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U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

if they became a soldier first and then the order comes. what are they to do?

the real hero acts with personal integrity and says no i will not do this. the personal sell out blindly marches off to battle.
no, they're not selling out, they are carrying out the oath they took to defend our country. it's not up to them, nor can it ever be, to choose when they fight.

they don't march blindly. many don't agree with the wars they have to fight. but they do it because they are soldiers, and that's what soldiers are supposed to do. unfortunately, sometimes we don't see a war as just or necessary, but that has nothing to do with the men and women who are called to fight that war.

to believe otherwise is to demean their service. you and i have the freedom we do today because somebody died for it, without question. we have to remember that.
 
than they are bigger fools than i had thought. they may well have been blinded to truth by the flag waving in their eyes.



Remember in the other thread, where you were claiming something about mutual respect?


Perhaps you shouldn't call people like me who served, and those who are serving "fools" for your politics.


Unless of course, you want this conversation to head in that direction. I'm pretty good at mucking things up shorty. ;)
 
no, they're not selling out, they are carrying out the oath they took to defend our country. it's not up to them, nor can it ever be, to choose when they fight.

they don't march blindly. many don't agree with the wars they have to fight. but they do it because they are soldiers, and that's what soldiers are supposed to do. unfortunately, sometimes we don't see a war as just or necessary, but that has nothing to do with the men and women who are called to fight that war.

to believe otherwise is to demean their service. you and i have the freedom we do today because somebody died for it, without question. we have to remember that.





Hear! Hear!


Excellent post liblady. :thumbs:
 
I also believed in the mission, and had no problem executing my orders.

what does that make me?







hmm. I don't think so. :lol:

you did in fact stand up for yourself. the fact that you believed in the mission means to me that you didn't question deep enough. i saw no reason to punish a nation for the ills of a few. if you think wholesale consequences are a good thing i would question that.


yes had immigration not been cut off the Nazi's would not have the Glut of Jewish. WWII never needed to start though.
 
:ind:


i don't fly my flag often.
 
"Be the soldier whose strength is not to fight"

Why this? Why ask a soldier to abandom hope for success?
Why not demand that the leaders avoid stagnation and make decisions wisely instead of asking soldiers to bare the burden of reality? Why not demand that the people vote out those who chose to continue unworthy-war situations?

Why should the soldiers always be the ones to upheave and throw? Why not the constituents, why not the Congress, why not the Joint Chiefs of Staff?

Why not stage endless protests and demonstrations in support of the soldier's coming home?

Why ask a soldier to give up what they thought was the right thing, to put their future career and family on the line, just to appease you who chose not to fight at all but, instead, chose to sit at a computer to read and debate something that is often incomprehensible to understand unless you've lived through it in some way?

i question the sanity of a soldier who even followed the orders to go in the first place.
 
you did in fact stand up for yourself. the fact that you believed in the mission means to me that you didn't question deep enough. i saw no reason to punish a nation for the ills of a few. if you think wholesale consequences are a good thing i would question that.


yes had immigration not been cut off the Nazi's would not have the Glut of Jewish. WWII never needed to start though.





Didn't question enough?


Seriously, who the hell are you to make this judgment on me... :lol:


Fake pacifists irk me.... As a pacifist, I find your attitude most regrettable in this real world.
 
you did in fact stand up for yourself. the fact that you believed in the mission means to me that you didn't question deep enough. i saw no reason to punish a nation for the ills of a few. if you think wholesale consequences are a good thing i would question that.


yes had immigration not been cut off the Nazi's would not have the Glut of Jewish. WWII never needed to start though.

Yer killing me here....:doh
The last thing WW II was about was Jews...
FYI, the Russians lost 3x the number of holocaust victims....
I'll defer to the previous posters to correct you in the rest of your convoluted thinking....;)
Carry on!.....:)
 
no, they're not selling out, they are carrying out the oath they took to defend our country. it's not up to them, nor can it ever be, to choose when they fight.

they don't march blindly. many don't agree with the wars they have to fight. but they do it because they are soldiers, and that's what soldiers are supposed to do. unfortunately, sometimes we don't see a war as just or necessary, but that has nothing to do with the men and women who are called to fight that war.

to believe otherwise is to demean their service. you and i have the freedom we do today because somebody died for it, without question. we have to remember that.

this and iraq and the first gulf war and so many others have had zero to do with defending ones country. it has to do with following orders no matter what they are. had Adolf Eichmann not followed stupid orders how many less Jewish would have died. How many Afghan innocents and Iraqi innocents have died because these soldiers were not protecting their nation but following foolish orders.
 
this and iraq and the first gulf war and so many others have had zero to do with defending ones country. it has to do with following orders no matter what they are. had Adolf Eichmann not followed stupid orders how many less Jewish would have died. How many Afghan innocents and Iraqi innocents have died because these soldiers were not protecting their nation but following foolish orders.




I don't know, Iraq's impiralism into kuwait did threaten the entire region and our allies...
 
i question the sanity of a soldier who even followed the orders to go in the first place.

Oh, certainly you do - because, surely, if someone doesn't think the same way you do they're insane :roll: That's logical, oh sure.

Logical in the same way that everyone whines about what the police officers do until they find theirselves in a pickle and much in need of their protection.

Fortunately people like you are the minority, rightly so, becuase most balanced people understand that there's always a give and a take to every situation.
 
this and iraq and the first gulf war and so many others have had zero to do with defending ones country. it has to do with following orders no matter what they are. had Adolf Eichmann not followed stupid orders how many less Jewish would have died. How many Afghan innocents and Iraqi innocents have died because these soldiers were not protecting their nation but following foolish orders.


So, naturally, you consider the soldiers to be at fault but you think that the leaders aren't in the wrong?

You're directing your distaste towards the wrong people - it's the leaders that bare the brunt and call the shots, they're the ones to be held accountable.
 
Remember in the other thread, where you were claiming something about mutual respect?


Perhaps you shouldn't call people like me who served, and those who are serving "fools" for your politics.


Unless of course, you want this conversation to head in that direction. I'm pretty good at mucking things up shorty. ;)

i do respect your beliefs. i think the act was foolish. i think that any time any person signs up for the military the make the statement that battle and war will continue. it is what they think is patriotic. i question the nature of patriotism. if it comes to killing over a policy that is not patriotism it is foolish.

it is hard to separate the act of what one does for what he believes. if you believe that the battle was right your are entitled to that. i respect that. the fact that i think the entire mission was foolish is not reflective on that particular soldier.
 
this and iraq and the first gulf war and so many others have had zero to do with defending ones country. it has to do with following orders no matter what they are. had Adolf Eichmann not followed stupid orders how many less Jewish would have died. How many Afghan innocents and Iraqi innocents have died because these soldiers were not protecting their nation but following foolish orders.
it doesn't matter what we think about those wars, those soldiers took an oath to fight those wars. yes, innocents died, and continue to die. but any anger you might have shouldn't be directed at them.

soldiers don't get to decide which orders they'll follow. as it should be.
 
i do respect your beliefs. i think the act was foolish. i think that any time any person signs up for the military the make the statement that battle and war will continue. it is what they think is patriotic. i question the nature of patriotism. if it comes to killing over a policy that is not patriotism it is foolish.

it is hard to separate the act of what one does for what he believes. if you believe that the battle was right your are entitled to that. i respect that. the fact that i think the entire mission was foolish is not reflective on that particular soldier.

The United States is the only country that has "patriotism" as a value or property of importance.

However - every country as an army.
 
it doesn't matter what we think about those wars, those soldiers took an oath to fight those wars. yes, innocents died, and continue to die. but any anger you might have shouldn't be directed at them.

soldiers don't get to decide which orders they'll follow. as it should be.




I think she is naive and believes we all can just "choose peace" as if the other guy will as well. :shrug:
 
So, naturally, you consider the soldiers to be at fault but you think that the leaders aren't in the wrong?

You're directing your distaste towards the wrong people - it's the leaders that bare the brunt and call the shots, they're the ones to be held accountable.
the leaders don't bear the brunt, the soldiers do.
 
Yer killing me here....:doh
The last thing WW II was about was Jews...
FYI, the Russians lost 3x the number of holocaust victims....
I'll defer to the previous posters to correct you in the rest of your convoluted thinking....;)
Carry on!.....:)

i made a post to a very specific response. if you would like to test your knowledge of WWII make a thread and i would be more than happy to debate you. until then ....
 
Didn't question enough?


Seriously, who the hell are you to make this judgment on me... :lol:


Fake pacifists irk me.... As a pacifist, I find your attitude most regrettable in this real world.

not fake. blind patriotism is what makes no sense to me. it seems the military has this in abundance.
 
I don't know, Iraq's impiralism into kuwait did threaten the entire region and our allies...

were you threatened by Iraq when your military invaded that sovereign nation.

YOU INVADED IRAQ not under threat of attack. is that an order a person of integrity would have followed???????
 
not fake. blind patriotism is what makes no sense to me. it seems the military has this in abundance.




You are indeed, and I am not trying to be insulting, a fake pacifist. You lack a cohesive reality to practice your pacifism...

Pacifism from a position of weakness is nothing....


I am out but I leave you with a quote demonstrating what actual pacifism is.





“ A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence. He chooses peace. He must be able to make a choice. He must have the genuine ability to destroy his enemy and then choose not to. I have heard this excuse made. “I choose to be a pacifist before learning techniques so I do not need to learn the power of destruction.” This shows no comprehension of the mind of the true warrior. This is just a rationalization to cover the fear of injury or hard training. The true warrior who chooses to be a pacifist is willing to stand and die for his principles. People claiming to be pacifists who rationalize to avoid hard training or injury will flee instead of standing and dying for principle. They are just cowards. Only a warrior who has tempered his spirit in conflict and who has confronted himself and his greatest fears can in my opinion make the choice to be a true pacifist.” -takamura




Simply stating "just don't fight only "fools" do it", is cowardice, not pacifism
 
the leaders don't bear the brunt, the soldiers do.

That's the family, relationship, psychological and physical burden.

I was refering to the burden of "blame" and "responsibility" that people asign during and after conflicts.

Individuals, sadly, are reduced to numbers on paper of "casualities" and statistics - in the history books everyone will know "Bush" they will know "Obama" and they will know "Clinton" in regard to this Middle East situation.
The only time a soldier will go down in history is for descention and acts of valor.
 
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were you threatened by Iraq when your military invaded that sovereign nation.

YOU INVADED IRAQ not under threat of attack. is that an order a person of integrity would have followed???????




When I was there? I pushed the iraqi army and republican guard out of Kuwait. I'm cool with my actions. :shrug:
 
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