions. Where is the larger population of Islam to hold them accountable for this?

True, but let me explain ..
There is something in Islam called "Hadiith" which is a saying said by prophet directly, or indirectly like someone says : I heard/saw the prophet saying/doing ...
Hadiith is divided into 3 parts ( Strong , Good, Weak ) according to the one who said them, or the time which was said etc .

Hadiith is categorized in "Hadiith Committees" and there are many .
As for me, the only committee I trust is Al-Azhar committee as for their last opinion about Niqab was no, its true because I'd never heard about any Hadiith saying that woman must wear Niqab, which means that if there is any Hadiith about Niqab, then its "weak" ..

The same goes to Jihad rules, where all Hadiith I read says that Jihad is to fight against your "Enemies". In Quraan, the word "Enemy" is defined as the one who harms you, so its a duty to "Harm him as they harmed you" no more no less, or even forgiveness is better .

As there are so many committees, so you must expect diversity in opinions, some are wrong, others are right .
But one have his brain to recognize whats right, like when you tell me to bomb my self I will tell you STFU, while am hell sure that they are doing this for themselves for political reasons or whatever .
 
Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux
I agree. The problem is that they're using the teachings of Mohammed to justify their perversions. Where is the larger population of Islam to hold them accountable for this?

Exactly, where indeed. Where I may see the usual suspects on TV trying to find excuses, where are the majority of Muslims. Should the outrages of 9-11 be perpetrated by a Catholic screaming God is Great, he or she would receive international condemnation and isolation from the Church.
 
True, but let me explain ..
There is something in Islam called "Hadiith" which is a saying said by prophet directly, or indirectly like someone says : I heard/saw the prophet saying/doing ...
Hadiith is divided into 3 parts ( Strong , Good, Weak ) according to the one who said them, or the time which was said etc .

Hadiith is categorized in "Hadiith Committees" and there are many .
As for me, the only committee I trust is Al-Azhar committee as for their last opinion about Niqab was no, its true because I'd never heard about any Hadiith saying that woman must wear Niqab, which means that if there is any Hadiith about Niqab, then its "weak" ..

The same goes to Jihad rules, where all Hadiith I read says that Jihad is to fight against your "Enemies". In Quraan, the word "Enemy" is defined as the one who harms you, so its a duty to "Harm him as they harmed you" no more no less, or even forgiveness is better .

As there are so many committees, so you must expect diversity in opinions, some are wrong, others are right .
But one have his brain to recognize whats right, like when you tell me to bomb my self I will tell you STFU, while am hell sure that they are doing this for themselves for political reasons or whatever .

I learned long ago not to trust people who told partial truths, but not the whole truth. You talk about Jihad, without telling my brothers and sisters about the Greater Jihad and the Lesser Jihad. Tell us about the Lesser Jihad.
 

Because there is an imbalance of power in the relationship, with the patient being the more vulnerable party.
Physician-Patient Relationship: Ethical Topic in Medicine

What role should the physician's personal feelings and beliefs play in the physician-patient relationship?


Occasionally, a physician may face requests for services, such as contraception or abortion, which raise a conflict for the physician. Physicians do not have to provide medical services in opposition to their personal beliefs. In addition, it is acceptable to have a nonjudgmental discussion with a patient regarding her need for the service, and to ensure that the patient understands alternative forms of therapy. However, it is never appropriate to proselytize. While the physician may decline to provide the requested service, the patient must be treated as a respected, autonomous individual. Where appropriate, the patient should be provided with resources about how to obtain the desired service.
 
I learned long ago not to trust people who told partial truths, but not the whole truth. You talk about Jihad, without telling my brothers and sisters about the Greater Jihad and the Lesser Jihad. Tell us about the Lesser Jihad.

Greater Jihad : To inhibit yourself from forbidden desires .

Lesser Jihad : To fight your enemies inside the battlefield

Battlefield : "A place where the battle is fought", then there must be 2 fighting parties, where the friend/foe are known . That's how all wars in Islam goes .

About that "suicide bombers" I'd read an answer of a famous Sheikh : Bin Othaimin when asked about bomb suicide :
...... Concerning what some people do from suicide by holding those bombing-tools then attempt their suicide between enemies , then its "self killing" God forbid . And who attempt self killing will be in hell according to prophets Hadiith.......... We see how some people do believe that the suicide killing is a way to be a martyr, God forbid, its not .

Question :
Is it permissible for a Muslim to gloss over the organizers of the suicide bombers or their plans if they are Muslims or infidels if the goal is one which is damaging to a specific country on the grounds that this state is the common enemy of injustice and unfairness, and raped the land where Muslims and infidels together as we hear of the meeting of Christians with Muslims in Palestine to fight the Jews, Please advise us ?

Answer :
Its forbidden to cover the organizers of suicide bombings, and the one who cover them, is considered as cooperator, and the Prophet peace be upon him said :[Curse of God on who covers over the vandal] -Narrated by Muslim
And Vandal means : Doing a criminal act which Islam refuses , that's why its forbidden to cooperate with them .
Allah blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad.

Source: [(obvious opinions about the curriculum advocacy (Part II), p.: 59 - 66) of the scholar Shaykh Ahmad ibn Yahya stellar collection, and a comment: Mansour Hassan bin Aldgrere, i. (Dar curriculum) in Cairo - Egypt]
^
^
Sorry for bad translation, but the dictionary didn't help a lot.

I'd read an article of a book called "Self-bombing, between intolerance and depression" that analyze the exact mental state of the suicide . I think that really goes with suicide bomber's mind.

Anyway What Major Nidal did may not consider a suicide, but still forbidden in Islam for many reasons, least of them is betrayal, "how can you shoot them while they protect you".
 
If Islam is the issue, then how do you explain away the hundreds of millions of peaceful Muslims all over the world?

I want to believe that hundreds of millions of believers are peaceful. I want them to prove it to the rest of the civilized world by standing up in mass protest against those who have hijacked thier religion. Not only will this convince an old islamophobe like me and millions of other peace loving people, but it will also cause a reformation of islam.
 
Well not necessarily. You think it would, but you never know until you are actually faced with that situation. Further there are plenty of conscientious objectors in the military. They serve in non-combat positions. Well by plenty I mean there are some.

Thanks... I understand the fact that you never know how a person will react untill you put them in that situation... Some 'cowards' might lose it and become the most ferocious fighter, while an otherwise ferocious man might find a corner and start crying... you just don't know...

I would have expected that there would be an element of psychological testing as a means to ensure that the highest percentage of soldiers sent into battle are going to be the fierce fighters that is intended, and those showing tendancies that they might be a burden to their squad would be relieved of that position...

Well I suppose anything is possible. Two years ago I would have laughed at the suggestion of MK ULTRA. Now, not so much.

I appreciate the actual willingness to accept the possibility... I felt compelled to bring up the possibility of a mind control experiement gone wrong (or exactly as planned?) in spit of the fact that it could end up becoming a debate on whether or not it exists (which has been declassified, and even my girlfriend was taught about the experiments in her pysch class, so it's a pretty rediculous debate)

The big kicker will be if / when this guy wakes up. If he's got no clue about anything that's going on... well, the one common theme proposed for people psychologically programmed in that way is that they will be killed once their objective is accomplished, and with it being a subconscious program has no recollection of what he did... in some cases as bad as not knowing WHO he is... The entire area being not commonly known / accepted (Yes, there are still people that will deny that mk-ultra exists or that it was any success... but you can bet if there was ANY success, the testing has just gone further underground the prospect of a soldier that will accomplish his objective with no sense of self-preservation beyond that intent)

Though, I will concede THIS is about EQUALLY like with "He was legitimately a muslim extremist that was bent on killing americans".

This is absolutely a possibility, and I've thought about it as soon as word started spreading about his emotional profile.

I've listened to interviews with a Dr specifically on the topic of SSRI's. this was almost a year ago now... so, details like her name and website are a little fuzzy, but the meat of it stuck because I was already semi-aware of the risks of those drugs.

The notes she added are that these drugs do have a side-effect to cause people to commit suicide, have psychotic episodes, increased depression... but most importantly was that these side-effects are most commn in times when the user : stops using it, changes dosages, uses an alternative drug, etc... whenever there is any sort of change in the usage is when these side-effects occur.

Being a psychiatrist, he probably felt he could handle it, or whatever... so switched his dosage or something that caused him to lose his inhibitions... This would also be a potential reason for not releasing his millitary record? (Or has this been released now?)

There is about a 5% chance (based on precedences and total information) that this is NOT the case... now, there may be OTHER situations... but seriously 95% change these types of drugs were a factor.


I initially wanted this man to die, and I'd being lying if I didn't admit I'm a death penalty hypocrite. I don't normally support the death penalty because I don't believe that our justice system is in the business of dispensing vengeance, and that is all the death penalty is. But this incident is one of those that made me immediately wish for this guys death.

But you are right, we don't have all the information. That's kind of been my point from day one. In the face of all this nonsensical anti-Islam fear mongering and ignorant rhetoric I think that a simple call for reason wouldn't be too much to ask for. Apparently it is.

But you and I and a few others can contemplate this issue without gathering our pitchforks and torches.

Look, you got a dog that's got rabies and it could bite anyone at anytime... there's nothing that can be done, so you put it out of it's misery.

Let him explain his case, but regardless he was almost definately in 'temporary insanity' category at least, but you can't forget that this guy IS in the millitary. SO he is far more dangerous if he's mentally instable.

As for the muslim thing... yes, I suppose it's POSSIBLE that he was simply a muslim extremist that came to america, got his citizenship, joined the millitary just so that one day YEARS LATER and a degree in psychiatry (which is a Doctorate if I'm not mistaken) later he could get his taste of american blood... yes, there's about a 5% chance that this could be the case (or something similar)... but today in my local paper, I see this guys face and the article reads that this guy is connected to 9-11...

I can't help but think 'WTHell if this guy was associated with 9-11, why hasn't he been questioned about that connection?? They would have pictures a dossier, it probably would have even been announced on the news...

We should just face reality that the most likely scenario is that this guy was using anti-depressant drugs and had a psychotic episode of a side-effect for whatever reason.... it's the case in just about every school shooting there's ever been in the US ... as well as canada...

Now, this guy needs to be held accountable for his actions... but a greater question (ONCE this is determined concretely) is how come this drugs are still being sold publicly and prescribed when they have such dire potential consequences (it' even been added to their drug insert).
 
If Islam is the issue, then how do you explain away the hundreds of millions of peaceful Muslims all over the world?

How do you explain why all those peace loving, everybody love everybody Muslims can't put Islamic extremism to bed, forever? Why aren't Muslims in the street right now voicing their outrage over Islamic extremism? Why do Islamofacists find sanctuary in the Muslim community? Why don't Muslims, who know of extemist mosques, expose those mosques and the people who frequent them?
 
I want to believe that hundreds of millions of believers are peaceful. I want them to prove it to the rest of the civilized world by standing up in mass protest against those who have hijacked thier religion. Not only will this convince an old islamophobe like me and millions of other peace loving people, but it will also cause a reformation of islam.

How do you explain why all those peace loving, everybody love everybody Muslims can't put Islamic extremism to bed, forever? Why aren't Muslims in the street right now voicing their outrage over Islamic extremism? Why do Islamofacists find sanctuary in the Muslim community? Why don't Muslims, who know of extemist mosques, expose those mosques and the people who frequent them?


Muslims allover the world got much bigger worries than hold a big banner and walk with it down the street . Its not their problem if you watch too much TV .
 
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