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U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

katiegrrl0 said:
i made a post to a very specific response. if you would like to test your knowledge of WWII make a thread and i would be more than happy to debate you. until then ....
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i have a feeling you'll win that one. night.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
killing for nothing does not a patriot make. standing as a lone voice against the idiocy of government makes a patriot. i asked before i will ask again. would you have applauded the Nazi's if the soldiers had not fought? why would you applaud a US troop that blindly follows after foolish orders? makes no sense maybe you could explain the thought behind your dual thinking.
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Because if a soldier will follow orders that aren't perfect, in a perfect world, then I know that no matter what, I can count him to protect this country, to the death. I don't have much confidence in a soldier who picks and chooses what missions he is dedicated to. He might change his mind, when we need him the most. Soldiers have to be able to be counted on 100% of the time, not just when they feel like doing their job.
 
apdst said:
Because if a soldier will follow orders that aren't perfect, in a perfect world, then I know that no matter what, I can count him to protect this country, to the death. I don't have much confidence in a soldier who picks and chooses what missions he is dedicated to. He might change his mind, when we need him the most. Soldiers have to be able to be counted on 100% of the time, not just when they feel like doing their job.
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Exactly!

You can't depend on a floor when it has holes right through it.

In politics if one changes their mind about what they support frequently they're accused of flip-flopping.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I don't know, Iraq's impiralism into kuwait did threaten the entire region and our allies...
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Guess Kuwait shouldn't have been side drilling and stealing Iraq's oil. And guess we should of had competent ambassadors who would have told Saddam the US would look very negatively upon invasion and possible become involved and not that we wouldn't have an opinion. But que sera sera.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
not fake. blind patriotism is what makes no sense to me. it seems the military has this in abundance.
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It's not blind patriotism. It's a devotion, to the death, to his unit and his comrades. You'll never be able to understand, but when your life is on the line, the last thing you want is someone who might waffle at the last second.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
were the Nazi's right? who's judgment makes it wrong?

was the US right to attack a nation for the wrongs of some? who's judgment is it that all should pay for the acts of a few?

is this what would be called an eye for an eye?
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The Taliban was the gov't in 2001 and they were asked to give up Osama. They refused. We invaded.

You think that was wrong?
 
Ikari said:
Guess Kuwait shouldn't have been side drilling and stealing Iraq's oil. And guess we should of had competent ambassadors who would have told Saddam the US would look very negatively upon invasion and possible become involved and not that we wouldn't have an opinion. But que sera sera.
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So, when Mexican companies kick their drill pipe off a couple miles north of the Rio Grande, we should invade them? Rape, pillage and burn?
 
apdst said:
It's not blind patriotism. It's a devotion, to the death, to his unit and his comrades. You'll never be able to understand, but when your life is on the line, the last thing you want is someone who might waffle at the last second.
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Yep.
This is part of the reaon why women are not allowed in front-line combat units. Too many variables.
(Which I support - some things are just facts. You have to be able to depend on your troops)
 
Ikari said:
Guess Kuwait shouldn't have been side drilling and stealing Iraq's oil. And guess we should of had competent ambassadors who would have told Saddam the US would look very negatively upon invasion and possible become involved and not that we wouldn't have an opinion. But que sera sera.
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Or it just needed a bigger hammer in us as an allie. :lol:



but, no.


Stealing oil
In 1990 Iraq accused Kuwait of stealing Iraq's oil through slant drilling. Such claims are doubted to have been serious enough to justify war or the occupation of Kuwait, since the limits of directional drilling (at the time) made it unlikely that any such well could have been drilled much more than a mile from the surface location. Even doing so would have involved drilling sites close to the border and the use of sophisticated and easily identifiable equipment and personnel for extreme distances. The United Nations redrew the border after the 1991 Gulf war that liberated Kuwait from a seven-month Iraqi occupation under former leader Saddam Hussein. It placed 11 oil wells, some farms and an old naval base that used to be in Iraq on the Kuwaiti side.[2]


[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directional_drilling]Directional drilling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
apdst said:
So, when Mexican companies kick their drill pipe off a couple miles north of the Rio Grande, we should invade them? Rape, pillage and burn?
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It wasn't an excuse of invasion. It's highlighting that Iraq didn't just invade Kuwait for the fun of it. They had reasonable problem with Kuwait invading their sovereignty. They handled it poorly, partly because the US ambassador of the time told Saddam the US wouldn't have an opinion on Iraq invading Kuwait.
 
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Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Or it just needed a bigger hammer in us as an allie. :lol:
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One way or another, I think we need to be able to rationally and logically look at situations without trying to call up appeal to emotion. Especially as to how it relates to our military and the risk we expose our troops to. The military is willing to throw down significant sacrifice and I don't think we should take that for granted. I will call upon their sacrifice when the sovereignty of the United States is attacked. Other countries I say have to watch out for themselves. I mean, ok there's treaty and such and if all out war breaks out, maybe we can't sit on the sidelines. But in general, the course and government of a country is up to the people of that country to decide.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Oh, certainly you do - because, surely, if someone doesn't think the same way you do they're insane :roll: That's logical, oh sure.

Logical in the same way that everyone whines about what the police officers do until they find theirselves in a pickle and much in need of their protection.

Fortunately people like you are the minority, rightly so, becuase most balanced people understand that there's always a give and a take to every situation.
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there is never a good reason to invade a nation. sorry invasion is wrong. the US was not under threat from Afghanistan or Iraq. it was a gorop of people inside of a nation. why did Saudi Arabia that had most of the people on the planes for 9/11 avoided your swords? you want to explain that?
 
Aunt Spiker said:
So, naturally, you consider the soldiers to be at fault but you think that the leaders aren't in the wrong?

You're directing your distaste towards the wrong people - it's the leaders that bare the brunt and call the shots, they're the ones to be held accountable.
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the leaders are more wrong. if they didn't have over zealous forces to send it could not happen now could it?
 
Ikari said:
It wasn't an excuse of invasion. It's highlighting that Iraq didn't just invade Kuwait for the fun of it. They had reasonable problem with Kuwait invading their sovereignty. They handled it poorly, partly because the US ambassador of the time told Saddam the US wouldn't have an opinion on Iraq invading Kuwait.
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They had a purdy good time while they were in Kuwait, so it would be hard to believe they didn't do it for the fun of it.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
the leaders are more wrong. if they didn't have over zealous forces to send it could not happen now could it?
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And, if we didn't over zealous forces to fight the enemy when they land forces on Daytona Beach, our country will be conquered by a hostile power.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
there is never a good reason to invade a nation. sorry invasion is wrong. the US was not under threat from Afghanistan or Iraq. it was a gorop of people inside of a nation. why did Saudi Arabia that had most of the people on the planes for 9/11 avoided your swords? you want to explain that?
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I'm not standing up for their (the leader's, president, Congress, etc etc) actions and decisions - I find fault in a lot of them just as you. I feel they did do enough, didn't go deep enough.

What's easier to alter or control, the actions of millions or the actions of a few?
 
apdst said:
They had a purdy good time while they were in Kuwait, so it would be hard to believe they didn't do it for the fun of it.
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Any numbers on the civilian deaths caused by Iraq's scorched earth policy when they pulled out?.....:confused:
 
katiegrrl0 said:
there is never a good reason to invade a nation. sorry invasion is wrong. the US was not under threat from Afghanistan or Iraq. it was a gorop of people inside of a nation. why did Saudi Arabia that had most of the people on the planes for 9/11 avoided your swords? you want to explain that?
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Was al Qaeda based in Saudi Arabia, receiving funds and safe haven from Saudi Arabia?

Was the Taliban ruling Saudi Arabia, providing funds and safe haven to al Qaeda?

I have a scenario for you: 19 Americans go to Brazil, train for and plan a terrorist operation, with the santion of the Brazilian government, then attack London. Who should the British go after?
 
katiegrrl0 said:
there is never a good reason to invade a nation. sorry invasion is wrong. the US was not under threat from Afghanistan or Iraq. it was a gorop of people inside of a nation. why did Saudi Arabia that had most of the people on the planes for 9/11 avoided your swords? you want to explain that?
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Don't be fooled, Afghanistan was and remains a hotbed for anti-US planning and had we not invaded the chances are that we'd have been attacked again as we were on 9/11.

The Saudi government wasn't complicit in the attacks.

It pains me to be the first to bring this to your attention.
 
Coon County said:
Any numbers on the civilian deaths caused by Iraq's scorched earth policy when they pulled out?.....:confused:
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The Kuwaiti government claims that about 7,000 people were murdered and another 25,000 arrested and most of those tortured. There are around 600 Kuwaiti nationals who were taken back to Iraq and are still un-accounted for.
 
apdst said:
The Kuwaiti government claims that about 7,000 people were murdered and another 25,000 arrested and most of those tortured. There are around 600 Kuwaiti nationals who were taken back to Iraq and are still un-accounted for.
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Gee, I wonder what caused those soldiers not to disagree with command & save those poor people....:roll:
 
liblady said:
it doesn't matter what we think about those wars, those soldiers took an oath to fight those wars. yes, innocents died, and continue to die. but any anger you might have shouldn't be directed at them.

soldiers don't get to decide which orders they'll follow. as it should be.
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it just astounds me as to how Americans can judge harshly the actions of other military's for doing the same thing their military does does.

i.e.

Russia Georgia and invasion

The Nazi soldiers for following orders to do the heinous things they did.

Russia Afghanistan invasion

Iraq Kuwait and invasion.

you all call these actions wrong.

why is it right when your military does the same thing.

i.e

US Iraq an invasion
US Afghanistan an invasion

following orders to do these military actions.

maybe you people should use just a modicum of thought before you defend the awful things you support your military doing.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
The United States is the only country that has "patriotism" as a value or property of importance.

However - every country as an army.
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it s a poor value and you are wrong most nations are flag wavers as well.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I think she is naive and believes we all can just "choose peace" as if the other guy will as well. :shrug:
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have you ever thought that the other guy might if he believed that you would. your idea of peace is kill as many of the others as you can before they attack you. not a very good idea.
 
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