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12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

rebelbuc said:
I guess that the difference between Islamic Fundamentalism and Radical Islamic Jihad is all in the interpretation of the Koran... you know... especially that part about subjugation of all infidels. It looks like the only religions that have subjugation clauses in them are Islam, Communism, and CO2ism (aka Gorism).
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The proper terminology is "Islamism" and it's idea putting Islam back into state politics.

Jihadism is a militant version of Islamism that takes the literal (lesser) meaning of Jihad-- As a physical struggle.

Islamic Modernism is the non-militant version of trying to change the status quo of the State. These, by the way, are much more numerous than Jihadism.

Islamic Modernists are those in support of the current state, which are quite unusual characters.

and so on.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
....Or did he just go postal on his co-workers because he's nuts (*and his religion played a role in his insanity)?
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There's a name for this terrible mental illness. It's called "Sudden Jihad Syndrome." We've seen an outbreak of this illness over the course of the last year. There is a US government health agency attempting to deal with this outbreak of mental illness. It's called the FBI. They've been involved in arrests and shootouts with mentally ill American Jihadists over the last year. With Major Hasan the medical intervention came too late to save your brothers and sisters.
 
Jackboot said:
This man was waiting in the wings for the perfect attack, this cannot be disputed.
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Who put him in the wings? For what terrorist group was he acting as a "sleeper agent"? These terms have meanings. You clearly don't understand them.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Who put him in the wings? For what terrorist group was he acting as a "sleeper agent"? These terms have meanings. You clearly don't understand them.
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He didn't have to be part of a terrorist organization to fight for Allahs cause. All he had to do was read his Qur'an, be a good muslim and wage jihad. That is what is required of muslims. Read the Qur'an. Take it literally. Many a muslim do.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Who put him in the wings? For what terrorist group was he acting as a "sleeper agent"? These terms have meanings. You clearly don't understand them.
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No...I do not understand jihad, do you?

I do not understand the ideology of "we love death, as you love life"?

I do not understand a whole segment of our world, as billions of muslims read and believe their bible, I do not get it at all.

Do you know something the rest of us do not, if so, please, please enlighten me?
 
SgtRock said:
He didn't have to be part of a terrorist organization to fight for Allahs cause. All he had to do was read his Qur'an, be a good muslim and wage jihad. That is what is required of muslims. Read the Qur'an. Take it literally. Many a muslim do.
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No. Lesser Jihad becomes popular around the time of ibn taymiyya (and at that it's taken out of context). Lesser Jihad is defensive, and not aggressive. Aggression, especially against ahl al-katrib, is sinful. Martyrdom comes from Shia tradition, and most Shias believe there was only one true martyr.


etc, etc.
 
Arch Enemy said:
No. Lesser Jihad becomes popular around the time of ibn taymiyya (and at that it's taken out of context). Lesser Jihad is defensive, and not aggressive. Aggression, especially against ahl al-katrib, is sinful. Martyrdom comes from Shia tradition, and most Shias believe there was only one true martyr.


etc, etc.
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What eva. tell that to the thousands of human bombs when you get to the afterlife.
 
If he really is a terrorist, "sleeper-cell" Jihadist he was a really, really poor recruit. A real "sleeper", inside the military, no less, would have relished the thought of being deployed to Afghanistan where he could have inflicted much more crushing damage on the American war machine.

But he didn't want to deploy and have the chance to go out in a blaze of Jihadist glory. He wanted out of the Army completely.

Really, really poor recruit.
 
Arcana XV said:
If he really is a terrorist, "sleeper-cell" Jihadist he was a really, really poor recruit. A real "sleeper", inside the military, no less, would have relished the thought of being deployed to Afghanistan where he could have inflicted much more crushing damage on the American war machine.

But he didn't want to deploy and have the chance to go out in a blaze of Jihadist glory. He wanted out of the Army completely.

Really, really poor recruit.
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I disagree, the other soldiers would have been armed, he struck gold on federal land, where soldiers are not allowed to protect themselves.
 
Arcana XV said:
If he really is a terrorist, "sleeper-cell" Jihadist he was a really, really poor recruit. A real "sleeper", inside the military, no less, would have relished the thought of being deployed to Afghanistan where he could have inflicted much more crushing damage on the American war machine.

But he didn't want to deploy and have the chance to go out in a blaze of Jihadist glory. He wanted out of the Army completely.

Really, really poor recruit.
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keep not calling things what they are. The PC gods will be proud of you Arcana. Im quite wasted, becoming incoherent. blah blah blah. goodnight...................................................................................................:rock
 
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Navy Pride said:
Getting back on topic I think now that there can be no question that he is a terrorist and committed and act of terrorism against this country...........Anyone that does not believe that is just kidding themselves
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How can there be "no question"??

All I've seen was a bunch of people scared of muslims ranting on and on about what flavour of muslim he was and why he was out to kill americans??

The reality of the situation is that IF this was the case :
- He became a citizen
- joined the millitary
- became a psychiatrist
- and then waited to be deployed
BEFORE going out, grabbing some guns and starting to shoot up the base...

I hate to break it to you, but the reality is that this situation most closely resembles the MO of a psychiatrist that was depressed, self-diagnosed himself a prescription of some SSRI drug that created in him a psychotic episode where he simply grabbed his guns and started shooting

SgtRock said:
He didn't have to be part of a terrorist organization to fight for Allahs cause. All he had to do was read his Qur'an, be a good muslim and wage jihad. That is what is required of muslims. Read the Qur'an. Take it literally. Many a muslim do.
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Oh, so this guys guilty of being a muslim, therefore it's not a simple mass shooting, but a 'terrorist attack'... come on... seriously?
 
SgtRock said:
keep not calling things what they are. The PC gods will be proud of you Arcana. Im quite wasted, becoming incoherent. blah blah blah. goodnight...................................................................................................:rock
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Yeah, go have some coffee or sleep it off or something. :doh

I actually haven't made up my mind one way or the other about this guy, but I'm definitely leaning towards nutcase with a dash of Allah Akhbar thrown in. :shrug:
 
Jackboot said:
I disagree, the other soldiers would have been armed, he struck gold on federal land, where soldiers are not allowed to protect themselves.
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Perhaps. But something still doesn't click for me. As a sleeper cell in the military this guy had the potential to do a lot more damage than he did. Something's missing and I can't put my finger on it...
 
Arcana XV said:
Perhaps. But something still doesn't click for me. As a sleeper cell in the military this guy had the potential to do a lot more damage than he did. Something's missing and I can't put my finger on it...
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I can agree with this...

Most likely he was on anti-depressants and, like the drug inserts mostly say, can cause psychotic episodes as a side-effect. The other factors are also there : A dr that can self-prescribe, secluded as an american muslim, not really wanting to go to war, among other stresses that had been discussed, are all factors that when you add in an anti=depressant has the potential to cause a person to 'snap'.

Also, why were the issues initially reported :
- that there were 2 or 3 other shooters
- that he had been killed for 3 hours before being declared wounded
??

I guess people rather hate-on muslims...
 
Arcana XV said:
Perhaps. But something still doesn't click for me. As a sleeper cell in the military this guy had the potential to do a lot more damage than he did. Something's missing and I can't put my finger on it...
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Just don't over think this, this man was obviously working himself in to a frenzy, and when the call came to go to the theater, he decided to act! It doesn't have to be a spectacular event, every time one of these people act, this is what I think people are missing. It only has to be the faith calling them to jihad, he thinks he is going to heaven, most other religions tell us, they will go to hell.
 
SgtRock said:
What eva. tell that to the thousands of human bombs when you get to the afterlife.
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Every single one of them are going to hell, according to the Qu'ran, according to reputable hadiths, and according to the greatest law of the land

MINE.
 
BmanMcfly said:
I can agree with this...

Most likely he was on anti-depressants and, like the drug inserts mostly say, can cause psychotic episodes as a side-effect. The other factors are also there : A dr that can self-prescribe, secluded as an american muslim, not really wanting to go to war, among other stresses that had been discussed, are all factors that when you add in an anti=depressant has the potential to cause a person to 'snap'.

Also, why were the issues initially reported :
- that there were 2 or 3 other shooters
- that he had been killed for 3 hours before being declared wounded
??

I guess people rather hate-on muslims...
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This is just absurd, I have never seen in my lifetime, such a large number of americans, willing to defend and rationalize such a terrible act of terror!
Just listen to yourself, or read your own words, you sound insane!:confused:
 
BmanMcfly said:
I can agree with this...

Most likely he was on anti-depressants and, like the drug inserts mostly say, can cause psychotic episodes as a side-effect. The other factors are also there : A dr that can self-prescribe, secluded as an american muslim, not really wanting to go to war, among other stresses that had been discussed, are all factors that when you add in an anti=depressant has the potential to cause a person to 'snap'.

Also, why were the issues initially reported :
- that there were 2 or 3 other shooters
- that he had been killed for 3 hours before being declared wounded
??

I guess people rather hate-on muslims...
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I've thought from the start that this whole thing made little sense. The initial weird and confusing reports only added to it. My first thought when I heard he's a psychiatrist and that he had "issues" was that he was self-medicating and that it only made his growing problems worse. But I also think that his particular brand of Islam didn't help matters at all.
 
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Jackboot said:
Just don't over think this, this man was obviously working himself in to a frenzy, and when the call came to go to the theater, he decided to act! It doesn't have to be a spectacular event, every time one of these people act, this is what I think people are missing. It only has to be the faith calling them to jihad, he thinks he is going to heaven, most other religions tell us, they will go to hell.
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I would agree if the whole picture clearly showed that this man was a "sleeper". I don't think he was. Sure, his religion and his beliefs played a big part in the end. The reports that he was looking for a wife but couldn't find one that was pious enough and would wear hijab show that he is definitely not a moderate Muslim. He's a Fundamentalist. But this fact alone does not mean that he was involved in some kind of international terror plot. There are other signs that something else was going on.

Unless he talks and when he does he tells the truth, we'll never really know.
 
Jackboot said:
This is just absurd, I have never seen in my lifetime, such a large number of americans, willing to defend and rationalize such a terrible act of terror!
Just listen to yourself, or read your own words, you sound insane!:confused:
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I don't think it sounds insane at all. It makes perfect sense. This is not an open and shut case of Islamic terror. There are too many things that don't add up. I have no doubt whatsoever that in the final moment right before he stood up and started shooting, his heart and mind were with his god. And that's assuming that the shouts of "Allah Akhbar" actually took place. Considering the number of false reports surrounding this case, you never know.

But I also have little doubt that whatever made this guy snap in the end involved a whole lot more than just his religion. It was a chain reaction of small things, which taken individually seem pretty minor, but when you look at the whole picture you see warning signs all over the place.

Read this, it's an absolutely fascinating read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/us/09reconstruct.html?_r=1

edit: And also, no one is defending anyone. For my part, I'm just trying to understand why this happened. If we don't try to understand how the mind of a terrorist works, we'll never be able to defeat them. Not that I'm yet saying that this guy is a terrorist. I'm just saying...just in case.
 
Retired Lt. Col. Ralph Peters offers a bit of clarity about how this situation is being handled.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUCOoatudP4"]YouTube- Ralph Peters "Offended" By Obama Ft. Hood Speech, Slams George Casey[/ame]
 
Dr_Patrick said:
So he pretty much said the same anti-Muslim crap that's been going around thus far by many others on the far right. What a big surprise. :roll:
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Your joking right?

The fact is, the man that committed this killing spree was a radical Muslim that murdered those people in the name of Islam.

Those are the facts pal... DEAL WITH IT!

.
 
Folks,

We're lost as a people. We can't bring ourselves to utter the name of the group who have repeatedly tried, and sometimes succeeded, in killing American citizens on American soil.

No one serious is suggesting that the desert religion called Islam is responsible. But at the same time no serious person is denying that over the last decade we have experienced a series of attempted acts of terrorism by people who are acting in the name of their deity.

If we had experienced an unending series of attempted attacks by people like Timothy McVeigh I would suggest that we have a problem with some Christians committing acts of terrorism in the name of their god. And no one on this forum would have the slightest problem with this characterization. That's because xtianity is not protected by the mantle of political correctness.

There is a problem we have with an enemy within. The enemy is not Islam. The enemy is those people who commit savage acts of terrorism against their fellow Americans based on the belief that to do so some how serves their god.

I ask over and over again how can we prevent radicalized American Muslims from becoming "Lone Wolf" terrorists from killing our brothers and sisters without violating the Constitution? People on the Right don't seem to be concerned with the Constitution, but the people on the Left seem to think that American citizens on American soil should simply absorb the death and mayhem. We are lost as a people.
 
Grim17 said:
Your joking right?

The fact is, the man that committed this killing spree was a radical Muslim that murdered those people in the name of Islam.

Those are the facts pal... DEAL WITH IT!

.
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He was on a notoriously conservative-slanting show, Hole'Reilly's show isn't the best place to debut "facts" unless you only want to appeal to conservatives or maybe hope that MSNBC will pick up clips and use them to vilify the right. Not many people are going to see this as "factual" or objective, Grim.

And as much as I trust the judgment of military personnel, they can be subjective too.
 
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