• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Guns allowed in Arizona bars starting Wednesday

stevenb said:
Actually, up until the point that he kicks me off of his "property" that's open to the public.. I have every right to be there.
Click to expand...

Nobody has the "right" to enter another person's private property, rather, they have the privilege of entering, and that privilege can be rescinded at any time for whatever reason.
 
Ethereal said:
Nobody has the "right" to enter another person's private property, rather, they have the privilege of entering, and that privilege can be rescinded at any time for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

Not quite true. If I own a lunch counter I can not deny service to people for whatever reason.
 
Last edited:
winston53660 said:
Not quite true. If I own a luch counter I can not deny service to people for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

That's because our government has a penchant for passing unconstitutional laws.
 
Ethereal said:
Nobody has the "right" to enter another person's private property, rather, they have the privilege of entering, and that privilege can be rescinded at any time for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

They're business while private property is a public business.

Unless they have a sign on the door specifically forbidding entrance... then I have a right to be in that "public place" until they decide that they no longer want me to be there.

If you're going to open a business, you're turning your private property into a public location.. and it is up to you to decide who can or cannot visit. It's not up to me as a CONSUMER / Potential customer to figure out their intentions magically.

winston53660 said:
Not quite true. If I own a lunch counter I can not deny service to people for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

Yes, actually you can.. and no, it's not unconstitutional.

Ethereal said:
That's because our government has a penchant for passing unconstitutional laws.
Click to expand...


And, that is true.
 
stevenb said:
They're business while private property is a public business.

Unless they have a sign on the door specifically forbidding entrance... then I have a right to be in that "public place" until they decide that they no longer want me to be there.

If you're going to open a business, you're turning your private property into a public location.. and it is up to you to decide who can or cannot visit. It's not up to me as a CONSUMER / Potential customer to figure out their intentions magically.
Click to expand...

So long as we can agree that a business owner shouldn't need a "State-approved sign" in order to kick someone off his property I think we're square.
 
Ethereal said:
So long as we can agree that a business owner shouldn't need a "State-approved sign" in order to kick someone off his property I think we're square.
Click to expand...

**** no.


I think the owner should be able to kick anyone off their property / out of their business for any reason that they seem fit.

They pay their taxes, they pay their fees and overhead costs to run the company the way they want. If they want to kick white people out of their store, ****ing a... go for it!

They just need to be ready for the fallout that will come from their actions.
 
winston53660 said:
So would waving a gun around in a bar be okay even though it scares the **** out patrons?
Click to expand...

is it not illegal to brandish a firearm? it is in my state.
 
stevenb said:
**** no.


I think the owner should be able to kick anyone off their property / out of their business for any reason that they seem fit.

They pay their taxes, they pay their fees and overhead costs to run the company the way they want. If they want to kick white people out of their store, ****ing a... go for it!

They just need to be ready for the fallout that will come from their actions.
Click to expand...

Oh, well, I thought you said:

stevenb said:
You're right he doesn't.. but if he wants to get bitchy about someone exercising their second amendment rights in his business.. then he does.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I misunderstood...:2razz:
 
Ethereal said:
Oh, well, I thought you said:



Perhaps I misunderstood...:2razz:
Click to expand...

I mean it like this.


If I'm going to business A with my gun.. if there are no signs on the doors notifying me that I'm not allowed to be there with my gun.

Business A owner can get bitchy with me all he wants and ask me to leave.. and I will.

But, unless they make their intentions known at the doors.. it is not my responsibility to research their positions / allowed attire etc..etc.

Follow?
 
stevenb said:
I mean it like this.


If I'm going to business A with my gun.. if there are no signs on the doors notifying me that I'm not allowed to be there with my gun.

Business A owner can get bitchy with me all he wants and ask me to leave.. and I will.

But, unless they make their intentions known at the doors.. it is not my responsibility to research their positions / allowed attire etc..etc.

Follow?
Click to expand...

Ah, yes. I understand...:)
 
winston53660 said:
Fine try denying service at the lunch counter simply because a person is black.
Click to expand...

I think it still happens quite regularly in the south.


Funny thing is, there are racist black business owners who do the same thing to other races in the south.

And... in AZ any business can refuse service to you for any reason.. of which they don't have to provide.

gee.
 
winston53660 said:
Brandishing is a fairly subjective term.
Click to expand...

No, no it's not.

If I display my firearm in an aggressive fashion or otherwise point / wave it around..


That's clear cut brandishing.

My shirt riding up and exposing the handle of my HOLSTERED firearm is not brandishing.


jeez, how hard is that to figure out?
 
emdash said:
is it not illegal to brandish a firearm? it is in my state.
Click to expand...

ok stevenb and Zyphlin already mentioned this, my bad

winston53660 said:
Brandishing is a fairly subjective term.
Click to expand...

not really...

www.mycaliforniadefenselawyer.com said:
If you draw or show a firearm, loaded or unloaded, in an angry or threatening manner or during a fight, you may be charged with this offense that is typically classified as a misdemeanor.

If the offense took place on public property and the firearm is a pistol or some other firearm easily concealed, you will serve a minimum of 3 months in jail and up to one year. However, if not committed in a public place, you face 30 days to one year in jail.
Click to expand...
 
stevenb said:
And... in AZ any business can refuse service to you for any reason.. of which they don't have to provide.

gee.
Click to expand...

Uhmmm do you even know why I used the example of the lunch counter?
 
winston53660 said:
Uhmmm do you even know why I used the example of the lunch counter?
Click to expand...

To be honest, I could care less... Forcing a business to service customers that it doesn't want to is unconstitutional.
 
stevenb said:
To be honest, I could care less... Forcing a business to service customers that it doesn't want to is unconstitutional.
Click to expand...

Unless they are a minority of course...
 
stevenb said:
To be honest, I could care less... Forcing a business to service customers that it doesn't want to is unconstitutional.
Click to expand...

Id suggest you look at the 14th amendment to the Constitution. Also look into Rosa Parks. As well as the lunch counter issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom