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Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan?

donc said:
What is one to think when you put something like that into a thread? It only points to the fact that the republican party has no plan, other than let the 47 million that die each year due to the lack of healtcare to continue to die.
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47 million people die each year due to the lack of health care?
:rofl
 
Goobieman said:
47 million people die each year due to the lack of health care?
:rofl
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:lol: Well,of course...We have tens of thousands just dropping dead in the streets every day because Big Brother isnt in charge of health care.
 
Strucky said:
:lol: Well,of course...We have tens of thousands just dropping dead in the streets every day because Big Brother isnt in charge of health care.
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That's ~89 people per minute!
And THAT'S just from the lack of health care!!
 
donc said:
Sure I have a point, the subject of the thread is "Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan?"and you post a link to “Prevalence of Overweight and Obesity Among Adults:United States, 2003-2004".

What is one to think when you put something like that into a thread? It only points to the fact that the republican party has no plan, other than let the 47 million that die each year due to the lack of healtcare to continue to die.

with this attude it knda looks like the Senator from the state of Florida hit the nail on the head when he said the Republican Healthcare Plan is “Die Quickly”.
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47 million a year due to a lack of health care????

That's pretty good since only 2.5 million die from all causes each year. :lol:
 
Gibberish said:
Last I read this wasn't welfare. Citizens had to actually pay into the program. Do you have a link that suggests otherwise?
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Do you have a link that suggests that Universal Healthcare for EVERYONE will not be subsidized by those who earn a lot and free to those who do not and for illegal aliens?
 
donc said:
Sure I have a point, the subject of the thread is "Dems taunt GOP: Where's your health care plan?"and you post a link to “Prevalence of Overweight and Obesity Among Adults:United States, 2003-2004".

What is one to think when you put something like that into a thread?
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That the easiest solution to our health care problems is a simple change in the average American diet and lifestyle. I thought that was pretty obvious.

It only points to the fact that the republican party has no plan...
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Good thing I'm not a Republican.

...other than let the 47 million that die each year due to the lack of healtcare to continue to die.
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Are you trying to claim that 47 million Americans die each year because they lack access to health care?

...with this attude it knda looks like the Senator from the state of Florida hit the nail on the head when he said the Republican Healthcare Plan is “Die Quickly”.
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Obesity-related health complications are, in the vast majority of cases, entirely preventable. I have little sympathy for people who willingly and knowingly engage in unhealthy lifestyles; especially when their lifestyle places an unnecessary burden on an already strained health care system.
 
That the easiest solution to our health care problems is a simple change in the average American diet and lifestyle. I thought that was pretty obvious.
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Any suggestions how to do that?
 
Why couldn't they just list the problems with our health care system and address each one individually?

If you're running around giving free health care to all the illegal immigrants things can't be that dire! You can't have both social services AND free and open immigration.

Big free democratic countries should never attempt something so big government. It could go wrong and ruin us.

Baby steps. Baby steps.
 
sazerac said:
Why couldn't they just list the problems with our health care system and address each one individually?

If you're running around giving free health care to all the illegal immigrants things can't be that dire! You can't have both social services AND free and open immigration.

Big free democratic countries should never attempt something so big government. It could go wrong and ruin us.

Baby steps. Baby steps.
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The illegal immigrant thing is a lie, pay it no heed.
 
Goobieman said:
47 million people die each year due to the lack of health care?
:rofl
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Yea your right Gooby, I missed that one by about three zeros +. :2wave:

<Research released this week in the American Journal of Public Health estimates that 45,000 deaths per year in the United States are associated with the lack of health insurance. If a person is uninsured, "it means you're at mortal risk," said one of the authors, Dr. David Himmelstein, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.>

45,000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance - CNN.com
 
the makeout hobo said:
Any suggestions how to do that?
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It's on the individual to make that choice for themself. If they choose not to change their lifestyle then they'll probably die or become ill. Not my problem.
 
Ethereal said:
It's on the individual to make that choice for themself. If they choose not to change their lifestyle then they'll probably die or become ill. Not my problem.
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But since we are talking about changing society as a whole, any suggestions there?
 
quote Ethereal

That the easiest solution to our health care problems is a simple change in the average American diet and lifestyle. I thought that was pretty obvious.
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Gasp…you advocating the government control of our food supply? Government telling us what to eat? :shock:

Good thing I'm not a Republican.
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Yet you seem to agree with everything that they advocate…amazing.


Are you trying to claim that 47 million Americans die each year because they lack access to health care?
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No that was a f*** ** on my part the correct number is 45 thousand.:3oops:


< Research released this week in the American Journal of Public Health estimates that 45,000 deaths per year in the United States are associated with the lack of health insurance. If a person is uninsured, "it means you're at mortal risk," said one of the authors, Dr. David Himmelstein, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.>



Obesity-related health complications are, in the vast majority of cases, entirely preventable. I have little sympathy for people who willingly and knowingly engage in unhealthy lifestyles; especially when their lifestyle places an unnecessary burden on an already strained health care system.
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So in your opinion how many of the 45 thousand deaths are attributed to being overweight, also would we use the “BMI index” when considering someone overweight?

Which begs another question, could/should the insurance companies refuse (under preexisting conditions) you if you didn’t fit into their “BMI index”?

A disclaimer here, I might be considered obese according to the “BMI index” in spite of the fact that I have less bodyfat than the normal…ahem, sixty plus year old truck driver.
 
the makeout hobo said:
But since we are talking about changing society as a whole, any suggestions there?
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I thought I already gave a suggestion, i.e., stop living such terribly unhealthy lifestyles.

If you're asking me to go further than making a suggestion to free individuals then you're barking up the wrong tree. People have the right to make choices about how they live their life; some of the choices they make could very well lead to death or injury; this is what we crazy libertarians like to call "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Enjoying those rights is sometimes dangerous, but it's better than the alternative....
 
donc said:
Gasp…you advocating the government control of our food supply? Government telling us what to eat? :shock:
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Nope.

Yet you seem to agree with everything that they advocate…amazing.
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You know everything I believe? Are you psychic?

No that was a f*** ** on my part the correct number is 45 thousand.:3oops:
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I guess you were so used to presenting that false figure of "47 million Americans uninsured" that it just slipped out on accident.

So in your opinion how many of the 45 thousand deaths are attributed to being overweight, also would we use the “BMI index” when considering someone overweight?

Which begs another question, could/should the insurance companies refuse (under preexisting conditions) you if you didn’t fit into their “BMI index”?

A disclaimer here, I might be considered obese according to the “BMI index” in spite of the fact that I have less bodyfat than the normal…ahem, sixty plus year old truck driver.
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If 66% of a population are overweight / obese, and that same population has forty-five thousand deaths attributable to lack of insurance, you could reasonable infer than 29,700 of the people who died were overweight or obese.
 
donc said:
Yea your right Gooby, I missed that one by about three zeros +. :2wave:

<Research released this week in the American Journal of Public Health estimates that 45,000 deaths per year in the United States are associated with the lack of health insurance. If a person is uninsured, "it means you're at mortal risk," said one of the authors, Dr. David Himmelstein, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.>

45,000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance - CNN.com
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How Common Are Medical Mistakes? - WrongDiagnosis.com

44,000 to 98,000 deaths annually from medical errors (Institute of Medicine)
Seems to me that having health insurance is more dangerous than not having it.
 
donc said:
Yea your right Gooby, I missed that one by about three zeros +. :2wave:

<Research released this week in the American Journal of Public Health estimates that 45,000 deaths per year in the United States are associated with the lack of health insurance. If a person is uninsured, "it means you're at mortal risk," said one of the authors, Dr. David Himmelstein, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.>

45,000 American deaths associated with lack of insurance - CNN.com
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How many people die due to medical errors?
 
How Common Are Medical Mistakes? - WrongDiagnosis.com

Various studies have been performed about medical errors. A phone survey by the National Patient Safety Foundation found that 42% of people believed they had experienced a medical error personally or to a relative or friend. The Institute of Medicine (IOM) reports on two studies estimating the hospital deaths due to medical errors at 44,000 to 98,000 annually, which would place medical errors in the top ten causes of death in the USA. Barbara Starfield's article in JAMA places the estimates even higher, citing a total of 225,000 deaths due to iatrogenic causes, which would place health-caused deaths as the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA. Holland et al (1997) estimates as many as 1 million patients are injured while in the hospital and approximately 180,000 die as a result, with the majority due to medication adverse reactions.
 
QUOTE=Ethereal
I guess you were so used to presenting that false figure of "47 million Americans uninsured" that it just slipped out on accident.
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Nah, I used it "Correctly" on 10-02-09,in this thread like I said it was just a screw up on my part nothing else.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/health-care/57548-why-public-health-option-when.html


If 66% of a population are overweight / obese, and that same population has forty-five thousand deaths attributable to lack of insurance, you could reasonable infer than 29,700 of the people who died were overweight or obese.
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YOU probably would find it reasonable to infer that 29,700 obese people die every year because they’re obese, anyone else would say that surely uncontrolled diabetes should inter the equation somewhere.

Considering that 13 % of our population age 20 and older has diabetes. Are you implying that every diabetic is obese?


Kinda makes you wonder what percent of the DP,ers are diabetics doesn’t it? Most of them are most likely sushi eating libs though. :roll:


I know, I know, your knee is jerking, so I will state that obesity is a major cause of type two diabetes…and it is easily controlled when someone has access to diabetic supplies, which cost mucho bucks, which someone without insurance will skimp on.


As Wilfred Brimley says "check your blood sugar and check it often”,. He might add "if you have insurance check it often, if not check it when you can afford it". :2wave:
 
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