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Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

reefedjib said:
Well, once again the integration of black and white soldiers resulted in murder, often of the black soldier. Still the Army got through it and now we are truly integrated and have been for decades.
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Yeah, but we're not talking about race, we're talking about sexual orientation and black males are the most homophobic mother ****ers I know.
 
apdst said:
No matter how many soldiers die because of it? Sorry, but I don't agree that it's worth it.
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The problem herein is your assumption that soldiers will die as a result of this, which the data does not support. Other countries have had success with allowing gays in the military, gays serve in our military today. How many extra deaths are a result of either of those facts.
 
apdst said:
Not exactly, but if a straight soldier goes around telling female soldiers that he's straight, not only can he be charged with violating DADT, but he can be charged with sexual harrassment, which could lead to a charge of conduct unbecoming, which would result in being dishonorably discharged. Failure to adjust to military life, what-have-you.
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saying you are strait or gay is not sexual harassment.
 
reefedjib said:
What!? Surely it takes more than that?
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Unfortunately, it doesn't. The interpretation is the only thing that matters. In the military there is a charge called, "intent to rape". That doesn't exist in the civilian world. An intent to rape charge can be brought, even without physical contact. And, it applies to off duty/off post personel as it does to personel on duty and on post.
 
apdst said:
Not exactly, but if a straight soldier goes around telling female soldiers that he's straight, not only can he be charged with violating DADT, but he can be charged with sexual harrassment, which could lead to a charge of conduct unbecoming, which would result in being dishonorably discharged. Failure to adjust to military life, what-have-you.
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And if even once a soldier is found out to be gay they can be discharge that is not the same for straight soldiers
 
Redress said:
saying you are strait or gay is not sexual harassment.
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It could be interpreted that way and if so, there will be charges brought.

I had to roast a soldier because he told a female officer that her uniform was looking good and winked at her. It's rediculous what can constitute sexual harrassment in the service.

You're thinking like a civilian. We're talking about the military.
 
apdst said:
Unfortunately, it doesn't. The interpretation is the only thing that matters. In the military there is a charge called, "intent to rape". That doesn't exist in the civilian world. An intent to rape charge can be brought, even without physical contact. And, it applies to off duty/off post personel as it does to personel on duty and on post.
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That's crazy, but I understand. The mere accusation of intent is enough. They should change that.
 
winston53660 said:
And if even once a soldier is found out to be gay they can be discharge that is not the same for straight soldiers
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Great, now that gay soldier can be discharged for conduct unbecoming, rather than for his/her sexual orientation. There, everybody is equal. Happy?
 
apdst said:
Yeah, but we're not talking about race, we're talking about sexual orientation and black males are the most homophobic mother ****ers I know.
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:rofl That's for damn sure! I wonder if that is because there are so many gay black men!
 
apdst said:
It could be interpreted that way and if so, there will be charges brought.

I had to roast a soldier because he told a female officer that her uniform was looking good and winked at her. It's rediculous what can constitute sexual harrassment in the service.

You're thinking like a civilian. We're talking about the military.
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That is a different situation than simply saying you are strait or gay. Saying "I am strait" is not harassment(depending on the situation a bit, you could do it in a harassing way as part of an unwelcome advance).
 
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reefedjib said:
That's crazy, but I understand. The mere accusation of intent is enough. They should change that.
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I've always disagree with the Army's sexual harrassment policies, but the military is under alot of pressure from the government, more pressure than any other government agency and certainly more presure than civilian jobs. It's nuts. That's why I've always been a proponent of all female/male units. If males and females didn't serve together, then alot of that BS would go away and we could get down to soldier'n. That's what they're there for, to soldier, not worry about looking at a female the wrong way and getting smacked with some crazy sexual harrassment charge.
 
apdst said:
Great, now that gay soldier can be discharged for conduct unbecoming, rather than for his/her sexual orientation. There, everybody is equal. Happy?
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I have no problem with that as long as simply being gay is not reason for discharge.
Any more than being straight is.
 
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Redress said:
That is a different situation than simply saying you are strait or gay. Saying "I am strait" is not harassment(depending on the situation a bit, you sould do it in a harassing way as part of an unwelcome advance).
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It depends on who you say it to and how that person interprets the comment. It has nothing to do with how you say it.
 
winston53660 said:
I have no problem with that as long as simply being gay is reason for discharge.
Any more than being straight is.
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Yeah, now they can get hit with SH just like everybody else.
 
apdst said:
It depends on who you say it to and how that person interprets the comment. It has nothing to do with how you say it.
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Actually it does. You walk into a crowded barracks common room and shout out "I am strait", no one is going to successfully charge you with anything. Walk up to a member of the opposite sex and "I am strait" as a come on, if the other person finds that unwelcome, you could potentially be charged, though it is unlikely that the charge would stick. At worse, you would probably get 60/60 and a reduction in paygrade. Now just walk into a barracks common room and shout out "I am gay" and you are possible getting an OTH RE4.
 
Redress said:
Actually it does. You walk into a crowded barracks common room and shout out "I am strait", no one is going to successfully charge you with anything. Walk up to a member of the opposite sex and "I am strait" as a come on, if the other person finds that unwelcome, you could potentially be charged, though it is unlikely that the charge would stick. At worse, you would probably get 60/60 and a reduction in paygrade. Now just walk into a barracks common room and shout out "I am gay" and you are possible getting an OTH RE4.
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Accept, that if there's a female in the day room and she's suddenly offended, or believes that that comment was directed at her for some twisted reason, she can bust your ass with a sexual harrassment charge. And you know what? At that point, you're purdy much in deep ****, because your commander is going to take her side, everytime.

In a sexual harrassment case, the accused soldiers is screwed, period. Out of the 15 odd cases I dealt with, I never saw anyone beat the charge. There were three, or four that were the most utter, complete and total bull**** and the accused soldier still didn't beat the charge.

I saw a soldier get discharged, because he was pissing in the woods, there was a unit about a 1,000 yards away and a female soldier, who was outside her company area without authorization saw him shaking he piss off his ****. She claimed he was shaking his dick at her. Guess who they believed.
 
apdst said:
Sexual harrassment.
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Thanxs, I do think people take it to far and need to get a sense of reality male, female, gay, straight. IMHO from what I have read here it is one of the most abused charges around in the military.
 
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winston53660 said:
Thanxs, I do think people take it to far and need to get a sense of reality male, female, gay, straight. IMHO from what I have read here it is one of the most abused charges around in the military.
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IMO, it's the most abused charge in the military. I was in the infantry, so I never had to deal with female soldiers...thank God!...but I've heard some stories from NCOs that did have to deal with females and I don't see how they did it. I would lost my patience with all that BS and went to the stockade for kicking the crap out of someone.

The fact that sexual harrassment is so abused, is the reason that I believe that when gays are allowed to serve openly, the sexual harrassment rate is going to skyrocket.
 
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apdst said:
It could be interpreted that way and if so, there will be charges brought.

I had to roast a soldier because he told a female officer that her uniform was looking good and winked at her. It's rediculous what can constitute sexual harrassment in the service.

You're thinking like a civilian. We're talking about the military.
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Just out of curiosity, how exactly could being open about your sexual orientation be interpreted as sexual harassment?
 
Dr_Patrick said:
Just out of curiosity, how exactly could being open about your sexual orientation be interpreted as sexual harassment?
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It could interpreted as a sexual advance.
 
This might be Obama's lone accomplishment while in office.

That, and winning the Nobel Peace Prize and the Heisman Trophy.
 
apdst said:
That's like saying that all a male soldier wants to do in a female shower, is take a shower. But, that just ain't the way it works.
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Yes I can see were the fear would arise that one's penis might be involutarily thrust into a fellow soldiers ass.
 
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