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12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

The assessment of the process is sound.

One day a seed takes root and then the person becomes radical.

How long it takes is the only question.





So when do think Laila will crack..... Come on man.... there are a billion muslims... People don't need god to go on a kill crazy rampage, all they need is thier mankindedness, God is just the excuse possibly in this case....
 
The assessment of the process is sound.

One day a seed takes root and then the person becomes radical.

How long it takes is the only question.

So my brother who has been in the British army for 12 years is a suspect just because he happens to share the religion as the enemy?

Honestly your posts astound me sometimes by their close mindedness.
 
So my brother who has been in the British army for 12 years is a suspect just because he happens to share the same faith as the enemy?

Honestly your posts astound me sometimes by their close mindedness.




Thank him for his service in the army of our greatest ally! :thumbs:
 
Didn't take long for people to start making excuses for clown. In a couple days, he's gonna be the victim.
 
It's becoming clear to me that from day to day we can't know when a Muslim will suddenly wake up and decide that they should take the Koran literally.

Today, a peace loving, devout, quiet, happy person...

Tomorrow, a radical.

I think thats a bit far....

I think Reverend is spot on here.

The latest real count of the amount of muslims in the U.S. is 2.5 million by the Pew Research Center this year. That's a lower number than some other sources (Encyclopedia Britannica reported 4.7 in 2004, CAIR 6 to 7 mil in 2001), but we'll go with that. That's essentially one muslim for ever 122 non-muslims in this country.

How many accounts do we have per year of Muslim Americans going off the deep end and committing crimes in the name of their religion?

Lets give it a HUGE benefit of the doubt and go really high, say 100 a year across the entire U.S.

That's still 1 muslim becoming "a radical" for every 250,000 muslims per year. The difference in ratio there between "radical law breaking muslim" and normal muslim there is 2000 times greater than the ratio between muslim and non-muslim citizen.

And that's going on the high side of saying that 100 muslims per year kill people or try to kill people due to the religion, which frankly even if we take the notion of the news not wanting to report it into account still to me seems a bit high. But lets go higher.

Lets say 1,000 of them do it.

Again that's still 1 in every 2500, still 20 times the ratio of Muslim to Non-Muslims in this country.

Starting to massively restrict the rights of muslims in this country due to the acts of what truly comes down to a minority amount of them acting out is the nothing but pure, unadulterated, raping of the constitution and the freedoms this country was built on.
 
OORRRRRRRRR....it could boil down to a mentally imbalanced individual lashing out at those who have harassed him and the system that is forcing him into some kind of nightmare by sending him to fight a war that he is against.

Would you concede there is a difference between a man who kills because he is having a mental breakdown and happens to be Muslim and a Muslim who kills because he is executing what he believes is his religious duty to murder infidels?

Then, why was he heard to be shouting "Alahu ackbar"?

And this from the Guardian of all places: Fort Hood gunman Nidal Malik Hasan shouted 'Allahu Akbar' as he opened fire | World news | guardian.co.uk

Agents were checking back on website postings by a man who identified himself as Nidal Hasan that appeared sympathetic to suicide bombings.

Sounds to me like the "Muslim who kills because he is executing what he believes is his religious duty to murder infidels" option is gaining ground.
 
Islam is a way of life masquerading as a religion. Pure subversion.

Muslims first allegiance is submission Islam regardless of how liberal, democratic or authoritarian the society they live in is.
 
So when do think Laila will crack..... Come on man.... there are a billion muslims... People don't need god to go on a kill crazy rampage, all they need is thier mankindedness, God is just the excuse possibly in this case....

She may never crack. But then again, the seed may take root after she sees Western culture taking her future children down the wrong road and she decides that she doesn't want her children to become that Westernized.

What we can't deny is that Islam, literal and fundamental, will still be there, unchanged and old school, waiting to be taken up by those willing to accept it's instruction.
 
Didn't take long for people to start making excuses for clown. In a couple days, he's gonna be the victim.

No one is making excuses and no one will make him a victim. You cannot justify murder, especially in this context.
 
So when do think Laila will crack..... Come on man.... there are a billion muslims... People don't need god to go on a kill crazy rampage, all they need is thier mankindedness, God is just the excuse possibly in this case....

The religious thing always reminds me of something more close to me, and is geeky, when I hear about this stuff. I'm sure someone will say I'm "defending" this guy, which I'm not and would be a laughable claim. But this is my issue at times with saying definitively "X caused it, see, because he said/did Y".

I am a geek at heart and played D&D for years upon years. During that time I heard every horrible thing about it possible, and all the horror stories. The ever popular ones of people murdering, or attempting to murder someone, and stating that its because they wanted to "level up in the game" or because "I thought I had powers" or "we were acting out the game" or whatever other idiotic thing. And the press and the religious folks and those looking for ways to sensationalize stories or attack those that are different leap upon it talking about how D&D caused these people to do this.

However, when you look at their history there's mental disorders, there's bad home environments, there's ostricization and extreme bullying, etc.

Yet no, its the games fault.

Its the same thing with people blaming "Doom" for Columbine, Blink 182 for their child hanging themselves, or a plethora of movies for a person taking action.

Often times, things act as a trigger or as a way for the brain to rationalize out what it wants to do rather than the true cause. That's not to say it can't add into it. Sure, maybe roleplaying isn't good for someone that is deeply seeking to disconnect with reality. Sure, maybe watching a vigilante movie isn't good for a guy with psychotic delusions. Sure, they likely played a part in it. But its ludicrous to say that its those things faults specifically, because if that was the case and not all the exterior factors that also played into it, we'd be having hordes of people who played First Person Shooters annihilating schools all over.

In many ways Religion is the same way...be it an extreme christian activist killing an abortion clinic doc or a muslim extremist shooting at our troops.

Religion most definitely had a part in it, and may've helped motivate it, but it likely didn't singularly cause it. 2.5 million muslims aren't going into army bases and shooting people. Not even 5% of that population is doign that. So to act like its Religion alone, and that other things about his mental state, the way he was treated, and other issues is an ignorant task to do and just doesn't stand up to logic.

That doesn't excuse what he did, in any way. Finding the reason for why something happened is not the same as saying what happened is okay or fine. It doesn't say that whe he did wasn't religiously motivated, it seems clearly it was. What its saying is its likely far, far more complex then simply "he's a muslim so he killed people", because reality and logic just completely are lacking from that accessment.
 
She may never crack. But then again, the seed may take root after she sees Western culture taking her future children down the wrong road and she decides that she doesn't want her children to become that Westernized.

What we can't deny is that Islam, literal and fundamental, will still be there, unchanged and old school, waiting to be taken up by those willing to accept it's instruction.




Laila's pretty westernized. Have you seen her pics? :lol:




look man, there are extreme savage islamic fascists.... But they are the minority. If it were as you say one click away from a kill crazy rampage for these 2.5 billion people, then we would be not only in a world of hurt, but be at gunpoint conversion.



if 2.5 billion thought as the savages did. There isn't an army big enough to stop em. :lol:
 
She may never crack. But then again, the seed may take root after she sees Western culture taking her future children down the wrong road and she decides that she doesn't want her children to become that Westernized.

What we can't deny is that Islam, literal and fundamental, will still be there, unchanged and old school, waiting to be taken up by those willing to accept it's instruction.

Lol, so I 'may' crack?

Western culture doesn't take children down the wrong road. Parenting and lack of discipline and respect does.
My children will be given more freedom than I was given and I happen to think I turned out quite well.
 
The religious thing always reminds me of something more close to me, and is geeky, when I hear about this stuff. I'm sure someone will say I'm "defending" this guy, which I'm not and would be a laughable claim. But this is my issue at times with saying definitively "X caused it, see, because he said/did Y".

I am a geek at heart and played D&D for years upon years. During that time I heard every horrible thing about it possible, and all the horror stories. The ever popular ones of people murdering, or attempting to murder someone, and stating that its because they wanted to "level up in the game" or because "I thought I had powers" or "we were acting out the game" or whatever other idiotic thing. And the press and the religious folks and those looking for ways to sensationalize stories or attack those that are different leap upon it talking about how D&D caused these people to do this.

However, when you look at their history there's mental disorders, there's bad home environments, there's ostricization and extreme bullying, etc.

Yet no, its the games fault.

Its the same thing with people blaming "Doom" for Columbine, Blink 182 for their child hanging themselves, or a plethora of movies for a person taking action.

Often times, things act as a trigger or as a way for the brain to rationalize out what it wants to do rather than the true cause. That's not to say it can't add into it. Sure, maybe roleplaying isn't good for someone that is deeply seeking to disconnect with reality. Sure, maybe watching a vigilante movie isn't good for a guy with psychotic delusions. Sure, they likely played a part in it. But its ludicrous to say that its those things faults specifically, because if that was the case and not all the exterior factors that also played into it, we'd be having hordes of people who played First Person Shooters annihilating schools all over.

In many ways Religion is the same way...be it an extreme christian activist killing an abortion clinic doc or a muslim extremist shooting at our troops.

Religion most definitely had a part in it, and may've helped motivate it, but it likely didn't singularly cause it. 2.5 million muslims aren't going into army bases and shooting people. Not even 5% of that population is doign that. So to act like its Religion alone, and that other things about his mental state, the way he was treated, and other issues is an ignorant task to do and just doesn't stand up to logic.

That doesn't excuse what he did, in any way. Finding the reason for why something happened is not the same as saying what happened is okay or fine. It doesn't say that whe he did wasn't religiously motivated, it seems clearly it was. What its saying is its likely far, far more complex then simply "he's a muslim so he killed people", because reality and logic just completely are lacking from that accessment.




exactly....

not even .001% though.


Let someone say I am defending this islamic fascist savage..... I haven't had any points in a while. :lol:
 
No, he's not kidding you. This is how he thinks. This is how many extremists on this forum think.

I resent your characterization. Many people are re-thinking their positions on Islamic acts of offensive Jihad due to this shooting. Maybe you will, too.
 
if 2.5 billion thought as the savages did. There isn't an army big enough to stop em. :lol:

If a sizable portion of that 2.5 billion aligned themselves philosophically against the minuscule portion of "savages" and committed themselves to the eradication of their extremism, the problem would be solved overnight.
 
Laila's pretty westernized. Have you seen her pics? :lol:

:rofl
And the most amusing thing is that those were my most modest pictures o_O

if 2.5 billion thought as the savages did. There isn't an army big enough to stop em. :lol:

Good thing only a small minority thing like that.
 
If a sizable portion of that 2.5 billion aligned themselves philosophically against the minuscule portion of "savages" and committed themselves to the eradication of their extremism, the problem would be solved overnight.




True....


If the majority of people against abortion...

If the majority of people against poverty

If the majority of people against driving while texting

If the majority of people......


point being, until we stop making excused for our apathy, This argument, one I used to use all the time, doesn't hold water in the big picture of things.


yes, MANY MANY muslims are apathetic, or quietly support these savages in certain hot bed countries. but for the vast majority, they are like you and I and just want to live thier lives. :shrug:
 
If a sizable portion of that 2.5 billion aligned themselves philosophically against the minuscule portion of "savages" and committed themselves to the eradication of their extremism, the problem would be solved overnight.

No it wouldn't.

The problem lies in issues surrounding uneducation, corruption and poverty etc, many countries where extremism is alive. These problems are close by.
You will not solve this problem through just getting a bunch of Muslims turning around and telling the extremists 'You are wrong'. You remove their support base by removing the reasons they exist.
 
Could not agree more.

"Being made fun of" is definitely a pathetic excuse; he was also a psychiatrist and is supposed to be more aware of how to deal with such responses from others.
Sure, if all it boils down to is "being made fun of." It's quite possible it was much more than that, more long term. Further you have no idea what this individuals mental state was prior to and during this incident. There may be many factors. You can't take his profession and say "well he should have known himself better, he's a psych doctor." If he's having an emotional breakdown his perspective becomes skewed, reality changes.

There is something very wrong with the fact he was allowed to stay in the military when months ago his postings on the internet were discovered, where he was found to be cheering radical Islam in other troop attacks, and clearly voicing anti-American sentiment.
I agree. If the military actually had information that one of their officers was making comments like this they should have done something. Of course I've yet to actually have any of your characterizations substantiated, but let's not wait for a detailed assessment of what he actually said. Saying Muslims in Iraq should stand up against Americans isn't cheering radical Islam. It's voicing dissent about our invasion of Iraq and making statements that should have had him thrown out of the military. Equating a suicide bomber who attacks military targets to a soldier throwing himself on a grenade or a kamikaze pilot isn't "cheering" radical Islam (which would actually have to consist of him making specific comments encouraging suicide bombers and such...which he may have, but not to the blog entries I've read). It's a very skewed rationale he had in my opinion, but I didn't see him encouraging Muslims blow themselves up.

Let's just cut some of the myopic bull**** that some here are proliferating. The majority of Iraqi's don't want us there, they haven't wanted us there for some time. The majority of Iraqi's are Muslim. The majority of insurgents are Muslim. Resisting the American occupation of Iraq doesn't make you a radical Muslim, it makes you someone who is resisting the American occupation. There is a difference between someone who is simply a Muslim insurgent and someone who is a radical Muslim extremist.

The limp-wristed left wants to turn this into a "must defend the minority" campaign about being mean to Muslims.
And the intolerant, ignorant, and extremist right is making this all about the perils of evil Islam and playing at their usual rush to conclusions about things. I see the same thing in the ME forum all the time. The majority of extremist anti-Islamics that argue in there are completely ****ing clueless about the history of the region and how things actually played out. Like our friend mbig here...he'll take anything that supports his most extremist point of view and call it fact. He's yet to produce an objective source for his claims...or even a remotely unambiguous source. If a Muslim is involved in a death it's because of religion...period...that's how the thinks.

That's not the point. The real issue is that American lives are lost because of "political correctness" and being afraid to offend those who hate America.
Patently false and completely unsubstantiated. This is the anti-Islam fallback and it plays out here all to often. Rather than actually articulate an intelligent case that proves your assertions and justifies the sweeping and ignorant condemnations that are being cast the anti-Islam goon squad decries "PC PC PC" and just snickers amongst themselves as if they have all the answers because they can link a dozen websites on the net that say Muslims are bad and Islam is evil.

Yes, reason and intelligent examination of the issue is so overrated. Why not go with your "gut" and say what you "know or believe in your heart." Remember those savage blacks who wanted to rape our women? :roll:
 
exactly....

not even .001% though.

Let someone say I am defending this islamic fascist savage..... I haven't had any points in a while. :lol:

This is actually an over arching issue I have with people on a lot of things with Politics.

They will have a legitimate, recognizable, actually reasonable gripe...

...in this case anger and a problem with muslim extremists who press their religion to far, and possibly even a culture that is afraid to point that out before hand...

...and then they explode it and over blow it to such a huge extent that no only does their actual legitimate issue get washed away, but they say SUCH outlandish things that it actually makes some people second guess that actual legitimate thought due to the insanity that some of those originally pushing it immedietely move onto.

Nevermind the ironic dark humor of the fact that part of the reason our culture IS so afraid to point out the extremism before hand is in part caused also due to a segment of the population that think having Palestinean Parents and wearing traditional garb (such as what Mc.No.Spin originally presented as reason enough that he shouldn't be allowed in the military) is enough to be considered "risky extremist behavior".

I always wonder how much more support various political views or movements could get if they'd focus on reality rather than the hyped up or trumped up threats/scenarios/interpritations.
 
:rofl
And the most amusing thing is that those were my most modest pictures o_O

I noticed you've made your profile private. I feel like I have missed out on something fantastic!
 
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