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DHS Napolitano orders Sheriff Arpaio to stop looking for illegal aliens

That would be unconstitutional. Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz established that sobriety checkpoints do violate the 4th, but allowed them, claiming that public safety from DUI prevention was more important. With no public safety at stake, stopping cars and checking ID without cause would not be legal.

I don't know. It appears that NYPD and other big city police have been stopping people on the street, sidewalks, etc. and asking for ID, searching their bags, and even patting them down.

They are getting away with it somehow.

NEW YORK (AP) - A teenager trying to get into his apartment after school is confronted by police. A man leaving his workplace chooses a different route back home to avoid officers who roam a particular street.

These and hundreds of thousands of other Americans in big cities have been stopped on the street by police using a law-enforcement practice called stop-and-frisk that alarms civil libertarians but is credited by authorities with helping reduce crime.

Police in major U.S. cities stop and question more than a million people each year - a sharply higher number than just a few years ago. Most are black and Hispanic men. Many are frisked, and nearly all are innocent of any crime, according to figures gathered by The Associated Press.
My Way News - Police stop more than 1 million people on street
 
I don't know. It appears that NYPD and other big city police have been stopping people on the street, sidewalks, etc. and asking for ID, searching their bags, and even patting them down.

They are getting away with it somehow.

The article states the officers are claiming "reasonable suspicion" in making the stops (although I would disagree). A sobriety checkpoint doesn't even have reasonable suspicion argument, as it stops everyone regardless of behavior.
 
Setting up laws that let you target anyone broadens the victims of those who seek police power and plan on abusing it covertly. Human nature triumphs. Some percent will abuse it no matter what obstacles you put up. And that is why dragnets should only be done to catch a mass murderer and random pat downs should be illegal. To catch someone who seeks authority to abuse it is like winning the lottery if they are careful enough. Good luck.
 
I don't carry anything to prove my citizenship. But I do carry the documents to legally drive in this country. If I were to go through a DUI type checkpoint, (we have them regularly around here) and could not produce those documents, then I could, upon request, provide a valid birth certificate, passport, etc.

My point was that if you are caught for some other infraction, like driving without license and insurance, then it gives the LEO opening to also check immigration status.

What exactly is a DUI type checkpoint? Do you have roadblocks where officers stop every car and simply ask for license and registration without cause?
 
What exactly is a DUI type checkpoint? Do you have roadblocks where officers stop every car and simply ask for license and registration without cause?

The ones I have seen they make every car slowly roll passed them and they peer into the car. They have 1 lane that is open but you aren't allowed to go through it. They leave it open due to legalities but then chase you down if you go through it. (Or at least the ones i used to see in my old town). If you look suspicious. (Or get a racist cop and look the opposite of what they like) You get stopped and harassed.
 
The ones I have seen they make every car slowly roll passed them and they peer into the car. They have 1 lane that is open but you aren't allowed to go through it. They leave it open due to legalities but then chase you down if you go through it. (Or at least the ones i used to see in my old town). If you look suspicious. (Or get a racist cop and look the opposite of what they like) You get stopped and harassed.

That's how it works here in AZ.
 
SO if I understand the HMS directive:

If an officer observes a tail-light broken and subsequently pulls a vehicle over; then notices a Latino in the drivers seat he must relieve the driver of any responsibility to the law.. BECAUSE he's Latino.. I think I'm getting it now... uh ...uh ...NEVER MIND......I'm wrong... I STILL don't get it!

OK, ok, NOW I got it! They should never racially profile UNLESS it is to ignore a federal law perpetrated by a minority... that's IT!!.. I understand COMPLETELY!!

Silly progressives! Always tryin' to trick me out of my Constitution! :2wave:
 
The DHS can't it's a clear violation of the 10th Adm. someone really needs to explain the US Constitution to these folks.

How so?

Immigration is under federal law, correct?
 
How so?

Immigration is under federal law, correct?

Yup, and State law is under the State... Tell me, is there any Federal law against illegally entering this country?
 
SO if I understand the HMS directive:

If an officer observes a tail-light broken and subsequently pulls a vehicle over; then notices a Latino in the drivers seat he must relieve the driver of any responsibility to the law.. BECAUSE he's Latino.. I think I'm getting it now... uh ...uh ...NEVER MIND......I'm wrong... I STILL don't get it!

OK, ok, NOW I got it! They should never racially profile UNLESS it is to ignore a federal law perpetrated by a minority... that's IT!!.. I understand COMPLETELY!!

Silly progressives! Always tryin' to trick me out of my Constitution! :2wave:

Uh..

I'm brown (hispanic), and I get picked on in these "Immigration checkpoints" which are much like DUI checkpoints... except they're not stopping everyone... they're stopping those that are brown.

I very much like my fourth amendment rights... probably just as much as you love your second amendment rights... and much like the liberals like their 1st amendment rights.

This is the depth of the conversation we're having here... He is racially profiling and subsequently violating the rights of a lot of Americans who look Hispanic.

Doesn't surprise me you're republitard.
 
What exactly is a DUI type checkpoint? Do you have roadblocks where officers stop every car and simply ask for license and registration without cause?

That's it in one.

"An additional source of guidelines can be found in an earlier decision by the California Supreme Court (Ingersoll v. Palmer (43 Cal.3d 1321 (1987)) wherein the Court set forth what it felt to be necessary standards in planning and administering a sobriety checkpoint:
A checkpoint in the United States

* Decision making must be at a supervisory level, rather than by officers in the field.
* A neutral formula must be used to select vehicles to be stopped, such as every vehicle or every third vehicle, rather than leaving it up the officer in the field.
* Primary consideration must be given to public and officer safety.
* The site should be selected by policy-making officials, based upon areas having a high incidence of drunk driving.
* Limitations on when the checkpoint is to be conducted and for how long, bearing in mind both effectiveness and intrusiveness.
* Warning lights and signs should be clearly visible.
* Length of detention of motorists should be minimized.
* Advance publicity is necessary to reduce the intrusiveness of the checkpoint and increase its deterrent effect."
Sobriety checkpoint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Even though the US Supreme Court said sobriety checkpoints are constitutional, ten states still do not allow them: Idaho, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Oregon, Rhode Island, Texas, Washington, Wisconsin, and Wyoming."
- Mothers Against Drunk Driving - Campaign to Eliminate Drunk Driving - Laws
 
I was asking about a checkpoint in which officers are not performing sobriety checks. Sobriety checkpoints are a specific example, narrowly allowed for reasons of public safety. Creating a similar roadblock for the purpose of catching illegal immigrants would not be allowed under the ruling.
 
I don't carry anything to prove my citizenship. But I do carry the documents to legally drive in this country. If I were to go through a DUI type checkpoint, (we have them regularly around here) and could not produce those documents, then I could, upon request, provide a valid birth certificate, passport, etc.

My point was that if you are caught for some other infraction, like driving without license and insurance, then it gives the LEO opening to also check immigration status.
So what if the cop wants you to prove your citizenship status? Are you prepared to require that we all start carrying copies of it with us now?
 
I'm sure quite a few 8th graders feel the same way about you.


Highly doubt it.. I'm not a part of either party that's looking to restrict their freedoms... or enforce my morals upon them.

Even if they were, that's okay... Nothing stops change.
 
How so?

Immigration is under federal law, correct?

And so is Drugs,Guns and other ittems but each Stater has there own Law pertaining to Illegals ect. ect. so the 10th Adm come's into play.
 
So what if the cop wants you to prove your citizenship status? Are you prepared to require that we all start carrying copies of it with us now?

We already do it's called Driver/State Lisc-Id. and all 50 State's require you to have one and in some states it's a fine if you don't have a photo id.
/
 
We already do it's called Driver/State Lisc-Id. and all 50 State's require you to have one and in some states it's a fine if you don't have a photo id.
/
A drivers license does not prove citizenship.

Duh.
 
A drivers license does not prove citizenship.

Duh.

No, however, not having one when stopped is a crime which opens you up to legal scrutiny. If you get caught driving without ID, then they are allowed to hold you pending verification if identity. If you can't verify your identity, then you are probably illegally in the country.
 
But, that's not the activity he was ordered to stop:

Exactly. you got it right. Illegal aliens are breaking the laws of, not only the United States, but also of the state of Arizona. If DHS doesn't enforce the Federal law, they are still powerless to stop the sheriff from enforcing Arizona law.
 
Exactly. you got it right. Illegal aliens are breaking the laws of, not only the United States, but also of the state of Arizona. If DHS doesn't enforce the Federal law, they are still powerless to stop the sheriff from enforcing Arizona law.

Then it's a good thing they aren't trying to do that. The OP's article is inaccurate and intentionally sensational - don't get sucked in

From my earlier post

Sheriff Joe Arpaio and the Maricopa County, Arizona, sheriff's department have had an agreement with the Department of Homeland Security since 2007 that allows his department to enforce federal immigration laws. But Arpaio says the federal agency is moving to revise the agreement to limit that power to checking the immigration status of inmates already in his Phoenix jail.
 
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