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Obama reaffirms will end "Don't ask Don't tell"

apdst said:
soldiers refuse to share billets with other soldiers of the same sex, then they have that right.
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I never knew soldiers had the right to choose their roommates.
 
kansaswhig said:
There's a lot straight soldiers that are dorks :mrgreen:
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Don't I know!...:rofl



Agreed, but combat is what counts.
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It all goes hand in hand. Problems that start in garrison can blow up in the field. You know that.


Still, females cause me more problems in garrison than gays would, I think. I still believe that many gay soldiers would not "come out" even if DADT went away.
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I had a gay soldier that got his ass kicked for making advances in the shower. We had to billet him at battalion, because the entire company refused to take showers as long as he was in the unit...and that was their right to protest.
 
apdst said:
If they stare, then it will be considered sexual harrassment. That's what.
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That's ridiculus. That's not sexual harrassment, that's staring at a little nudity. When I was in service, in the late 80's, we had one guy with a HUGE penis. Everyone stared at it, poor guy. We nicknamed him "the Trout". We never considered that sexual harrassment; perhaps it was.
 
apdst said:
Of course they do. You can't force a female soldier to share billets with a male soldier.
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So when did it become the right of soldiers to choose their roommates?
 
disneydude said:
Obama reaffirms will end 'don't ask, don't tell' - Yahoo! News

President Barack Obama pledged to end the ban on homosexuals serving openly in the military in a speech Saturday, but acknowledged to a cheering crowd that the policy changes he promised on the campaign trail are not coming as quickly as they expected.


DADT was a horrible policy from the start. Clinton should have ended the ban on gays in the military rather than agreeing to this compromise.
Thank You President Obama for standing on your principles.

DADT rewarded lying and deceit and punished honesty. It doesn't take much of a brain to understand that there is obviously something wrong with that.
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I'll believe it when I see it.
 
apdst said:
I had a gay soldier that got his ass kicked for making advances in the shower. We had to billet him at battalion, because the entire company refused to take showers as long as he was in the unit...and that was their right to protest.
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They need to grow up. Command should have made them shower with him and kicked their asses for kicking his ass. Culture shock.


Same story with women in garrison or combat. Set the culture.
 
reefedjib said:
That's ridiculus. That's not sexual harrassment, that's staring at a little nudity. When I was in service, in the late 80's, we had one guy with a HUGE penis. Everyone stared at it, poor guy. We nicknamed him "the Trout". We never considered that sexual harrassment; perhaps it was.
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LOL...in the military, that is sexual harrassment.
 
reefedjib said:
They need to grow up. Command should have made them shower with him and kicked their asses for kicking his ass. Culture shock.
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Well, we're talking about the wonderful world of Don't ask don't tell. They couldn't ask him if he was gay and he didn't have to tell them that he was, so there was no way that he, or them, could have been given seperate shower facilities. And, the soldier that kicked his ass was convicted of assault and spent some time in the stockade. It was a big ole mess.
 
winston53660 said:
So when did it become the right of soldiers to choose their roommates?
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not a right...but pretty common. although, someone has to bunk with the smelly guy...
 
apdst said:
Well, we're talking about the wonderful world of Don't ask don't tell. They couldn't ask him if he was gay and he didn't have to tell them that he was, so there was no way that he, or them, could have been given seperate shower facilities. And, the soldier that kicked his ass was convicted of assault and spent some time in the stockade. It was a big ole mess.
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But I am saying there should be no separate shower facilities. They need to get over it.

And it is the NCO's job to set the culture.
 
reefedjib said:
But I am saying there should be no separate shower facilities. They need to get over it.

And it is the NCO's job to set the culture.
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And, I'm saying that if a soldier files a grievance and refuses to shower with another soldier, then you're going to find a great big can of worms to deal with. Bottom line is, if straight soldiers refuse to share billets with gay soldiers, or gay soldiers refuse to share billets with straight soldiers, that's their right and the military is going to be forced to accomadate them.
 
OT - how to configure and use DP

This is off-topic, but could you all explain how I can best use DP? I am brand new to the forum.

1) I keep getting emails for all replies. Should I turn them off? How?

2) How to best check for new posts across all threads?

thanks!
 
I'm sure that there are thousands of closeted gung ho trogladites who can't even hold a gun without thinking about a penis..that's were the true problem lies. They are a danger only to themselves. The people that are honest about their sexuality are a danger to nobody.
 
goldendog said:
I'm sure that there are thousands of closeted gung ho trogladites who can't even hold a gun without thinking about a penis..that's were the true problem lies. They are a danger only to themselves. The people that are honest about their sexuality are a danger to nobody.
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Hmm. I think there are more honorable ways to have this discussion than dissing some troops you disagree with. :shrug:
 
apdst said:
And, I'm saying that if a soldier files a grievance and refuses to shower with another soldier, then you're going to find a great big can of worms to deal with. Bottom line is, if straight soldiers refuse to share billets with gay soldiers, or gay soldiers refuse to share billets with straight soldiers, that's their right and the military is going to be forced to accomadate them.
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Wow. And I believe you said this is due to the DADT policy, is that right? I served before that time. Why couldn't you take that right away - you have to billet and shower with whomever the unit tells you to?
 
goldendog said:
I'm sure that there are thousands of closeted gung ho trogladites who can't even hold a gun without thinking about a penis..that's were the true problem lies. They are a danger only to themselves. The people that are honest about their sexuality are a danger to nobody.
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Oh, so there's something wrong with all those straight soldiers out there? Is that it? Nevermind all the great service they've given us over the past 234 years.
 
reefedjib said:
Wow. And I believe you said this is due to the DADT policy, is that right?
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No, it's not because of DADT. I believe that if gays want to serve in the military, then DADT is the best policy we can come up with.

I served before that time. Why couldn't you take that right away - you have to billet and shower with whomever the unit tells you to?
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So, a female can be ordered to share a shower/billets with a male soldier? I think we both know that that won't happen.
 
RAND | Monograph/Reports | Sexual Orientation and U.S. Military Personnel Policy: Options and Assessment

This is the mpost detailed and up to date study on the issue of gays and the military, done by Rand Corp at the request of the Pentagon. Full report is available in 3 PDF's at the linked page.

Several observations emerged from these visits. In countries that allow homosexuals to serve, the number of openly homosexual service members is small and is believed to represent a minority of homosexuals actually serving. Open homosexuals were appropriately circumspect in military situations: They did not call attention to themselves in ways that could make their service less pleasant or impede their careers. When problems were reported, they were usually resolved satisfactorily on a case-by-case basis. None of these countries reported any impairment in military performance resulting from the presence of homosexuals.
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In other words, queens and dykes are not going to run rampant in the military, and full integration is possible without affecting military performance.

The RAND study suggests that although the presence of a known homosexual may affect social cohesion, it is unlikely to undermine task cohesion, provided that the individual demonstrates competence and a commitment to the unit's mission. Therefore, researchers conclude that the presence of known homosexuals on the force is not likely to undermine military performance.
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In other words, there could be some minor growing pains when this happens, but on a small scale that can be handled easily at the command level(in fact, command taking a firm hand should result in raised morale).

The report is long, and goes from looking at whether it would work, to how it would need be implemented.
 
apdst said:
So, a female can be ordered to share a shower/billets with a male soldier? I think we both know that that won't happen.
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NEWSFLASH: gay men are not women.
 
apdst said:
I served before that time. Why couldn't you take that right away - you have to billet and shower with whomever the unit tells you to?
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So, a female can be ordered to share a shower/billets with a male soldier? I think we both know that that won't happen.
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Well, in the near term, I was just thinking about gays in the military. My suggestion to extend this to co-ed situations was half-humorous, half-serious, but most certainly at some point in the distant future. I would be happy to see women serve in combat units first, with separate shower facilities.

The US has a very strange obsession with the naked body, regardless of your sexual preference. Probably rooted in our puritanical orgins. It is equated with sex instead of just being a naked body. In Germany, where I was stationed, I used to ride my bike out to the local quarry. There was a beach and water you could swim in. Germans used to go frequently and when Germans go to the beach they strip down naked. Beautiful women were a bonus, to be sure, but you got old folks and fat folks and young kids and everything - buck naked. After the initial shock, being an American and unused to such a display, it wore off and it just started seeming to be natural. Sure, I still looked at the beautiful women, as did practically every man there, but it stopped being a stare as that's rude.

This aversion to nudity can be overcome in the military. That's what leadership is all about.
 
apdst said:
And, I'm saying that if a soldier files a grievance and refuses to shower with another soldier, then you're going to find a great big can of worms to deal with. Bottom line is, if straight soldiers refuse to share billets with gay soldiers, or gay soldiers refuse to share billets with straight soldiers, that's their right and the military is going to be forced to accomadate them.
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Why would that be their right? Are they generally allowed now to refuse to bunk near someone they don't like?
 
kansaswhig said:
not a right...but pretty common. although, someone has to bunk with the smelly guy...
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But somehow the guy who stinks like onion pitts and sweaty, unwiped ass is preferable to a gay man or a >gasp< woman. :rolleyes:
 
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