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Cheney: Stop ‘dithering’ on Afghanistan troops

goldendog said:
Hell yes Cheney is wrong..as he has been many times before.
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So you DO believe that:

-Signals of indecision out of Washington do NOT hurt our allies and do NOT embolden our adversaries

-The White House does NOT need to stop dithering while America's armed forces are in danger

-It is NOT time for President Obama to do what it takes to win a war he has repeatedly and rightly called a war of necessity.

:shock:
 
reefedjib said:
For three years, we had the wrong strategy in Iraq. Events deteriorated. The strategy was, train the Iraqis and turn over control as fast as possible. As the Army failed in the face of sectarian insurgents and large portions of the population were chased out of the country, we finally got some reality back in Washington and Bush listened, bless him. Keane and Petraeus educated important people about counterinsurgency. Bush changed the strategy to secure the population.

Strategy is very important - nay critical to winning.
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& every general I've heard admits that Afghanistan cannot be won by military force alone. We'd need to build infrastructure...provide local security for the people...etc.....& We can't afford it anymore......It's not our problem!

Declare victory & get the hell out!
 
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Goobieman said:
So you DO believe that:

-Signals of indecision out of Washington do NOT hurt our allies and do NOT embolden our adversaries

-The White House does NOT need to stop dithering while America's armed forces are in danger

-It is NOT time for President Obama to do what it takes to win a war he has repeatedly and rightly called a war of necessity.

:shock:
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Cheney used the term "dithering" to describe our goverment actions compared to his own. Yes I do think he is a freaking inept monster and is yet again out of line for doing so.
 
goldendog said:
Cheney used the term "dithering" to describe our goverment actions compared to his own. Yes I do think he is a freaking inept monster and is yet again out of line for doing so.
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None of this changes the fact that you ALSO believe that:

-Signals of indecision out of Washington do NOT hurt our allies and do NOT embolden our adversaries
-The White House does NOT need to stop dithering while America's armed forces are in danger
-It is NOT time for President Obama to do what it takes to win a war he has repeatedly and rightly called a war of necessity.
 
Devil505 said:
Depends on you definition of "Win"

If getting us war weary with dead GI's returning in body bags ...with no end in site is their goal...I'd say they are winning right now.
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It only works if defeatests such as yourself buy into it.
 
Devil505 said:
& every general I've heard admits that Afghanistan cannot be won by military force alone. We'd need to build infrastructure...provide local security for the people...etc.....& We can't afford it anymore......It's not our problem!

Declare victory & get the hell out!
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Although I agree that we need to get out, it is for an entirely different reason. My issue is that we cannot stop the Taliban unless we can shutdown their sactuaries in Pakistan. So far, we cannot. As a result, there is very little split in the Pashtun population, part for the government of Afghanistan. As a result of that, there is very little HUMINT that we can gather from the local population.
 
Goobieman said:
None of this changes the fact that you ALSO believe that:

-Signals of indecision out of Washington do NOT hurt our allies and do NOT embolden our adversaries
-The White House does NOT need to stop dithering while America's armed forces are in danger
-It is NOT time for President Obama to do what it takes to win a war he has repeatedly and rightly called a war of necessity.
Click to expand...

If you people including Cheney wish to bash the troops over and over again by describing the Presidents current deliberations reguarding just what the FUTURE path in Afganistan will look like then who am I to stop you.

To make these claims while troops are on the line is inexcusable.
To sit there and ignore that Afghanistan's present day situations is NOT linked to indecision of the past administation is also inexcusable.

Especially coming from a lying creep like Dick Cheney.
 
reefedjib said:
For three years, we had the wrong strategy in Iraq. Events deteriorated. The strategy was, train the Iraqis and turn over control as fast as possible. As the Iraqi Army failed in the face of sectarian insurgents and large portions of the population were chased out of the country, we finally got some reality back in Washington and Bush listened, bless him. Keane and Petraeus educated important people about counterinsurgency. Bush changed the strategy to secure the population.

Strategy is very important - nay critical to winning.
Click to expand...

Of course strategy is important, critical even, I never said otherwise. My point is, developing a strategy isn't as complicated as some folks would make it out to be.
 
Devil505 said:
You spelled it wrong .....realist is spelled REALIST. :lol:
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It's only real if defeatests such as yourself make it real. It's people like you that the enemy is hoping to effect, more than our soldiers. You're the best propaganda tool the enemy could ever hope for.
 
apdst said:
It only works if defeatests such as yourself buy into it.
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That much is true. Almost happened in Iraq. Would have if the current President and Congressional leadership had their druthers.
 
apdst said:
Of course strategy is important, critical even, I never said otherwise. My point is, developing a strategy isn't as complicated as some folks would make it out to be.
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Many things are complicated.....This problem is very complicated to all who really understand it.
 
Devil505 said:
Many things are complicated.....This problem is very complicated to all who really understand it.
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It's complicated by people like you who only wish to cut-n-run.
 
Harshaw said:
That much is true. Almost happened in Iraq. Would have if the current President and Congressional leadership had their druthers.
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You mean those people that declared that not only could the war in Iraq not be won, but that it was, indeed, already lost?
 
apdst said:
Of course strategy is important, critical even, I never said otherwise. My point is, developing a strategy isn't as complicated as some folks would make it out to be.
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I think the biggest hurdle to adopting a counterinsurgency strategy were the Generals in charge at the Pentagon and Casey and whoever it was at CENTCOM at the time. Keane had to do an end-run through a war game sponsored by "The Weekly Standard" was it? I don't rememember the publication that threw the war game.

Anyway, those Generals were stuck in a "war is won in the first half" mentality and they were advising Bush. They wanted out of a nation building exercise. Of course, the real game in a regime change situation is "played in the second half".

I am extremely concerned over reports that Petraeus' opinion is not being sought after by Obama.
 
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Goobieman said:
You mean those people that declared that not only could the war in Iraq not be won, but that it was, indeed, already lost?
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That certainly rings a bell, yes.
 
reefedjib said:
I am extremely concerned over reports that Petraeus' opinion is not being sought after by Obama.
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Which goes to show that PBO is a yahoo and will cause our troops to face defeat in Afghanistan.
 
Goobieman said:
1.44 KIA/day, over 6-1/2 years of conflict.
Sure sign of a crushing defeat.
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Yes that is a message that the Right and Dick Cheney clearly wants to send our troops on the ground in Afghanistan. They want to make their efforts sound worthless and they are being dithered on by the president.

Way to bash the troops righties.
 
goldendog said:
To make these claims while troops are on the line is inexcusable.
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No...
What's inexcuseable is the partisan bigotry necessary to beleve that:

-Signals of indecision out of Washington do NOT hurt our allies and do NOT embolden our adversaries
-The White House does NOT need to stop dithering while America's armed forces are in danger
-It is NOT time for President Obama to do what it takes to win a war he has repeatedly and rightly called a war of necessity.
 
goldendog said:
Yes that is a message that the Right and Dick Cheney clearly wants to send our troops on the ground in Afghanistan. They want to make their efforts sound worthless and they are being dithered on by the president.

Way to bash the troops righties.
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After what we've heard from the Libbos since '02, you can shut that **** up, right fast. Not since Vietnam has the American Left acted so disgracefully towards our military with lies, false accusations of murder and rape, etc. It's no wonder that some Leftists are ashamed to admit they are Liberals.
 
goldendog said:
If you people including Cheney wish to bash the troops over and over again by describing the Presidents current deliberations reguarding just what the FUTURE path in Afganistan will look like then who am I to stop you.

To make these claims while troops are on the line is inexcusable.
To sit there and ignore that Afghanistan's present day situations is NOT linked to indecision of the past administation is also inexcusable.

Especially coming from a lying creep like Dick Cheney.
Click to expand...

Only the most rabid of hyper partisans would try and connect Cheney's comments on Obama's inaction as some kind of "troop bashing."
 
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