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Egypt set to ban Bhurka

kaya'08

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BBC NEWS | Middle East | Egypt cleric 'to ban full veils'

Egypt's highest Muslim authority has said he will issue a religious edict against the growing trend for full women's veils, known as the niqab.

Sheikh Mohamed Tantawi, dean of al-Azhar university, called full-face veiling a custom that has nothing to do with the Islamic faith.

Although most Muslim women in Egypt wear the Islamic headscarf, increasing numbers are adopting the niqab as well.

The practice is widely associated with more radical trends of Islam.

The niqab question reportedly arose when Sheikh Tantawi was visiting a girls' school in Cairo at the weekend and asked one of the students to remove her niqab.

The Egyptian newspaper al-Masri al-Yom quoted him expressing surprise at the girl's attire and telling her it was merely a tradition, with no connection to religion or the Koran.
 
I think if people wish to wear these things, they should be free to wear them. The bans are reactions to problems without addressing the actual problem.
 
You need to educate people and that is often hard when the main education source is religious schools who have a vested interest in keeping the status quo. We had the same problem in Christianity for centuries. It was only when governments took education away from the Church that things began to change.
 
Government is the solution then eh? No, what you said is ridiculous. It's when religion divorced itself from government that things got better. There's plenty of very good religious based education. Catholic school and the sorts which have major religious components, but also provide a good, well rounded education. It isn't religion itself which was the problem, it was theocracy which was the true villain.
 
Finally they're doing something against those ugly blankets that have nothing to do with religion.
 
There are exceptions though!

Exceptions:
1. MUST be worn when photographing for driver's license.
 
It'll be a shock to women who have worn these their whole lives, to suddenly not be allowed to wear them. Just when does the government get to decide what a person does and doesn't wear? The niqab isn't an issue of public safety so the government should stay out of it.
 
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Egypt cleric 'to ban full veils'



The niqab question reportedly arose when Sheikh Tantawi was visiting a girls' school in Cairo at the weekend and asked one of the students to remove her niqab.

The Egyptian newspaper al-Masri al-Yom quoted him expressing surprise at the girl's attire and telling her it was merely a tradition, with no connection to religion or the Koran.

No more beekeepers in Egypt? :mrgreen:
 
The niqab isn't an issue of public safety so the government should stay out of it.

Sexual discrimination in the work place is not a matter of public safety either. Should a private enterprise be free of government intervention if it wishes to discriminate against women? If not then why can private individuals be allowed to oppress women by forcing them to wear a bee keepers uniform since puberty?

Oh and for those asserting that it's a free choice, that is ridiculous, if these young girls refused to wear this oppressive garment they would be beaten or killed as evidenced by numerous examples even here in the west with a relatively moderate Muslim population.
 
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I think if people wish to wear these things, they should be free to wear them. The bans are reactions to problems without addressing the actual problem.
The term "free" is the rub. If the things are allowed, a lot of families will no doubt compel their women to wear them.

This is after all, a coutry, perhaps one of the major countries, where female circumcision is practiced.

Like so many things in government, people are trying to balance one freedom against another.
 
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The term "free" is the rub. If the things are allowed, a lot of families will no doubt compel their women to wear them.

This is after all, a coutry, perhaps one of the major countries, where female circumcision is practiced.

Like so many things in government, people are trying to balance one freedom against another.

And like so many things when you involve government is regulation of rights; it will fail. You're not addressing the core issue, you're merely endorsing a bandaid so we don't have to look at the core issue anymore. And in a way which empowers the government over the people....not really making progress on this one.
 
It'll be a shock to women who have worn these their whole lives, to suddenly not be allowed to wear them. Just when does the government get to decide what a person does and doesn't wear? The niqab isn't an issue of public safety so the government should stay out of it.
This isn't an Egyptian government edict. It's a religious fatwa by the highest Islamic authority in Egypt.
 
You need to educate people and that is often hard when the main education source is religious schools who have a vested interest in keeping the status quo. We had the same problem in Christianity for centuries. It was only when governments took education away from the Church that things began to change.

"only when governments took education away from the Church that things began to change". This is a bothersome statement. Are you saying that relions should not be allowed to have schools ? Or are you just saying that religions do not run schools in a very civilized way ?

A truly free society should have an option as to religious vs secular schools.
The parents should have evry right to send their children to either one as long as they are prepared to their own way ina religious just as for any private school.
 
"only when governments took education away from the Church that things began to change". This is a bothersome statement. Are you saying that relions should not be allowed to have schools ? Or are you just saying that religions do not run schools in a very civilized way ?

A truly free society should have an option as to religious vs secular schools.
The parents should have evry right to send their children to either one as long as they are prepared to their own way ina religious just as for any private school.

I think he was saying that religion should not have a monopoly on education in that their should be a large, free, and public option. I myself feel that religious indoctrination is a form of child abuse and would like to see the abolition of religion in general, but I wouldn't go so far as to support state enforcement of closing down religious indoctrination centers.
 
It'll be a shock to women who have worn these their whole lives, to suddenly not be allowed to wear them. Just when does the government get to decide what a person does and doesn't wear? The niqab isn't an issue of public safety so the government should stay out of it.

Yup !! the government needs to stay out of the niqab and people bedrooms!!

or is that the government needs to stay out of the bedroom is it's wearing a niqab lol !
 
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I think he was saying that religion should not have a monopoly on education in that their should be a large, free, and public option. I myself feel that religious indoctrination is a form of child abuse and would like to see the abolition of religion in general, but I wouldn't go so far as to support state enforcement of closing down religious indoctrination centers.

Well all schools are an indoctrination in one way or anther.
 
Not really. Saying that teaching evolution is akin to teaching creationism is faulty in that one is a fact and the other is fiction. Teaching facts is not a form of indoctrination.

yes teaching facts is not an indoctrination per se but teaching values is. That does not mean that certain values are wrong. Teaching patriotism, ethics, citizeship are a form of indoctrination but those are good values so no one in heir right mind should object!!!
 
"only when governments took education away from the Church that things began to change". This is a bothersome statement. Are you saying that relions should not be allowed to have schools ? Or are you just saying that religions do not run schools in a very civilized way ?

A truly free society should have an option as to religious vs secular schools.
The parents should have evry right to send their children to either one as long as they are prepared to their own way ina religious just as for any private school.

Historically, schooling was the domain of the church. Hence the church limited access to "selected subjects", usually the elite and left the masses in a state of stupidity. Stupid people are easier to convince that the earth is flat, and the woman who has an opinion is a witch.

I am not saying anything about religious run schools today in the Christian world although I am against those that brain wash their pupils with religious stupidity. Am I worried when religious bull**** is used in higher education and accepted as a "good school".. you bet I am, but so far this lunacy is only evident in the US. What worries me the most is when religious lunacy is being pushed in armed forces.. that scares the crap out of me.

However in the Islamic world, the poor parts of society has for the most part one source of education.. schools run by Islamic clergy. This is a problem, just as it was a problem 500+ years ago in Europe. This means that religion is taught above basic educational skills and things like logic and science. This is the single biggest way to keep people "dumb" and hence under the control of the religious fanatics. It is especially evident when it comes to women who are often denied any education at all, since religious schools often dont accept women because they believe they do not "deserve" an education.

As I stated, when society dumped the church, then society grew. Women were freed from the male dominated church inspired shackles and the masses were given (slowly) access to basic education. It is sad how many people forget how influential the Church once was and how it held back humanity for centuries.
 
Historically, schooling was the domain of the church. Hence the church limited access to "selected subjects", usually the elite and left the masses in a state of stupidity. Stupid people are easier to convince that the earth is flat, and the woman who has an opinion is a witch.

I am not saying anything about religious run schools today in the Christian world although I am against those that brain wash their pupils with religious stupidity. Am I worried when religious bull**** is used in higher education and accepted as a "good school".. you bet I am, but so far this lunacy is only evident in the US. What worries me the most is when religious lunacy is being pushed in armed forces.. that scares the crap out of me.

However in the Islamic world, the poor parts of society has for the most part one source of education.. schools run by Islamic clergy. This is a problem, just as it was a problem 500+ years ago in Europe. This means that religion is taught above basic educational skills and things like logic and science. This is the single biggest way to keep people "dumb" and hence under the control of the religious fanatics. It is especially evident when it comes to women who are often denied any education at all, since religious schools often dont accept women because they believe they do not "deserve" an education.

As I stated, when society dumped the church, then society grew. Women were freed from the male dominated church inspired shackles and the masses were given (slowly) access to basic education. It is sad how many people forget how influential the Church once was and how it held back humanity for centuries.

I will accept that the staTe of education in the Muslim world today is akin to that in EUROPE 500 years ago. There is a problem if and when religious schools are the only venue for education. And yes religions are in the business of growing in the number of beleivers so they will indoctrinate.

"THE CHURCH did indeed do some horrific things in the past in the name of GOD. In Western and central Europe the Church supported the feudal system. In the Ruissian Empire the Church told the serfs that it was the Czars right to freakin "own" them for all practical purposes.

There were areas of Europe where the local bishop considered it his right to deflower a woman who was about to be marrried.

Now the Muslims are doing some stupid assed things in the name of GO/ALLAH .
 
Historically, schooling was the domain of the church. Hence the church limited access to "selected subjects", usually the elite and left the masses in a state of stupidity. Stupid people are easier to convince that the earth is flat, and the woman who has an opinion is a witch.

I am not saying anything about religious run schools today in the Christian world although I am against those that brain wash their pupils with religious stupidity. Am I worried when religious bull**** is used in higher education and accepted as a "good school".. you bet I am, but so far this lunacy is only evident in the US. What worries me the most is when religious lunacy is being pushed in armed forces.. that scares the crap out of me.

However in the Islamic world, the poor parts of society has for the most part one source of education.. schools run by Islamic clergy. This is a problem, just as it was a problem 500+ years ago in Europe. This means that religion is taught above basic educational skills and things like logic and science. This is the single biggest way to keep people "dumb" and hence under the control of the religious fanatics. It is especially evident when it comes to women who are often denied any education at all, since religious schools often dont accept women because they believe they do not "deserve" an education.

As I stated, when society dumped the church, then society grew. Women were freed from the male dominated church inspired shackles and the masses were given (slowly) access to basic education. It is sad how many people forget how influential the Church once was and how it held back humanity for centuries.
Now let's your sources for everything you just said.
 
It'll be a shock to women who have worn these their whole lives, to suddenly not be allowed to wear them. Just when does the government get to decide what a person does and doesn't wear? The niqab isn't an issue of public safety so the government should stay out of it.

The ban doesnt actually have a problem with whats being worn...but the forces behind why its being worn. Its also a radical interpretation of Islam, and though it may not address the root of the problem unless we intend to chuck every Muslim into a rehab centre, its more than enough to get your discerning Bhurka wearer out of the country, unless you intend to welcome such types rather then have them out. The same ban was implemented in the 20's during the rise of the Secular Republic of Turkey under Ataturk after the collapse of the Ottoman empire, well before the Western Euros thought of doing it, and it has contributed greatly to Turkeys efforts of seperating and moderating religion in society. It doesnt violate any UN human rights laws and nothing states on paper that it is unacceptable to ban such a thing.
 
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BBC NEWS | Middle East | Egypt cleric 'to ban full veils'



The niqab question reportedly arose when Sheikh Tantawi was visiting a girls' school in Cairo at the weekend and asked one of the students to remove her niqab.

The Egyptian newspaper al-Masri al-Yom quoted him expressing surprise at the girl's attire and telling her it was merely a tradition, with no connection to religion or the Koran.


I think that having the religious hierarchy speak out against this practice is what is needed.
 
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