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Guns allowed in Arizona bars starting Wednesday

ewm90 said:
Yes I could cross the street and get hit by a car that dose not mean its ok to dance on a rode with on coming traffic.

We do have laws to keep us safe and when those laws are removed people star getting hart.
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The purpose of the government isn't to keep us "safe", it's to guarantee and proliferate the innate and inalienable rights of the individual. Law isn't good just by virtue of existence.
 
Ikari said:
The purpose of the government isn't to keep us "safe", it's to guarantee and proliferate the innate and inalienable rights of the individual. Law isn't good just by virtue of existence.
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And the reason why we do that is to protect the citizens of a country or community.
 
ewm90 said:
And the reason why we do that is to protect the citizens of a country or community.
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The reason we do that is to advance freedom and liberty. While there are some things which can be done to help keep people safer, that cannot come at the cost of rights. That's against the cause of freedom and liberty.
 
Well this government is run by the people for the people.

And all the people I know personally wont a government that keeps us safe. Why have a government such as we have if not to keep us safe why not have a dictator how can do that much better.

stevenb said:
We have laws to control us, and our behavior.


Not to keep us safe.

Then we have laws that only exist to generate revenue... but that's another conversation entirely.


And if you'd like to go dance in the road / play in traffic.. who am I to stop you?
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Ikari said:
The reason we do that is to advance freedom and liberty. While there are some things which can be done to help keep people safer, that cannot come at the cost of rights. That's against the cause of freedom and liberty.
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Yes and why do we do this... To help other people, to keep them safe.
 
ewm90 said:
Well this government is run by the people for the people.

And all the people I know personally wont a government that keeps us safe. Why have a government such as we have if not to keep us safe why not have a dictator how can do that butch better.
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There is no better way to ensure a dictator than to go along the "safe" route.

This Republic created by the founders is based on the rights and liberties of the individual. While of the people, for the people, by the people; the government is still forbidden from doing certain things; such as infringing upon the rights of the individual.
 
ewm90 said:
Yes and why do we do this... To help other people, to keep them safe.
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No, it's to proliferate freedom. Free isn't safe. Free has never been safe, free will never be safe. That's the end all be all. Free is inherently dangerous. So obviously we aren't doing this to "keep them safe", but rather we do this to keep them free.

You want safe, move to China. You're nice and safe so long as you don't speak out against the government.
 
Ikari said:
The purpose of the government isn't to keep us "safe", it's to guarantee and proliferate the innate and inalienable rights of the individual. Law isn't good just by virtue of existence.
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The purpose of government is though...to maintain the defense of this nation. Correct?
 
ewm90 said:
Yes and why do we do this... To help other people, to keep them safe.
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Government exists to protect your rights from those that would impose upon them. In a free society, in pursuit of this, government cannot act until someone actually imposes on those rights.

Do you want to live in a free society, or a police state?
 
Ikari said:
There is no better way to ensure a dictator than to go along the "safe" route.

This Republic created by the founders is based on the rights and liberties of the individual. While of the people, for the people, by the people; the government is still forbidden from doing certain things; such as infringing upon the rights of the individual.
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Was said when our country was first created...

"We've fought to give you guys a representative republic, as long as you guys can keep it."

Too many people sacrifice liberty for false safety. :(
 
Charles Martel said:
The purpose of government is though...to maintain the defense of this nation. Correct?
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One thing which they do is common defense of our soveriegnty. But the Republic was established, with all it's inefficient divisions of power, to restrict and control government so that it may not act against the rights and liberties of the individual.
 
ewm90 said:
Well this government is run by the people for the people.

And all the people I know personally wont a government that keeps us safe. Why have a government such as we have if not to keep us safe why not have a dictator how can do that much better.
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Personally Id rather be in charge of my own safety not the government.
 
stevenb said:
Was said when our country was first created...

"We've fought to give you guys a representative republic, as long as you guys can keep it."

Too many people sacrifice liberty for false safety. :(
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My favorite Franklin quote is when he was asked by a reporter after the delegation came up with the Constitution as to what we have. He responded, "A Republic, if you can keep it". I like it and remind myself everyday that it is our responsibility to keep the Republic. To fight for those ideals the founders had, to do what we can to keep the Republic intact and thriving.
 
relay most dictators to day or in the minority and walk harmful paths to keep in power.

Take north korea for example the only resign why they still are is because they would blow up soil if they where challenged and if there canons where stopped there government would be opened to attack.

Kim jon il stays in power because the military wont him if they did not like him he could be replaced not very safe.

If the people got wind of what what happening they would over thowe the government not very safe.

Ikari said:
There is no better way to ensure a dictator than to go along the "safe" route.

This Republic created by the founders is based on the rights and liberties of the individual. While of the people, for the people, by the people; the government is still forbidden from doing certain things; such as infringing upon the rights of the individual.
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winston53660 said:
Personally Id rather be in charge of my own safety not the government.
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North Korea is a good place for that. People there don't look to happy.
 
ewm90 said:
North Korea is a good place for that. People there don't look to happy.
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What? No it's not. Quit being stupid. North Korea, everything is defined and carried out by the State. The people there have no say in their own lives. If anything, it's the scenario you're trying to push us towards. It's the exact opposite of what we call for.
 
Ikari said:
One thing which they do is common defense of our soveriegnty. But the Republic was established, with all it's inefficient divisions of power, to restrict and control government so that it may not act against the rights and liberties of the individual.
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Way too many people do not understand that the inefficiency was fully intended.
 
Harshaw said:
Way too many people do not understand that the inefficiency was fully intended.
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Which is why I am always suspicious of laws and procedures which are supposed to make government respond faster and more efficiently. I like the inefficient, reactive (not proactive) form of government. Give up some safety, but you gain a lot of defense against tyranny.
 
Ikari said:
What? No it's not. Quit being stupid. North Korea, everything is defined and carried out by the State. The people there have no say in their own lives. If anything, it's the scenario you're trying to push us towards. It's the exact opposite of what we call for.
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Most people don't see the government until they try to live the country or do some thing subversive.

People there died after the tsunami that hit indonesia him them the government actually stopped other countries from offering aid. People died hounders every day from lack of care. If that what you are looking for.

Thats what I am getting from what you are saying.
 
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ewm90 said:
Most people don't see the government until they try to live the country or do some thing subversive.

People there died after the tsunami that hit indonesia him them the government actually stopped other countries from offering aid. People died hounders every day from lack of care. If that what you are looking for.

Thats what I am getting from what you are saying.
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You know... we denied aid from other countries when Katrina hit.. Right?
 
ewm90 said:
North Korea is a good place for that. People there don't look to happy.
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Wow that was from left field. I bet if you get the official line line from the NK goverment they would say they fully protect the safety of their citizens.
 
stevenb said:
You know... we denied aid from other countries when Katrina hit.. Right?
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actually many countries sent aid. Including hugo choves dictator.
 
ewm90 said:
Most people don't see the government until they try to live the country or do some thing subversive.

People there died after the tsunami that hit indonesia him them the government actually stopped other countries from offering aid. People died hounders every day from lack of care. If that what you are looking for.

Thats what I am getting from what you are saying.
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If that's what you are getting from what I am saying, then you have absolutely no idea what it is that I'm saying. I would suggest you go back and read slower, try to actually read and understand the words. Because nothing I have written have suggested anything close to what you're trying to pretend and lie about me saying.
 
winston53660 said:
Wow that was from left field. I bet if you get the official line line from the NK goverment they would say they fully protect the safety of their citizens.
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O yes I am a north korean secrete agent lol.
 
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