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ElBaradei says nuclear Israel number one threat to Mideast: report

SE102 said:
I'm sorry I frankly, having studied nuclear deterrence theory think that Iran has the right to deter a nuclear strike from Israel.
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This is sound only if you can show rthat Iran is in danger of any such strike.
Under what conditions would Israel nuke Iran?
If Israel is a threat, why hasnt it used those nukes?

Two bad countries with bad nukes is better than one bad country with a nuke.
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Israel is no more a "bad" country thatn the UK.

I suppose its a good thing France has nukes too, else there'd be no deterrent to the UK nuking them.
 
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SE102 said:
I'm sorry I frankly, having studied nuclear deterrence theory think that Iran has the right to deter a nuclear strike from Israel. This will keep either side from launching a nuke. Iran will not be able to launch a nuke without a guaranteed strike by a nuclear Israel. Neither side can fire. Two bad countries with bad nukes is better than one bad country with a nuke.( I studied it years ago Im prolly rusty but the concept is basic ) Sounds to me like alot of things people say around you probably strikes you as support for terrorists.
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lol Iran was founded on the principle of the second coming of the 12th Iman and that nationalism = idle worship.

"We do not worship Iran, we worship Allah. For patriotism is another name for paganism. I say let this land [Iran] burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world." -- Ayatollah Khomeini

Ya MAD will work real well when one of the players is seeking martyrdom for the sake of a religion. :roll:
 
Gardener said:
while providing none whatsoever yourself, I might point out.

RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAL
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[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterrence_theory]Deterrence theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Hope you dont think wikipedia is a bastion of liberal bias or anything.


Anyways your point is extremely strong. are these religious leaders to be trusted? I doubt that, behind the doors, the decisions would be left to them, they may have a great say but im sure authority and information are spread across a bureaucracy.
 
Goobieman said:
This is sound only if you can show rthat Iran is in danger of any such strike.
Under what conditions would Israel nuke Iran?
If Israel is a threat, why hasnt it used those nukes?

Israel is no more a "bad" country thatn the UK.

I suppose its a good thing France has nukes too, else there'd be no deterrent to the UK nuking them.
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This is completely sound, acquisition of the methods and infrastructure to deploy nukes to other countries is implied intent to use them under a particular circumstance. Thats just how it works, i didnt write the rules of how states interact.

I hear in england they've always been jealous of the food in france.
And Israel is an apartheid state, that is certainly un-good.

It will not use nukes unless a nation is actually taking steps to invade it. Hence, deterrence.
 
SE102 said:
This is completely sound...
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Only if you show that Iran is in danger of any such strike.
Under what conditions would Israel nuke Iran?
What indicates that Israel is an offensive nuclear threat?
What indicates that Israeli nukes need to be deterred?
If Israel is a threat, why hasnt it used those nukes?
 
SE102 said:
Deterrence theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hope you dont think wikipedia is a bastion of liberal bias or anything.


.
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I support liberalism. I hope you don't think the Mullahs are a bastion of liberal bias or anything. :roll:

As to the Mad doctrine, I was studying this at the univeristy level in 1972. Kissinger was quite the rage, then.

thanks for the link, though :2wave:
 
Only if you show that Iran is in danger of any such strike.
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It's really not, the nukes are just pointed in their direction.

Under what conditions would Israel nuke Iran?
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If threatened with invasion.

What indicates that Israel is an offensive nuclear threat?
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Its possession of an overkill load of nukes with the capability to eliminate every neighbor it has. Possession is the threat.

What indicates that Israeli nukes need to be deterred?
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So a racist, expansionist, zionist state whose military, that has shown little to no problem with committing warcrimes against civilians cannot be allowed to strike under any circumstance.

If Israel is a threat, why hasnt it used those nukes?
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The Soviets were a threat. Why didn't they use them? Oh yeah, they were defensive. Hrrm.

...
Anyways Gardener, you seem like a groovy guy.
...
 
Vader said:
He's attacking Israel instead of doing his job. That shows support for terrorists. He's attacking Israel instead of working with to disarm Iran. That makes him a terrorist.

ElBaradei CANNOT be allowed to muddy the message about the threat posed by Iran's nuclear program. He is trying to do exactly that! Therefore, he clearly has sided with the terrorist government of Iran. This makes his a terrorist.
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God, you make me wonder if you actually read your own posts. He's not attacking Israel. Attacking and critiquing are hardly the same thing. Stop spinning things with massive amount of emotional hyperbole. Thanks in advance.
 
SE102 said:
I'm sorry I frankly, having studied nuclear deterrence theory think that Iran has the right to deter a nuclear strike from Israel. This will keep either side from launching a nuke. Iran will not be able to launch a nuke without a guaranteed strike by a nuclear Israel. Neither side can fire. Two bad countries with bad nukes is better than one bad country with a nuke.( I studied it years ago Im prolly rusty but the concept is basic ) Sounds to me like alot of things people say around you probably strikes you as support for terrorists.
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If Iran gets nukes, terrorists will get nukes. Iran CANNOT be trusted.
 
Vader said:
WRONG.

It IS a racist term.

It's also a violation of the martial law standard created by CaptainCourtesy.
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Please explain why zionist is a racist term. The definition has nothing to do with race:

Main Entry: Zi·on·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈzī-ə-ˌni-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1896

: an international movement originally for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel

— Zi·on·ist \-nist\ adjective or noun

— Zi·on·is·tic \ˌzī-ə-ˈnis-tik\ adjective
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SE102 said:
So a racist, expansionist, zionist state whose military, that has shown little to no problem with committing warcrimes against civilians cannot be allowed to strike under any circumstance.
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Besides Zionist, I do not understand how any of this is related to the mentioned state.
 
SE102 said:
So a racist, expansionist, zionist state whose military, that has shown little to no problem with committing warcrimes against civilians cannot be allowed to strike under any circumstance.
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This is -exactly- what I was looking for.
The REAL porblem isn't Israeli nukes, its the mere existence of Israel itself.

Thanks for playing.
 
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Goobieman said:
This is -exactly- what I was looking for.
The REAL porblem isn't Israeli nukes, its the mere existence of Israel itself.

Thanks for playing.
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Criticizing Israel's government and how it acts, is not the same as having a problem with the existence of Israel. I'm not saying SE102 comments are right, but they are aimed at the government of Israel (right or wrong), not the existence of Israel.

Many conservatives have a problem with how Chavez and his government act, does that mean they hate the existence of Venezuela? Of course not.
 
TheNextEra said:
Criticizing Israel's government and how it acts, is not the same as having a problem with the existence of Israel. I'm not saying SE102 comments are right, but they are aimed at the government of Israel (right or wrong), not the existence of Israel.
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Criticism is not criticism if it is not based on truth.
Beyond that, his claims are not merely aimed at the Israeli government, read his posts more carefully, you'll find many claims such as "the IDF are a bunch of racist kids who kill Palestinians for fun" and stuff like that.
One needs to separate criticism from demonizing and hate spreading if he is willing to maintain the legitimacy of the criticism.
 
Apocalypse said:
Criticism is not criticism if it is not based on truth.
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Well then using that logic most of the "criticisms" from the right about Obama aren't really criticisms because they aren't based on truth either, but that is for another thread.

Apocalypse said:
Beyond that, his claims are not merely aimed at the Israeli government, read his posts more carefully, you'll find many claims such as "the IDF are a bunch of racist kids who kill Palestinians for fun" and stuff like that.
One needs to separate criticism from demonizing and hate spreading if he is willing to maintain the legitimacy of the criticism.
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Complaints against the government or military (right or wrong) are still not against the existence of Israel. Sorry but your basis that he is against the existence of Israel is false given his comments.

You may not like his comments, but your conclusion simply is not true given the previous comments.
 
Goobieman said:
This is -exactly- what I was looking for.
The REAL porblem isn't Israeli nukes, its the mere existence of Israel itself.

Thanks for playing.
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How have i implicated that its the existence of israel itself that is a problem.

YOU may think that.

YOU can go ahead thinking anyone who thinks similarly thinks that. You're just a oversensitive reactionist on your side.

Israel commits warcrimes against civilians on a daily (maybe weekly or monthly) basis. A FACT you need to deal with.

It must be your precious beautiful dove you cant stand to see get dirty.

Shooting at civilians is precisely what many IDF soldiers do. It's probably not fun, its more likely in the stratum of a hate crime.

Thanks for playing... badly.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mJp5d3ffP8"]YouTube - Israeli T-shirts mock Gaza killings - 23 March 2009[/ame]
 
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Vader said:
WRONG.

It IS a racist term.

It's also a violation of the martial law standard created by CaptainCourtesy.
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Again, it is not a racist term.

Zionist is a term often heard, but it's not always understood. Many people assume that to be a Zionist, someone must also be Jewish, or conversely, that all Jews are Zionists. This is not the case.

It appears that the term Zionist was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum, a Viennese scholar and intellectual. He used Zionist and Zionism to refer to what was basically a political movement, one that would result not only in the return of the Jewish people to their ancestral homeland in Palestine, but a return with political sovereignty.

So, again, stop all of the ignorant hyperbole and start thinking things through before you post. I grow weary of watching nearly everyone of your posts look like this.
 
TheNextEra said:
Complaints against the government or military (right or wrong) are still not against the existence of Israel. Sorry but your basis that he is against the existence of Israel is false given his comments.

You may not like his comments, but your conclusion simply is not true given the previous comments.
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Where did I make the conclusion that he is against the entire existence of Israel(Something that is very possible nevertheless)?
Either point me to where I've made that conclusion or refrain from making false assumptions.

What I was saying, and I will repeat it, is that he is not merely against the Israeli policies (Army and government), but he is against Israelis themselves. ("IDF soldiers are a bunch of racist evil kids" = a cutting proof that he is not merely against the policies the army takes but the soldiers themselves)
 
EgoffTib said:
Again, it is not a racist term.

Zionist is a term often heard, but it's not always understood. Many people assume that to be a Zionist, someone must also be Jewish, or conversely, that all Jews are Zionists. This is not the case.

It appears that the term Zionist was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum, a Viennese scholar and intellectual. He used Zionist and Zionism to refer to what was basically a political movement, one that would result not only in the return of the Jewish people to their ancestral homeland in Palestine, but a return with political sovereignty.

So, again, stop all of the ignorant hyperbole and start thinking things through before you post. I grow weary of watching nearly everyone of your posts look like this.
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I am an Irish-Amercan zionist, myself!
 
SE102 said:
Israel commits warcrimes against civilians on a daily (maybe weekly or monthly) basis. A FACT you need to deal with.
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Fact is that is not a fact.
Shooting at civilians is precisely what many IDF soldiers do. It's probably not fun, its more likely in the stratum of a hate crime.
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Venezuelan soldiers seem to be murdering civilians on a daily basis, what is your feelings towards it?
Did you know that they sneak up into rooms of civilians at night and slice their throat while they're sleeping?

Two sides can play that way, I merely criticize Venezuela's actions. ;)
 
Apocalypse said:
What I was saying, and I will repeat it, is that he is not merely against the Israeli policies (Army and government), but he is against Israelis themselves. ("IDF soldiers are a bunch of racist evil kids" = a cutting proof that he is not merely against the policies the army takes but the soldiers themselves)
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Soldiers are controlled by the government policies. Right or wrong he is complaining about the GOVERNMENT.

Either way a claim was made that he was complaining about the existence of Israel. That claim is false.
 
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