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Obama administration: Toss wiretap lawsuit

aps said:
Hello? You're going to make that assertion and then not back it up? Talk about unbelievable! :rofl
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It's not an assertion, it's fact.

Obama (D-IL), Yea

U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

BTW, if you had done your homework here, you'd quickly ascertain for yourself that he didn't change his mind. Number one, Hillary voted Nay and brought this fact up during the Democratic Primary....she was ignored.

Two, Obama's problem with the wiretapping wasn't the legality....it was the immunity given companies who had allowed the fed gov to access records. You'll note today, THAT is the issue he changed his mind on. He wanted to prosecute telcoms for giving the Bush Admin access to records....he had NO problem with wiretaps whatsoever, there was NO change in minds here.
 
And here of course is Obama extending the Patriot Act, in detail, extending HIS right to access company records that he so vociferously opposed during Bush's tenure.

Obama Supports Extending Patriot Act Provisions

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration supports extending three key provisions of the Patriot Act that are due to expire at the end of the year, the Justice Department told Congress in a letter made public Tuesday.

Lawmakers and civil rights groups had been pressing the Democratic administration to say whether it wants to preserve the post-Sept. 11 law's authority to access business records, as well as monitor so-called "lone wolf" terrorists and conduct roving wiretaps.
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And does anyone want to guess what his coming into office and being able to bring lawsuits against telcoms would mean.......oh...that's right....under trillions in lawsuits, the telcoms would be forced to...declare bankruptcies and the government...like banks and insurance cos and auto manufacturers...would be government owned...not THATS an intrusion into all of our lives but.....his vote went unnoticed by those sheeple who voted for Obama.
 
aps said:
I don't see this as a broken promise by Obama. At the time he made allegations, he was not privy to the intelligence that the then White House had. Now that he has a more complete picture as to what this lawsuit would divulge, he has changed his position. I don't have a problem with a changed position when the person is provided more detailed intelligence.
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He should have been smart enough to know that he didn't know as much as Bush did about the situation and didn't have access to all the intelligence, so he should have kept his pie hole shut on the subject.

His poor judgement wasn't in contueing the program, but in raving on and on about discontinueing it, knowing damn well that he didn't know, nor understand the whole story.

I wasn't here during the election, obviously, but I said then that he would never keep this and several other promises, because when he got to the Oval Office, he was going to be met by serveral military personel. The guys that have permenant jobs at the WH ans don't worry about getting fired. They don't have to worry about getting fired, so they are able to give the president no-bull **** answers to his question, even if it's not what he wants to hear. The first day, he met with them, they showed him The Binder, the one that only the prez gets to see and said, "All those promises you made about ending electronic surveilance of foreign phone calls? Yeah, get ready to go ahead and break those".
 
PeteEU said:
What alternative dimension do you come from? :2wave: I mean seriously, the US government regardless of party colour has spied on its own citizens since forever. In the 1940s it was against "nazies and japs", in the 1950s to this century it was "commies, lefties and others undesirables" and now days it is anyone with even a remote link to the Islamic world. And that is not even including those Presidents and heads of the intelligence communities that used their positions to spy on rivals..

And like it or not, it is not "government" that is doing this, it is so called well meaning elected officials that often demand it and in some rare cases it is elected officials that are not well meaning but hell bent on gaining more power. Government is only the tool. And dont think the private sector is any better.
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Back then, warrantless wiretaps were used to cripple the 20 million strong KKK. Warrantless wiretaps were also used to expose Communist operatives at the highest levels of government and cripple their network that had existed since before WW2.
 
danarhea said:
When Bush was spying on Americans, I called for his impeachment. Now that it turns out that Obama is doing the same, I call for his impeachment. Spying on Americans is not something that America does. It is something that the old Soviet Union did. It is not a good thing to know that our last 2 presidents support Soviet policies, and taking actions that suppress freedom, rather than enhance it.

Obama should resign his presidency over this, and if the American people have any cahonas at all, they should unelect each and every Democrat and Republican that supported Bush in this, and who are supporting Obama now, either directly, or by their unamerican inaction.

This is disgusting. Citizens should not be afraid of their government. The government should be afraid of its citizens.
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American said:
I call bull****, it was never proven that he was spying on Americans.
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The TSP is the program most people are referring to when they talk about "warrantless wiretapping." In this program, if the government had reason to believe that an individual was related to a foreign terrorist group, then they had the option to listen to that persons communications when they reasonably believed that the intended recipient was outside the United States. The program was nowhere near as broad as most people think it was.

WillRockwell said:
It was proven that the NSA has gathered and stored every email written by every American. Is that spying?
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Link?
 
apdst said:
Back then, warrantless wiretaps were used to......
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Let's not forget wire intercepted during the Civil War and those intercepted during WW1.
 
aps said:
I appreciate your providing me with your thoughts and the links. Whether I agree with your conclusions is another issue. ;)
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I'm telling you....your ascertian he's changed his mind after further info is dead wrong. You may not agree with me....although I've put fact behind my statements....what you said was incorrect, in fact, flat out wrong.

You didn't do your homework.
 
American said:
That started long before Bush was elected, where have you been?
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That's not true, they didn't even have the capability before Bush was elected. Do you just say this stuff hoping people will nod their heads and believe you? Every post of yours is a Hail Mary pass.
 
RightinNYC said:
Link?
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Since April, when it was disclosed that the intercepts of some private communications of Americans went beyond legal limits in late 2008 and early 2009, several Congressional committees have been investigating. Those inquiries have led to concerns in Congress about the agency’s ability to collect and read domestic e-mail messages of Americans on a widespread basis, officials said. Supporting that conclusion is the account of a former N.S.A. analyst who, in a series of interviews, described being trained in 2005 for a program in which the agency routinely examined large volumes of Americans’ e-mail messages without court warrants. Two intelligence officials confirmed that the program was still in operation
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/us/17nsa.html

According to former NSA analyst Russell Tice, NSA was data mining including ALL credit card information, ALL phone records, ALL email addresses, etc, are all part of the NSA effort, on ALL AMERICANS... even if they never communicated with anyone overseas.
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[ame=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#28802588]Countdown with Keith Olbermann Countdown with Keith Olbermann[/ame]
 
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Charles Martel said:
I'm telling you....your ascertian he's changed his mind after further info is dead wrong. You may not agree with me....although I've put fact behind my statements....what you said was incorrect, in fact, flat out wrong.

You didn't do your homework.
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I wasn't talking about that conclusion. I was talking about your conclusionin the second post where you discussed the Patriot Act.

Sure, I may have been wrong. I don't have a problem with someone calling me on it. But to claim that I was flat out wrong is rather extreme. It would all depend on how you view the facts in the situation. For example: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/02/10/obama/
 
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j-mac said:
Hmmmm.... Another broken promise from Barry? At least he seems to be a consistent liar, Equal opportunity and all.....:doh


j-mac
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What? Obama continuing warrantless wiretaps on people? No! I would never have imagined that Obama was just another politician lying and sleazing his way to the top. Never. Why he's hope and change. Hope that eventually we get change. Man...Bush III is really a disappointment in office.
 
aps said:
Sure, I may have been wrong. I don't have a problem with someone calling me on it. But to claim that I was flat out wrong is rather extreme.
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Well....you were...flat out wrong. Obama didn't change his mind at all. He supported these measures and the reason I will apologize for jumping on you so quick is that this issue really irks me. Obama voted for this during the primary, Hillary tried to make hay about it and was ignored.

And remember...the Left wanted Bush impeached for this. Now that their President is following the same exact policy.....we're deafened by the Left's silence. And when I saw you were attempting to give Obama cover by claiming he's possibly changed his mind as he had more info, that simply isn't even close to true.

He voted for this in July of 2008 when it was almost certain he would win the overall election for President. And his initial opposition to the bill wasn't about the wiretapping, it was the issue of access to company records...that he opposed then and is supporting NOW.

So...what changed his mind there? On the government's access to records? And...does this even slightly bother Obama supporters when the President is busy with so many fingers in the private sector's business?
 
Charles Martel said:
Well....you were...flat out wrong. Obama didn't change his mind at all. He supported these measures and the reason I will apologize for jumping on you so quick is that this issue really irks me. Obama voted for this during the primary, Hillary tried to make hay about it and was ignored.
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No worries. I understand the passion regarding this issue.

And remember...the Left wanted Bush impeached for this. Now that their President is following the same exact policy.....we're deafened by the Left's silence. And when I saw you were attempting to give Obama cover by claiming he's possibly changed his mind as he had more info, that simply isn't even close to true.

He voted for this in July of 2008 when it was almost certain he would win the overall election for President. And his initial opposition to the bill wasn't about the wiretapping, it was the issue of access to company records...that he opposed then and is supporting NOW.

So...what changed his mind there? On the government's access to records? And...does this even slightly bother Obama supporters when the President is busy with so many fingers in the private sector's business?
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Yes, it slightly bothers this Obama supporter. I'm just not as well versed as I would like to be to fully understand what happened and why it happened.
 
WillRockwell said:
Those inquiries have led to concerns in Congress about the agency’s ability to collect and read domestic e-mail messages of Americans on a widespread basis, officials said.
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From your link, Will......

Gee, I wonder why the "concerns in Congress" no longer apply? I mean, with a brand new Democratically dominated Congress why would they NOT put a stop to Obama following the exact sme policy Bush did?

Perhaps their opposition then was purely political? Go figure!
 
j-mac said:
Hmmmm.... Another broken promise from Barry? At least he seems to be a consistent liar, Equal opportunity and all.....:doh


j-mac
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Can you imagine the outrage that would be pouring forth from the major media and Libruls had this been the Bush Adminstration???

Irony and hypocrisy truly do define Democrat Librul politics. :cool:
 
Truth Detector said:
Can you imagine the outrage that would be pouring forth from the major media and Libruls had this been the Bush Adminstration???

Irony and hypocrisy truly do define Democrat Librul politics. :cool:
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What if McCain had won and did this? OMG!!!!
 
danarhea said:
When Bush was spying on Americans, I called for his impeachment. Now that it turns out that Obama is doing the same, I call for his impeachment. Spying on Americans is not something that America does. It is something that the old Soviet Union did. It is not a good thing to know that our last 2 presidents support Soviet policies, and taking actions that suppress freedom, rather than enhance it.

Obama should resign his presidency over this, and if the American people have any cahonas at all, they should unelect each and every Democrat and Republican that supported Bush in this, and who are supporting Obama now, either directly, or by their unamerican inaction.

This is disgusting. Citizens should not be afraid of their government. The government should be afraid of its citizens.
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:rofl Yeah Dana, let's impeach Obama for doing his job. It was stupid calling for Bush's impeachment just as it is now calling for Obama's.

You need to READ your Constitution and become INFORMED before you make such uninformed comments.

Last time I looked, you had to have impeachable evidence to IMPEACH a President. Of course, once again yours would be just because you say so. You were wrong on Bush, and you are wrong on Obama; but at least you are consistently wrong.

Carry on. :rofl
 
WillRockwell said:
It was proven that the NSA has gathered and stored every email written by every American. Is that spying?
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Only in the fantasy land that you apparently inhabit Will; but in the REAL world it doesn't exist and the desperate efforts of the lunatic left to assert it does suggests a profound irony that they are not whining about it when the Obama Administration does it.

So what say you? Will join Dana in his efforts to impeach Obama now?

:rofl
 
aps said:
Yes, it slightly bothers this Obama supporter. I'm just not as well versed as I would like to be to fully understand what happened and why it happened.
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You don't need to know that much though to realize one must exonerate Bush and even apologize to him for taking issue with his policy here to begin with. It obviously wasn't a passion coming from the American Left but rather a cheap and disgusting manner in which to attack the President.

I mean, Bush's numbers suffered because of this specific issue, the Left in Congress actually proceeded with impeachment proceedings, they continued to call the Patriot Act unconstitutional and an interference into basic American rights.

Now that Obama votes for it as early as July 2008, now that he extends the other Patriot Act policies.....is there even ONE Democrat calling for impeachment? Does this issue affect Obama's poll numbers or policy decisions.....even one iota?

How can this President continue the same exact policies after he chomped on about hope and change? Where is the American Left's outrage vanished to concerning this issue? Why isn't Obama accused of spying on Americans, why isn't Obama accused of illegal roving wiretaps, why aren't charges attempted against Obama when he accesses company records of private corporations?

Because...the Left's outrage and selective accusation machine was making all the hay to begin with. This isn't an issue that upsets Americans, if it was, they'd be upset now. They're not. It's just another case of selective outrage shown by traitorous Democrats in the middle of a war. Now that their circus clown is in...trust me...you'll hear no more from Congress about wiretapping nor the entire Patriot Act.
 
aps said:
I don't see this as a broken promise by Obama. At the time he made allegations, he was not privy to the intelligence that the then White House had. Now that he has a more complete picture as to what this lawsuit would divulge, he has changed his position. I don't have a problem with a changed position when the person is provided more detailed intelligence.
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That is the exact point; most of us KNEW he wasn't talking out of his ass. Read my signature (which dates back to 2008) if there is any doubt.

The point now is merely to point out the lies, hyperbole and demagoguery this President used against his opponents to get elected while being completely ignorant or not caring about the FACTS.

:2wave:
 
MrVicchio said:
The warrantless wiretap program gets hackles raised where hackles shouldn't. Too many people hear "Warrantless" and freak out. Like those morons that protest "Irradiated foods" as being dangerous. Nuclear Lunch: The Dangers and Unknowns of Food Irradiation / MICHAEL COLBY / Fatal Harvest: The Tragedy of Industrial Agriculture / Island Press Jul02

YES, if the program was unrestricted, with no oversight, and was being used improperly I'd have to agree it should be shut down. To call for Impeaching a President because he supports a program designed to allow the intel arms of the Government to listen into calls from Terrorist overseas to Americans or vice versa is just the far fringe of hyper-reactive paranoia.
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MrVicchio, don't you know the FACTS are not something those who prefer to demagogue their political opponents care about?

It is comforting that this Administration has seen the light of the foolish campaign rhetoric however and are fighting to do the RIGHT thing; so far.

:2wave:
 
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